which callook trends didn't stand the test of time

[Jon]

Removing the license plate from the decklid and relocating it on the rear bumper or elsewhere. (HAHA!! Always looked very weird to me then and now)

I did it in the early nineties, and I'm doing it again now...  I don't need another bellybutton

--------------------------------------------------------------------

What is this thread really about??
Making fun of everything BUT stock 67's with chromed swim platforms from A1?

Where is the fun in collecting all the negative comments for a style... and especially for the style we LOVE? I just don't get some people

It's all these small thing people did then and now that is the point of it all.... THAT is the hobby.... trim away ALL of that, and you are left with the cars Volkswagen sold with tuned engines... and that has been available over the counter since time began in Europe, and in the US (Empi). If people then were building the cars of today back then the name Cal look wouldn't arise AT ALL, as it has been done ALL over the world.

This forum was meant to gather people with the same interests and let them discuss the things they love, if that is PINK cars with WINK mirrors, let them!!
Perhaps a few new sections is called for?

We don't need people to jump up and down on all styles except the current...

[qubek]

In keeping with the original intent of this thread:

Wink mirrors (GLAD to see those go bye bye... hated 'em then and now, but to each their own)
Stripes, graphics, whatever. Single color, please!
Overload of chrome plated engine components. (makes zero sense on an air cooled car)
Removing the license plate from the decklid and relocating it on the rear bumper or elsewhere. (HAHA!! Always looked very weird to me then and now)
Finned generator backing plate facade/covers. (ROFL! Those are just hideous... period, but many people ran 'em)

Personally, I wouldn't probably do any of this things to my car but.....

... how can anyone read this topic (and it is one of numerous similar discussions on this forum) and at the same time complain that most cal-lookers look the same nowadays. No Zach, it is not the repro parts that are to blame. It's the internet and topics like this.

[LuftsickTero]

... how can anyone read this topic (and it is one of numerous similar discussions on this forum) and at the same time complain that most cal-lookers look the same nowadays. No Zach, it is not the repro parts that are to blame. It's the internet and topics like this.

It's the drawing in the 1975 issue of Hot VWs and published DKP rules which many people take as "if I replicate this I end up as cool as these guys".

[Rennsurfer]

This forum was meant to gather people with the same interests and let them discuss the things they love, if that is PINK cars with WINK mirrors, let them!!

I fully agree. I thought that we were discussing a few Cal Look trends that didn't stand the test of time, that's all. To each their own... whatever people do to their cars doesn't bother me... it's their car. Sorry if I didn't clarify that better in previous posts.

[Jon]

This forum was meant to gather people with the same interests and let them discuss the things they love, if that is PINK cars with WINK mirrors, let them!!

I fully agree. I thought that we were discussing a few Cal Look trends that didn't stand the test of time, that's all. To each their own... whatever people do to their cars doesn't bother me... it's their car. Sorry if I didn't clarify that better in previous posts.

My reply was not aimed at you Fred, it's more of an observation from my side, as to where this forum is heading.

[Cornpanzer]

I disagree.  Nothing at all wrong with pointing out some of the silly things that were done back in the day and integrated into Cal-Look.  Wink mirrors, louvered firewalls, etc were ugly, useless and in the case of the wink potentially lethal in a crash. (although considering how much blood I lost on my louvered firewall, it may have been lethal too)

Hopefully, by looking back at our mistakes, we wont make them again in the future.

Cal-Look is a specific style. It has evolved over the years, but the core elements have remained the same.  If someone has a pink car with a wink mirror and a whale-tail and they like it, good for them.  But that doesn't make it cal-look and I refuse to pretend it is just so that they feel "accepted".  A car or component either is Cal-Look or it isn't.  Sometimes the edges are blurred.  We don't always know what "is" cal-look, but you know immediately when something isn't!

Imagine going to a fine French restaurant and finding hot-dogs and Burritos on the menu.  Would you say "oh how nice, they are accepting American and Mexican as French food now"?  Of course not, and exclaiming that hot dogs and Burritos are not French is in no way offensive to Americans and Mexicans.  

Likewise, giant Beard baja seats, 6" narrowed beams, roof racks, Cosmic wheels and pink whale tails are not Cal-Look.  Each of these may work/look great on a specific car, but they are not Cal-Look any more than hot-dogs are French. (you can include my chrome side trim in that too.    )

[.]

Wow, I actually agree with Dave on this one !
 

[TexasTom]

Excellent post ...

[Rick Meredith]

... how can anyone read this topic (and it is one of numerous similar discussions on this forum) and at the same time complain that most cal-lookers look the same nowadays. No Zach, it is not the repro parts that are to blame. It's the internet and topics like this.

It's the drawing in the 1975 issue of Hot VWs and published DKP rules which many people take as "if I replicate this I end up as cool as these guys".

Come on now... you know you can't buy cool! 

[low oval]

True, but that "cool" ship has long since sailed away.

[Jim Ratto]

Dave has a good take on this.

I think a few things come into play here:

1) Part of what makes a guy in this hobby tick is reminding him of when he was younger and the scene was brand new. There is no way to replace the excitement and enthusiasm that is elicited "the first time you do something" (I'll keep this G rated  ). What I mean is, if you got into hot rodded VW's in the mid 1960's then you may have gotten excited over 40PII's or a single Zenith 32NDIX, or factory dual ports. Within a few years of being into it, you got "set in your ways" and as new fads came and went, you might have looked at them suspiciously and thought to yourself "what will these kids do next?" Contrasting that, if you, like me, got into the hobby in the 1980's, you may have looked back at the genesis and the heyday of Cal Look like one might look at bellbottom jeans or tailfins ("man what were these old guys thinking?"), and thought to yourself, "if only they had SCS Street Eliminators back then..." Not only that, but each era or segment of this hobby is somewhat dictated and dare I say, governed, by what is available to the common enthusiast. In 1987-88, no matter how badly I wanted BRMs, I wasn't getting them. I made $4.25/hr and didn't know a soul who'd know where 4 were anyway.
2) expanding on point # 1: Where were you and what year was it when your mind was blown to pieces by the hot rod VW's that you'll never forget? Bet none of them fit the "mold" being discussed he at times, 100%. In fact, most of the cars that I can recall really making my jaw drop do not fit into the "rules", I think maybe one out of a half a dozen does (Dave Rhoads' green '64 when I saw it run mid 12's in 1990). Rest of them blur the lines. Good!
3) Personal preference. Like Dave C. says, while the hobby of the Cal Look car can't really be "locked into a rulebook" (thankfully), there are some techniques and details that keep a modded VW outside what is generally referred to as "Cal Look". Sometimes I see a car, and you can tell what the car 'stands for' and while it may not have the blessing of the "purists" it is still an exceptional example of a hot rod VW. What bugs me about this scene the most is how some guys will worry so much about period correctness and "living in the past" with parts from yesteryear..….but then by doing so, their car may be limited in its use, performance or safety. I don’t think the guys doing this 40 years ago were looking to gain acceptance simply through “looking cool”, they were in it to throw down on the street and kick ass. The DKP Top Ten Board wasn’t based on appearance. If everybody wants to mimic “what the old guys were doing” then realize they were ditching old technology (for the time) and going the way of radials, high compression, “then new” heads, etc. Sure there is a romantic side to seeing a car like Dave Rhoads’ or Hector’s cars, these cars that time kind of forgot, and we are blessed to still be able to get a glimpse of “how things were done.” But these cars have been around for what, 35+ years? Respect them.

We all have our favorite idea of what Cal Look is all about. To me the whole hobby is more about the legend of the scene and where it has gone and less about trying to pretend it’s 1970. Trim, no trim, filled dashes, stock gauges, real or reproduction, it all fits in somewhere. When you’ve scared the shit out of the girl next to you, and have blown some “performance car” into the weeds, does it really matter?

“Meet the new boss….same as the old boss.”

[Donny B.]

Very well stated Jim.  I like my car just the way it is.  I didn't build my car to a specific rule.  I built it so I could drive it anywhere and enjoy it all at the same time...

[javabug]

Some great posts here recently. Gotta give credit to you guys who can string intelligent thoughts together, make a clear point, and have the energy to type it all out. I get worn down just generating the thought!

I was dying to get my car out before reading Jim's post. Now it is really killing me!

[besserwisser]

One trend that gets very tiresome is the constant debate about what cal-look is and isnt. Leave a good thing alone and go out to your garage and do something constructive instead of judging other peoples taste.

[Sarge]

...."Gotta give credit to you guys who can string intelligent thoughts together, make a clear point, and have the energy to type it all out. I get worn down just generating the thought!"

Too much Pabst and fried food will do that....   Good topic!

[bugnut68]

...."Gotta give credit to you guys who can string intelligent thoughts together, make a clear point, and have the energy to type it all out. I get worn down just generating the thought!"

Too much Pabst and fried food will do that....   Good topic!

PBR me ASAP!

[Jon]

I disagree.

I belive you have misunderstood this thread.

It's about Cal look trends that didn't stand the test of time. In what part of the world is the whale tale recognized as a bona-fide Cal look trend (like the T bar)?

This makes this thread about JUST the things that you, I and the others recognise as a past Cal-look trend.
This being a forum for ALL the different years of cal-look, I find it highly offensive.

A bug with any number of modifications listed on this thread (If people would stay on topic) is without a shadow of doubt a Cal looker, from some point in time. It has been evolving as you say.

Who are we to judge who has a UGLY Cal-looker or not...?  And "judges" without "rules".. sounds like a middle eastern country

There is no need to tell someone that you hate their tweed interior, or "you should newer have used after market fenders"... people make their choices based on their own preferences, if they are unsure they will ask.

Live and let live....

[Rennsurfer]

Too much Pabst and fried food will do that....   Good topic!

HA! I see what you did there, Sarge.

 

[Cornpanzer]

JHU,
Perhaps the thread has crept a bit, but I am compelled to address part of your comments.  You seem to be very sensitive about this and Im not sure why. "Judging" seems to come up in your comments as a concern.  But if you read what I said, it had nothing to do with judging or calling other peoples cars ugly.  

To reiterate, people can build whatever kind of car they like. If it makes them happy, then great.  However, there seems to  be this trend of calling everything cal-look in order to be inclusive, which waters down the niche.

For example,  I have seen some amazing resto-cal cars.  While they are not my preference, I can think of several right off the top of my head that I would be thrilled to own. But resto-cal cars are not cal-look.  It doesn't make them bad and it doesn't make them ugly, it just means that they are not cal-look. Swan mirrors, stone guards, sun visors are not cal-look.  Notice that I didnt say that they are ugly or wrong, just that they are not cal-look. That statement isn't judgmental, just a fact.

I did notice that you referred to "chrome swim platforms from A1" earlier.  Sounds like you dont like A1 mufflers...seems kinda judgmental in fact.  Hmmm, I had one on my 67 before the turbo.  Are you calling my car ugly? 

Well, thats ok.  My pal John Plow regularly told me how he hated my muffler and how it was too loud.     I just ignored him. Seriously, I wasn't offended by your A1 comment.  I try not to get offended...in fact I like people who have strong opinions - black is black and white is white...easy to understand and no games to be played.  But for people who are thin skinned there will always be something to find "highly offensive". 

[Cornpanzer]

And to get this back on topic - wool plaid dash panels!  Cant believe that this was ever cool    I want too see someone try and pull that one off nowadays.

[Rennsurfer]

And to get this back on topic - wool plaid dash panels!  Cant believe that this was ever cool    I want too see someone try and pull that one off nowadays.

HAHA!! I agree... but they DID exist and I remember seeing those in many cars right before I bought mine in '79. Swore that I'd never put fabric on the dash. Just didn't make sense to me. To each their own.

What about louvers? Sheesh! Didn't care for 'em then and probably even more so, now. Thank God they didn't last.

[WCB Hitler's Hot Rod]

Some cal-look trends I used in the day that are not popular anymore are;
- 1835cc or 2180cc displacements with 10:1 or 11:1 compression. (Yes, I know why!)
- transaxles with colored axle boots. Color didn't last long but during the punk era they where popular.
- painting inside aprons with black hammertone paint. Looked good back then with a black spare tire cover.
- seat covers where popular especially from Westminster Upholstery.
- tinted windows from San Bernardino Glass. It gave the car a upper class look and the tint was inside the glass.
- radios seemed to be more popular back then with cal-look. Cruising around with a nice sound system enhanced your driving pleasure. Made me get more tickets though listening to the old KNAC punk music.  
- different colors where used with Porsche alloys or BRM's etc. Not just black. A lot of times would match the color of the car.
- RHD cal-look cars were extremely cool back then. It was different which made it more accepted.
- rear spoilers like for example the Herrod Helper wasn't that popular. It disrupted the clean and simple lines of the cal-look image, but I sort of liked them. It would be the only spoiler in the cal-look scene that was accepted; if  you wanted one, IMO.

 The Smiths "How Soon Is Now?"

Reproduction parts are like riding a Japanese Harley;  you're almost there, but not quite!    I love my Flat 4 BRMs though....

[Jon]

You seem to be very sensitive about this and Im not sure why.

English is my second language, so I apologise for my shortcomings in the ways of syntax  

This being a forum for ALL the different years of cal-look, I find it highly offensive.

As you may or may not know, the Lounge forum is run by Trond and myself. And I for one don't like mudslinging, and especially whit in the topics covered by this web forum.

And to make something perfectly clear, it is the fact that this THREAD exists I don't like, not the opinions inside it!

"Judging" seems to come up in your comments as a concern.  But if you read what I said, it had nothing to do with judging or calling other peoples cars ugly.  

By singling out characteristics of an era of Cal-look you are bound to indirectly "judge" someone with that feature...  And with a list as the long as the one in this thread most everyone's cars are faulty...

However, there seems to  be this trend of calling everything cal-look in order to be inclusive, which waters down the niche.

This is not what this tread is about. I don't disagree, but it's just not what the thread is about.

I did notice that you referred to "chrome swim platforms from A1" earlier.  Sounds like you dont like A1 mufflers...seems kinda judgmental in fact.  Hmmm, I had one on my 67 before the turbo.  Are you calling my car ugly?

When I post a personal opinion about a cal-look trend in this thread it's "kinda judgemental"
When others their opinion post it's not judgemental?? I don't get this.... must be that second language thing...

[nicolas]

well it is somehow a good thing that these discussions are going on. to me that is a sign that you both care. but it also seems to be clear that opinions differ on what is a callook (sorry Fred, it just types faster like this  ) is/was and wil be. but that is only a good thing
on the other hand it was not my intention to stir up the discussion like this. it is just a good fun topic to know some of the things that were done in yesteryear or before that.

[Cornpanzer]

I did notice that you referred to "chrome swim platforms from A1" earlier.  Sounds like you dont like A1 mufflers...seems kinda judgmental in fact.  Hmmm, I had one on my 67 before the turbo.  Are you calling my car ugly?

When I post a personal opinion about a cal-look trend in this thread it's "kinda judgemental"
When others their opinion post it's not judgemental?? I don't get this.... must be that second language thing...

This was my point, I was being a touch sarcastic .   You are quick to call others judgmental but you were doing the exact same thing that you dont like others doing...sooo???
Seriously though.  At this point I'm just enjoying the debate. Please don't take me too seriously.  I also understand that English is your second language and that does affect the details. I could type out my thoughts in a second language but it would just look like this lafwehlu s;lehr;; afgq vnrdgrngliafubu dkrguksdr.   

With that said, this idea of being sweet and accepting and sunshiny no matter what doesn't work with me. I like hearing what people like and what they don't like. Its fun hearing about modifications that seemed to be popular back in the 70s and 80's because of the magazines and then finding out that a lot of the people who were there hated that look. People are too quick to be offended nowadays anyway! 

Oh, and for what it is worth, I like the shaved deck lid and the license moved to the bumper too! I think it works best on 68  and later, but I always thought that was a good look. I did that on my 69 back in 1989. I like louvers too.  In fact, I have a spare 67 decklid that I was thinking about punching with louvers just for something different on my car (seriously)    Mark can borrow it when I am done. In fact, now I am going to do it just so that people can tell me how terrible it is! 

[javabug]

Too much Pabst and fried food

I'll provide all the Pabst and fried food you can handle if any Loungers show up in Pennsylvania. Get Rosique to organize a RBIGBUS trip!

And to stay on topic, we can talk about cal-look trends in person! 

[low oval]

I also liked the shaved deck lid on 68's and 69's only, but it has to have t-bars, and a big motor is a must.  Throw some old centerlines on there and you have one tough looking car.  If you cut the dash and throw some vitalone mirrors on this car it will look like my buddies car back in the 70's.  That was one bad ass car back then.
I still have some vitalone mirrors on my el camino, and would run them on my ghia if I could find another set.

[TexasTom]

Chrome engine anything ... coil covers, tin, fuel pumps, ... chrome is BAD.

Vitalone mirrors ... as long as they're color-matched somehow ... Jeez, we probably installed over 100 sets of those things back when we were building cars for customers! They were the inexpensive way to get the 911 look! I don't mind them still ...

As for 'The Debate', I'm enjoying it. Why? You really get to know people better, whether you like their views or not. As these 'Debates' started on the different threads I have found a few whose veiwpoints I really like! I'm hoping some day to meet/spend time ... SOMEDAY!
Until then ... we've got The Lounge!

I'd like to Thank Trond and JHU for providing this GREAT meeting place for all of us!

p.s. I've got a few billet pieces on my car ... sshhhh, don't tell anybody!

[Zach Gomulka]

That's ok, it goes with your all tweed interior! Sign of the times! 

[TexasTom]

  Zach! LOL

I'll probably change it when it becomes the thing to have again