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Author Topic: Pre-Cal 40hp motors - Pictures, advice, tips, parts, etc etc etc  (Read 4099 times)
Lee.C
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« on: September 04, 2012, 23:06:56 pm »

I have been wanting to start this thread for a while now, As the title says - Pre-Cal 40hp motors - What ya got!?

Pictures, Advice, tips, Parts, Combos, etc etc etc  Smiley

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hotrodsurplus
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« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2012, 04:40:29 am »

Pre-Cal 40hp motors - What ya got!?

The crankshaft chapter in California Bill's book, How to Hot Rod Volkswagen Engines, has a good recipe for boring/stroking 40s. Basically it uses a stock 69mm crank with the rod journals widened for 40-horse rods and an 83mm big-bore kit. I think you'd be better off disregarding his suggestion to offset-grind the crank down to 36er journal diameter to make a 1602; those rods are really spindly and the work would cost as much or more than a conventional stroked 74mm crank. That would still get you the 1602 but with much stronger rods.

Things unique to the 40:
40 cams ride right in the case material. Most 40 cases have been machined for insert cam bearings by now but if you find a virgin one have it machined for insert bearings.

The '65 heads and the factory service replacements have the conventional square rocker stands and short rocker studs. Avoid the earlier ones with the round rocker stands and long studs. The studs tap into the meat really near the chamber and the fastener stress combines with the extreme heat and cracks the chambers. The 'good' heads are not hard to find but cost a bit more.

The small intake ports don't flow much even when ported. Real cam grinders (and not just the ones with big names) grind cams with more intake duration/lift for racecars that run in limited classes (Classes 1-2/1600, 5/1600, 9, and 11 to name a few). Historically those classes were limited to single-port heads so the grinders did split-duration cams to suit them perfectly.

If you run 6V have an early 1500 crank ground so you can use a stepped 6V 200mm flywheel (early TII and TIII)

Standard practices apply:
Keep deck height short (less than .050")
Keep chambers as small as possible (stick to unshrouding valves if in doubt)
Run good rings
Stock cams will absolutely tolerate 8:1 CR. Consult your cam grinder to determine how much MORE compression you will need to accommodate whatever cam you want to run (duration reduces effective CR).

Either a kid working for Fred Simpson or one of Fred Simpson's customers had one of the 74mm-stroked 40s. It had a Zenith carburetor and an old header. That little bugger flat-out flew--it would smoke a dual-port 1600 and probably hang with most 1680s.
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johnl
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« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2012, 05:39:23 am »

Back in the day with really no knowledge and very little performance parts to choose from this is what I had in my original 1963 Ruby Red Sunroof.  It all started very small and I guess over time grew to some big stuff “for the day”.

Probably the first performance improvement was removing the pea shooters from the stock muffler and  replacing those with “bell tips”.  Don't know that it did much other than sound good and back then that had to be good for a few HP.

Next would come that first set of fresh air heaters that Bob Sanchez ever made and sold.  I've written about this in the past so I'll not bore you with all of the details again.  Anyway that turned out to be a huge improvement over the stock muffler and also gave me something to apply VHT paint to almost daily.  Back then the headers were painted in white as it stood out more and of course would get dirty and or discolor very rapidly thus the daily touch ups.

By this time I was in need of more “bark to the bite”.  This came about via Joe Schneider, Schneider Motors in Anaheim who installed a LUK Porsche 356 diaphragm pressure plate.  This thing was.   AWSOME as I could drive by Anaheim High, grab second gear and chirp those tires.  Unfortunately I couldn't keep my foot out of it and the “chirp” would go away rapidly and in some cases so would the gear box.  I think I had a half a dozen of those pressure plates in a years time.

Someone got the idea that if we ran the fresh air hose from one side of the fan housing directly into the Solex carb it would “supercharge” the car.  The end result wasn't much more than pushing hot air into the already hot motor.  Oh well, no one ever accused us of being brilliant.

Finally for me came the “ultimate” in the purchase of a Judson Supercharger.  This came from the Custom House on Whittier Blvd.  This was their second and final location after moving from Whittier to La Habra.  I'll never forget the day I picked that puppy up. 

Down to Schneider Motors to have Joe assist with the installation.  I can still hear his gruff German voice saying “you will blow this thing up”.  Didn't matter, I did it and was in HEAVEN for about 2500 miles until it blew a hole in #2 piston.

The Judson came off and to this day I can't remember what every happened to it.  Who knows, maybe it is stored in a box in my garage!!

The final major change out was a Big Bore kit from EMPI that I went to Riverside and picked up for Joe for the installation.  For some reason I have it in my mind that this was not the well known 83mm kit but an 82mm set.  Was there such a thing??

Along with the Big Bore kit Joe went up the street about a block up the street to Potvin Cams and had them do a cam for the engine.  What it was I have no idea but I do remember the famous term “3/4 race” being assigned.

That motor lived until I came home from my first tour of Viet Nam and Christie an I drove the car to Phoenix in July to visit family friends.  About ten miles east of Indio, California the motor went south.  We were taken via the tow truck back to Indio and the car was put in a parking lot.  It was about 115o and Christie and I were sitting outside of a Mortuary on the curb trying to figure out what to do.

We walked downtown and went in a Chinese Restaurant where the family spoke no English and were all  eating Watermelon.  After getting something to drink we went back to the Mortuary curb where the owners spotted us and invited us in out of the heat.  The allowed me to use their phone and I “phoned home” for help. 

About 8pm that night my folks arrived with two cars one of them being the black 1966 sedan that Rich Kugel and I later drove to Bonneville.   Also in arriving was Fred and Margaret Huggins (Gary Huggins) parents and my second parents.

Dad brought some form of tow bar and we hooked my car up and it went back to Anaheim and Christie and I continued on to Phoenix in the '66 without further problems and had a good visit.  The car was stored in my parents garage until I came home for leave about nine months later after and was rebuilt for the last time as a 40HP based motor.

And now you know “the rest of the story”....................
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hotrodsurplus
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« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2012, 08:40:59 am »

That's awesome, John!

Quote
Someone got the idea that if we ran the fresh air hose from one side of the fan housing directly into the Solex carb it would “supercharge” the car.  The end result wasn't much more than pushing hot air into the already hot motor.  Oh well, no one ever accused us of being brilliant.

It's not as hare-brained as it seems. DB&HVWs did a performance-engine SIP in winter '89. Among the stories is a 21-test dyno pull at Kawell's shop. It's one of my favorite magazine entries of all time--a younger and more ambitious version of me even marked it up with notes. Well test six was such a charger. It cost power to 3,500rpm but at 4,000 it was good for 2hp and by 5,000 it made four more horsepower and actually made power at 6,000rpm (stock cam on a dual-port engine).

Quote
For some reason I have it in my mind that this was not the well known 83mm kit but an 82mm set.  Was there such a thing?

Yup. Even EMPI imported them. I got a few of those and some 83mm piston-liner sets about 15 years ago. They were all incomplete sets--likely one cylinder doomed the rest of each set. I wish I hadn't chucked 'em.

Quote
Along with the Big Bore kit Joe went up the street about a block up the street to Potvin Cams and had them do a cam for the engine.

Isky told me a great story about Potvin. He didn't think much of Chuck Potvin. The theory in the early '50s said that a Flathead couldn't benefit from much more than like 3/8-inch lift (some maintain that figure is the genesis of the bunko 3/4-race and full-race cams by the way). Isky said he laughed when Potvin dared to do the 400 cam (.400 lift) but his his ridicule turned to embarrassment when the Potvin 400 cam made more power than any other cam like it. "He didn't know enough to not try it!" he said. And by dumb luck he succeeded.

By the way, the Potvin 400 has a 284-degree duration and .390-inch lift. Sound familiar? That's an Engle W-110 (with 1.1 rockers it comes out to .430-inch lift). That was another Isky story. He said that Jack Engle got into the business the same way most cam grinders did: by buying a Storm Vulcan grinder and copying existing profiles (Isky learned from the master, Ed Winfield; Clay Smith learned from the other master, Pierre Bertrand; everybody else learned from those guys). The Engle W-110 is plausibly a Potvin 400 with a 108 lobe-separation angle.

So there you go. Six degrees separates hot VWs from hot rods. Hey, they're both side-valve engines in a way!

[/ramble]

Quote
It was about 115o and Christie and I were sitting outside of a Mortuary on the curb trying to figure out what to do.

That's quite poetic if you think about it.

Quote
We walked downtown and went in a Chinese Restaurant where the family spoke no English and were all  eating Watermelon.
 

Jesus! Who directs your mishaps? David Lynch? Coen brothers?

Again, awesome story. Heh heh.
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RichardinNZ
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« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2012, 08:43:18 am »

I guess you have already looked at the Vintage Speed forum on thesamba? 
Thanks
Richard
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Lee.C
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« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2012, 11:21:44 am »

I guess you have already looked at the Vintage Speed forum on thesamba? 
Thanks
Richard

No I have not BUT I thought I would ask on the CAL LOOK LOUNGE for the best answers Smiley
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Fritter
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« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2012, 15:06:41 pm »

Cool stories.  I had a big bore 40hp in my old '65.  No other mods.  When I took it apart, all the rings were broken....not sure what happened. 

All the 40hp engines I've run were always nice running engines, not nearly as anemic as a 36hp.  A 40hp can keep up with modern day traffic fairly well, although one has to keep the loud pedal matted at all times!

In my old DEANO catalog, they list some 92mm PC sets for a 40hp....that would be a cool combo.  And maybe port the heads a bit, put an Engle 110 in, put a plenum manifold on with a Weber DCN or a Zenith carb.  Maybe an 010 distributor.  Definitely would need one of those zoomie tube exhausts they all ran back then.  With the 4:37 geared trans, this engine would probably move out pretty good and definitely stand out from the crowd.
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Mike F.
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johnl
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« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2012, 17:32:44 pm »

Quote
We walked downtown and went in a Chinese Restaurant where the family spoke no English and were all  eating Watermelon.
 

Jesus! Who directs your mishaps? David Lynch? Coen brothers?

Again, awesome story. Heh heh.

I never really thought about that much until you mentioned it.  Interestingly enough on Monday afternoon we were visiting friends (Paul & Sue Opperman, former DGVA member) and watched "Fargo" which was done by the Coen brothers.  For any of you that haven't seen this flick I highly recommend it.

After sending my post I went to bed and told Christie what I was writing about.  We laughed and both agreed that over the years we've had some fun and "interesting"   Roll Eyes Roll Eyes  times.  Oh, and I've never liked Watermelon and this may be why.........    Wink Wink
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Volkswagens Limited, DKP I
Celebrating 56 years of Volkswagens in my life 1963-2019

Life is a learning experience and then you die but when you do you've lived a good life if you contributed to your fellow man.
TexasTom
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« Reply #8 on: September 06, 2012, 00:42:38 am »

It doesn't get ANY better than this:

http://imageevent.com/mrokrasa/okrasaenginesgalore

I don't care Who ya are or Where ya been ...
 Wink
TxT
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hotrodsurplus
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« Reply #9 on: September 06, 2012, 01:46:07 am »

Quote

Yup, that's the winner. The only thing that could make them better is if Okrasa chose a better chamber shape. It's ironic because VW's 36er heads have crap chambers like that but the 36er Okrasa versions have good and tight chambers. Volkswagen's 40 chambers are actually pretty good but Okrasa's 40-horse chambers suck. They're just big, slow-burning bathtubs.

Oh well. Can't have it all.

Greg has a set for sale.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1300891

If the manifolds interchange with the 36 Okrasas then a pair of Zeniths on Stefi's manifolds would be just flat-out awesome on a lightly cammed 1602 with about 8.5:1 CR. I can't see why one wouldn't make at least 80hp. Which raises a good point: for the money it'd take to build one of those engines you could probably build a 160hp two liter. It takes a lot of money to build a poor man's engine anymore.  Wink
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Lee.C
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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2012, 21:51:47 pm »

Just want to clarify something here  Undecided

From what I understand of this thread I can...... "slip In" and set of bigbore 83mm B&P and then just by changing the upper head studs I can use the Later/better 1300 SP heads on my 1200cc 40hp bottom end/shortblock

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=500656

Any tips if I do end up doing this  Huh Smiley
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Steve67
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« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2012, 18:43:28 pm »

Yes you can...
Did the same for my engine,didnt even have to change the studs.
I combined it with a W110 cam and a german Riechert  PCI set.
I will post the result when I made to the dino
Best regards
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Lee.C
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« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2012, 22:00:34 pm »

Yes you can...
Did the same for my engine,didnt even have to change the studs.
I combined it with a W110 cam and a german Riechert  PCI set.
I will post the result when I made to the dino
Best regards

Cool - sounds like an interesting little motor  Smiley
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