Linkage question

[Andi/DFL]

hi,

right now I'm using the JKM linkage. It's a very nice linkage, high quality and I'm very satisfied with it BUT it looks too modern for my car. I don't like the "CNC machined" finish it has.

I could use this crossbar linkage, that comes with the available IDA-kits. Is it worth to try out, or is this the worst linkage you can get? I pretty much like the look of it, but don't know anything about its performance. I've seen it quite often on IDA setups, tho.
I don't have the linkage at my garage right now, so I just can't try it out myself at the moment.

Cheers
Andi

[SilverPig]

I know that JHU has some thoughts on push vs. pull. Let's hear them!

[Andi/DFL]

I should mention, that the JKM linkage is also a push linkage.

[lowfastbus]

I like the simple cross bar linkage, it's a bit hard on the gascable and conduct... but haven't got problems with it yet.

[Andi/DFL]

is the spring force of the ida's enough to fully pull the linkage back? the JKM has a nice spring, that helps to close the carbs properly and makes sure that your gas cable doesn't stuck :-)

[Jon]

What SilverPig remembers is that I like the linkages where you takes up "play" in only one direction. Like the CSP set up with IDAs, thats "pull" the whole way.

[Andi/DFL]

so if I get you right, you're talking about the CSP bellcrank type linkage and not the crossbar linkage? I used this with my IDFs and as far as I remember it was a "push" linkage, too? Now I'm getting confused :-)
I still have that one somewhere in my garage.

[Jon]

It depends on your manifolds and the "arms" you install on the carb. It can quite easily become both.
But, yes thats the linkage.

[Andi/DFL]

ok, I already thought about that. the problem is, when I change it to "pull" it doesn't clear my heater hoses (yes, I need them!! :-)) anymore.

[SilverPig]

They seem to clear the hoses quite nicely in your first picture.

[Jon]

In that picture they "push" Silver...

[Andi/DFL]

It's not my engine in the picture. If I would buy some lower IDA manifolds it may work. But with the Scat Traks the angle of the rods is not helpful, it is really very close to the hoses.

[SilverPig]

In that picture they "push" Silver...

Ah...yes...but of course. My mistake. 

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

As Far as Linkage goes The Berg Fan Housing Mount Linkage is the Best Linkage on the Market. On Center Mount Linkage that use a Bell Crank Type Like Deano and others as the motor heats up and expands the carbs go out of sync same goes for cross bar linkages that go from carb to carb when the motor heats up you get a lot of side to side slop on the cross bar and the carbs go out of sync since the berg is mounted to the fan housing it has no effect on the motor expanding when hot and the linkage rods both push the same weather the motor is hot or cold.

  A Note From Berg         

Linkages for VW fan housing mount.
 
Our linkages are chosen by people who want a linkage that fits and works perfectly every time! Proper pivot axis provides extremely smooth and soft pedal response. The response is so good you will not know you have dual carbs on the car when our copyrighted instructions are followed. Provides full throttle every time, even on early cars. Our linkages feature built in adjustable return springs (springs should never be added to the carbs), adjustable side thrust at hardened steel eyes, ball joints at all ends and an aluminum center pivot with adjustable location for different pedal travel and quickness. Hooks up to the stock cable end at the stock carburetor fan housing hole (FI fan housings require a new hole be drilled).
Adjustments ensure full throttle and smooth operation. Three shaft bearings eliminate bending in the center of the shaft. An adjustable full throttle stop on the cross bar at the arm locations to limit pedal force against the carburetor’s shafts. Prevents bending butterfly shafts. All require stock VW fan housings (or equivalent with coil bracket and fan mounting locations) and come with understandable copyrighted instructions. Originated in 1965. Made in USA by Gene Berg Enterprises
 

[Andi/DFL]

I would love to have a linkage mounted to the fan housing, but
a) I really, really don't like the berg linkage and the way it works
b) my riechert linkage for the fan housing doesn't fit for IDAs, although it may be a good idea to modifiy it. but it's quite rare so I'd better not touch it :-)

[Jon]

And the Berg linkage needs maintenance to, had they built it using ballbearings it would have worked for ever. Mine got to sloppy (for me)  during one or two years.
In the future I might redo the Berg linkage to get it right. I'm just so glad no one has mentioned the "kinks" in the linkage arms Berg made.

VW always seemed to know what they are doing, and they used the center pivot on the type three. 

[speedwell]

I would love to have a linkage mounted to the fan housing, but
a) I really, really don't like the berg linkage and the way it works
b) my riechert linkage for the fan housing doesn't fit for IDAs, although it may be a good idea to modifiy it. but it's quite rare so I'd better not touch it :-)

andi  do you like the speedwell linkage    this one made the 2 fonctions  push & pull 

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

And the Berg linkage needs maintenance to, had they built it using ballbearings it would have worked for ever. Mine got to sloppy (for me)  during one or two years.
In the future I might redo the Berg linkage to get it right. I'm just so glad no one has mentioned the "kinks" in the linkage arms Berg made.

VW always seemed to know what they are doing, and they used the center pivot on the type three. 

  The Old Berg Linkage did not have any bushings or bearing Suports like the newer Verisons the old ones were metal to metal and  wore the holes out on the ends of the Linkage which then made it Sloppy But the newer verisons are much better ..

[Andi/DFL]

speedwell, haven't seen this live. I have to take a look at EBI :-)

[speedwell]

ok no problem andi :-)

[ESH]

...had they built it using ballbearings it would have worked for ever. Mine got to sloppy (for me)  during one or two years...

I had the exact same problem with my old Berg and now have a GWD though I need to switch that as it doesn't work so well with my current IDA / manifold combination. The expansion problem isn't too accute with the GWD, whilst it certainly does expand it hasn't proved to be a problem in terms of synchronisation / general running.  The issue with the manifolds and the fit is one of the things I currently need to address on the car. I like the GWD, the quality is great but given my current problem with it maybe I'll take a look at one of the new improved Berg ones. I have to say the performance of the last old style one was, over its lifetime pretty underwhelming compared to the hype, always reminded me of a large crane. I should say pretty much every other Berg product I have has been great but the linkage, whilst not bad is not quite what I thought it should be.

[Lids]

I am using a push linkage aka DDS.  Haven't set it up yet so will wait and see!!

[Jon]

My Berg linkage was bought in 2002 or something, but I guess its old by now... its just metal to metal anyway.

[Bryan67]

Does anyone have the link to those adjustable ends for the Berg linkage rods? I know someone that could use some.

[Zach Gomulka]

Im not a fan of the Berg linkage either. Also, who wants to bolt a piece of angle steel to their fanshroud?? Blech!!

[Jon]

Does anyone have the link to those adjustable ends for the Berg linkage rods? I know someone that could use some.

I used the adjustable ends AND carb leavers of my Tayco with the Berg linkage. I used the leavers because, as we all know, when the angle are 90° the operation is at it most accurate, I don't need accurate operation at half to full throttle. With the Tayco parts it was at the most accurate between idle and half speed, perfect for around town.

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

Berg Linkage has been around since 1965 So I Dont Think it can be to Bad It was the Linkage most perfered by the Old School Cal Look Guys ,The Linkage That Was Used Most In the Day On an IDA motor if you used Short Manifolds they used Deano,ARPM,Race Trim center pull linkage if you used tall IDA manifolds they Used Original EMPI , BERG, Or Tayco Linkage or if you could get the Guys at FAT Performance to make you a custom set like on Keith Goss's Chop Top the early berg linkage had the angle iron at the top and had a piece welded to it that went down to the bottom fan housing bolt and was painted a med blue hamertone..

[speedwell]

just one question who made the first??? speedwell or berg  they 're similar and built in the same period 65 , the sprintkit was in the empi motoring guide  at that time in 65 

[Harry/FDK]

Andy, to my (humble) opinion... Use what you have installed, because it works...

[Harry/FDK]

Should be Andi, (sorry), Never buy the hex bar crap, one carb always leads the other. I found that the bellcrank or CSP system works best. Who cares if the engine revs 100 rpm's more when expanded. Good for your fan !