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rebel
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« on: October 31, 2009, 23:25:41 pm » |
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I was wandering how to build a little vw powered dragster Gene Berg style. Rear engine, trans behind the driver.
How to design a frame and front and rear axle? Is front and rear rigid? or there should be some kind of suspension?
Besides it has to be as light as possible... Any ideas, pictures, drawing, whatever?
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vwcab
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 23:52:24 pm » |
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Hi Rebel,do you mean something like this?Then you should pm "ottobros" here on the lounge,
these guys build this dragster.....
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'72 standard käfer
'74 cal-look project
'78 1303 cabrio
'12 Triumph street triple
ESCARABAJO's CALIENTEs
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rebel
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2009, 00:43:24 am » |
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Yeah, I've seen it at the EBI3, but did not know who's behind it.
Thanks, man!
BTW:
Does have anybody any info about the historic flat four powered dragsters?
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 00:45:00 am by rebel »
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speedwell
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2009, 00:54:54 am » |
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rebel
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2009, 01:24:01 am » |
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Fabian, there is a lot of info in the scans I've got from you of course  I'm lookin for more technical data rather - more like how was the front axle made? How was the rear supesion engineered? It is hard to guess from the pictures in old magazines PS: Fabs, I did not read/translate more than 10% of material I've got from you It is huge amount of scans I hardly am aware of what actually is there! It's enough for a year of work or more for me! I've asked my clubmates for help in translatons |
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2009, 01:56:07 am » |
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hello rebel. iteresting subject. i like your thinking. in 1984 i had a great time in a small wheel base dragster i think less than 150inch. it belong to a gentalman named larry vanwilligin GREAT GUY !! he ran the digger in numerous early bug ins at the county. running in the low/ hi 10s deppending on the engine he had for it. 1679 seemed to work the best for the little digg. i ran my 2175 wich was producing 215 back then it went 10.24 at 132. @ 3000 ft elv. 800 lbs of pure hell what a blast. if your seeing this larry thanks again good buddy. not a total rear engine like you discuss but with no engine spacer and mid engine and VERY VERY SHORT. lets just say the thing was easy on gear boxes 3 speed 2ND 3RD 4TH and the clincher 4.86 RP the darn thing never broke. i gusse whighing in at poatao chip wight helped alot . its on my BUCKET LIST TO DRIVE ONE AGAIN cant wait. love the green one above bitchen little ride . the SNOOZE YA LOOZE. UD .
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 02:13:26 am by ugly duckling »
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lawrence
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2009, 20:16:03 pm » |
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That little otto bros. car is COOL. I would love to build something like that one day.
Some questions for the old guys: Why were these cars seen more years ago? Was there a specific class that they fit into? lt seems like a chassis like this would be relatively cheap and easy to build.
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"Happiness is a Hot VW!"
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rebel
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 22:22:57 pm » |
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lt seems like a chassis like this would be relatively cheap and easy to build.
This is what I actually am thinkin' about. The drag racing governing/organising body in where I live have come up with unusual type of classes in the game. It's generally divided to street classes and drag classes. In street classes there are some limitations in car modification to say it short. But in the drag classes, as I've read the rulebook back and forth several times, it basically seem to almost 'anything goes'. Not wanting to bore you dead in the details I've just come up with the idea, that that kind of dragster is one of the most effective (particularly cost effective) way to race. There is no doubt I probably won't let go in the street class in my super (as a club car it should be raced), but there's harder to be competitive on a budget. Comparing to what guys run, the dragster is not that bad idea... Besides our little drag racing world is dominated by 'fast&furious' inspired creations mainly and It would be cool to show to the guys some kind of oldschool approach... Another point for the dragster idea is (assuming it wuold be a rear engined one) fairly quick interchangablility of an engine. Which means it can be a good way to compare various engines of my clubmates. Or to use an engine from my bug for example before the dragster will have its own, dedicated one. It's a very pleasing and thilling perspective, though... |
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2009, 03:50:19 am » |
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running the engine in the rear of coarse is going to be more of a hand full if you were going to use 1st gear 2nd would be better to blead off some of the tq causing it not to porpues as bad WHEEL HOP or possibly major wheel stand depending on the power you had that day. slicks tend to hook better when chassies are longer and whight is more plentifull at least on asfalt. big bloated sand tires and sand tends to change things even on straite axle no suspention . over hear in the states the G DRASTER CLASS for the nhra was the class of choies if you wanted to run with the big boys. who cares to run in a class i my self just want to go fast and have the lightest and most power the chassie can handle and not break a darn thing and come home with a big  on your face at the end of the day. thats all that matters anyway . UD . |
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« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 06:24:14 am by ugly duckling »
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Frallan
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« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2009, 13:50:49 pm » |
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   Hi Rebel, I did 10:14 and 208 km/h with 170 hp in the late 70's with this contraption. It worked well. In some weeks time or maybe quicker, I should be able to share with you the pictures of the build up. Fredrik Frallan |
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Wünderwolff
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« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2009, 20:22:49 pm » |
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Lovely topic, would it come as a surprise when I say that me too I would always have loved to build something like this  Who wouldn't. Does anyone know about a slingshot type of vw powered dragster. You know where the engine is in front of the driver and the drivers sits in between/behind the rear wheels. That is what would interest me, as the weight of the engine up front would be more interesting in regards of the wheelie potential, the driver (in my case) will not outweigh that advantage. Any one? |
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Wünderwaffe are Go!
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ESH
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2009, 20:35:15 pm » |
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.. I did 10:14 and 208 km/h with 170 hp in the late 70's with this contraption ...
Very cool.  ... Does anyone know about a slingshot type of vw powered dragster. You know where the engine is in front of the driver and the drivers sits in between/behind the rear wheels ... There's the Lauffer's 'Nail'...    |
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lowfastbus
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2009, 22:03:53 pm » |
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Pure evil!  |
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 00:26:05 am » |
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thanks for sharing fredric. bitchen ride. and of coarse the untouchibels ride is one of my all time favorites. UD .
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vwcab
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« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2009, 00:48:59 am » |
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That Lauffer rail is AWESOME,twinturbo.Do you have more info on that enginecombo?And times on the strip?
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'72 standard käfer
'74 cal-look project
'78 1303 cabrio
'12 Triumph street triple
ESCARABAJO's CALIENTEs
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2009, 03:00:44 am » |
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the last i seen it on vidio it was ( 652 1/4@207mph) an engine as far as i know is BB PAUTER probebly well over 1000 hp im gussing. its got to be making major oats to pull the auto and the big pumkin REAR END it smokes em gooood . UD .
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2009, 03:15:54 am » |
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i would love just once to see the nail do this. tommy ivo showboaten. UD .
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2009, 03:19:29 am » |
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its still impresive as heck to watch . UD .
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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:22:42 am by ugly duckling »
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2009, 03:29:22 am » |
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this is my version of a SEXY ride. but ditch the hemi. top fule flat four. maybe some day i hope. talk about a money PIT. just keep feeding it. it will never be satisfide. UD .
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« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 03:36:36 am by ugly duckling »
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Frallan
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« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 07:44:43 am » |
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 Swedish but I do not know too much about it. The owner, I think is Ove Nilsson Stockholm. |
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rebel
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« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2009, 08:18:15 am » |
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What's ithe difference in driving the rar-engined, mid engined and front engined dragster? I think it is connected with weight transfer/traction in some way, right?
I've lurked through the net searching for oldschool projects and most info I've found is about 60's style front engined v8 powered dragsters. It may be helpful, but how may it concern rather low powered vw dragster project? Is there any borderline that in exeess of let's say XXX horsepower it's better to switch to 'slingshot' design.
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Neil Davies
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« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2009, 10:50:12 am » |
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I'm sure a sligshot could be put together for relatively little money. A RWD four cylinder gearbox like the Ford Sierra or similar, with a live axle from an Escort or Cortina perhaps? There's no suspension to speak of, just mount the axle directly to the chassis, and connect the output of the gearbox directly to the front of the axle, eliminating the propshapt! There are enough people racing Ford-based things to pick and choose gear ratios and back axle ratios I would think!
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2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
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JamieL
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« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2009, 21:15:04 pm » |
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Neil - just take a flick through the Swap Meet ads on Eurodragster, there's always loads of bits there...  And, indeed, compete slingshot chassis at times... |
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ugly duckling
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« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2009, 01:49:04 am » |
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reble. this was my last digger in 98. and from the shorty in 84 to this one. the long mid engine 180 inch hands down is the CADDILAC of speed. it all depends what your into. the shortys are cool and easy to transport. the long ones you need a special trailer. rear engine diggers are more safe in alot of ways. were front engine are ultra cool but you are waiting for 3 majors . 1 hot oily engine parts to hit you in the face. 2 rear tires to come apart and give you a series slapin in the face. 3 the worst lose your JEWELS and the rest of your lower half FOREVER!!. you make the choies.if you got low hangers then front engine all the way . UD .
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stealth67vw
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« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2009, 01:57:20 am » |
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reble. this was my last digger in 98. and from the shorty in 84 to this one. the long mid engine 180 inch hands down is the CADDILAC of speed. it all depends what your into. the shortys are cool and easy to transport. the long ones you need a special trailer. rear engine diggers are more safe in alot of ways. were front engine are ultra cool but you are waiting for 3 majors . 1 hot oily engine parts to hit you in the face. 2 rear tires to come apart and give you a series slapin in the face. 3 the worst lose your JEWELS and the rest of your lower half FOREVER!!. you make the choies.if you got low hangers then front engine all the way . UD .
I remember you bringing this to Sac in a glider airplane trailer towed behind a Greyhound bus. |
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John Bates
JB Machining Services
1967 street bug 2020lbs w/driver
12.34 @ 108 mph 1/4
7.76 @ 89mph 1/8
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TexasTom
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« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2009, 02:43:44 am » |
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I'm thinkin' I need the same! There should be more dragsters in the world ... |
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Work, work, WORK!
Modesty accepted here ...
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javabug
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« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2009, 03:02:17 am » |
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Cool midwest car I got to see run once or twice. I think it may have just been sold?  |
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Mike H.
Sven was right.
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Neil Davies
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« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2009, 09:49:00 am » |
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I remember seeing pictures of that a while back - looked almost there, but could have done with a few bits changing to look period perfect. I always fancied a full on Fuel Altered Topolino, but with a big flat four in the front instead of a V8! |
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2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
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Ole
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2009, 02:37:25 am » |
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no cerveza?
no trabajo!
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