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Author Topic: The SPG Roller Bearing Crank thread/My 2180cc ENGINE :)  (Read 14928 times)
Lee.C
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« on: November 29, 2013, 22:33:50 pm »

Well I have just recieved word from Gary and he is talking my crank to the shipper on MONDAY  Grin

So I thought I'd share a couple of picture of the finished article......

- Stripped, Pressed apart and all parts "Checked/measured"
- New crank end piece (1 of the 5 sections) wich is now wedgemated
- All sections/rods FULLY polished to remove casting marks etc
- Rods Balanced
- Pressed back together WITHOUT rods and balanced with flywheel & clutch  
- Pressed apart again to have rods fitted with modified roller bearings
- Pressed back together for the final time-......
- Cross-Drilled across the sections for "pins"
- Pins then welded into place

So lets have your thoughts/experiences/engine specs/etc etc  Smiley
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 05:34:10 am by monkiboy » Logged

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Lee.C
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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2013, 22:35:23 pm »

All together.....
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2013, 05:23:50 am »

The first truly terrifying Volkswagen that scared my balls off ran a Rennsport Werke (Jim Wellington) prepped 82 roller. It was in a 2276 that also ran ARPM Super Flo heads, Engle 125 and 48IDFs. All in a stock looking white '67 Sedan. And I mean stock, other than 5.5" chrome wheels and Wolfsburg crested nipple caps and merged dual mufflers. Otherwise the car was as VW sent it over here. With belt on, wearing 185 radials, the car clicked off 13.05's @ Sac. This was in 1990.
Wonder what ever became of that car.
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2013, 05:50:00 am »

Vroom vroom Smiley What weight is your flywheel?
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danny gabbard
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« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2013, 06:37:17 am »

So when is it come'n up for sale lee ?
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Lee.C
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« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2013, 07:05:35 am »

- Jim... COOL STORY!!! What did it Rev too  Huh

- Zach.... I am not sure what weight the fly wheel is, I am getting some more pictures over the weekend and hopefully a little more info

- Danny.... This is one item I will NOT be selling, there is just to much time,effort & money in it, I am guessing I have $2500 in it already  Shocked Roll Eyes Smiley

The best part is that Ian Clarke (WPS) is really up for building the motor.....
Its nice to have an engine builder who actually "Gets" what I want from this motor  Grin
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2013, 07:33:06 am »

I don't remember what it spun to. The owner, this guy Roger, offered to take me on a parts delivery run from Buggy House down the street to Dan Olson's shop. He pulled into center turning lane in front of shop, signaled, proceded to make a U turn and planted his RH foot and we were wagging our way south thru 3 gears down Mission. I was holding on for my life so I didn't look @ tach.

What is your plan for your motor?

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Lee.C
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« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2013, 08:02:19 am »

Such a cool story  Grin

The Basics are: 2180cc, (82x92) Old 70's 92's UNKNOWN brand but "Good"  11.8:1 CR due to the Old Skool heads I already have... Engle 130 with straight cut gears, Magneto (fully rebuilt/recurved!), 48ida's on tall empi manifolds , Porsche "Small" Dynamo, Electric fuel pump (original 70's item!) etc etc

I'm hoping for around 170-180bhp and be able to drive to the track run a 13 and drive home again.......

Nothing special or Fancy.... Just a Big "Thumper" of a Street motor  Wink
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Cheesepanzer
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« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2013, 18:11:45 pm »

Just curious....

What length are the rods?

I thought rollers weren't for hard drag race starts?  Heavy street car starts...
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deano
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« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2013, 18:16:30 pm »

Just curious....

What length are the rods?

I thought rollers weren't for hard drag race starts?  Heavy street car starts...


They have to be either/or pinned, or welded to prevent the crank (rod journals-to-the counterbalancers) from being twisted out of phase.
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Lee.C
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« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2013, 18:47:31 pm »

 Smiley  and I qoute....

- Stripped, Pressed apart and all parts "Checked/measured"
- New crank end piece (1 of the 5 sections) wich is now wedgemated
- All sections/rods FULLY polished to remove casting marks etc
- Rods Balanced
- Pressed back together WITHOUT rods and balanced with flywheel & clutch 
- Pressed apart again to have rods fitted with modified roller bearings
- Pressed back together for the final time-......
- Cross-Drilled across the sections for "pins"
- Pins then welded into place
[/b]

This much more of a Street motor than a "Race" motor dispite the CR  Wink and its only going in a stock-weight 65 bug on 185 rear tires Smiley

I have mentioned this before but Gary has these "Modified" SPG's running in Turbo race cars on SLICKS!  Shocked Smiley
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Fasterbrit
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2013, 14:10:57 pm »

That crank is awesome - it's a work of art! It's going to be one hell of a cool motor when finished. Keep the faith and you will have a real hoot on the street and track.  Cool

let me know if you need another 82mm SPG crank, as I have one which I'll probably never use...

Regards, Matt
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Lee.C
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2013, 16:51:34 pm »

That crank is awesome - it's a work of art! It's going to be one hell of a cool motor when finished. Keep the faith and you will have a real hoot on the street and track.  Cool

let me know if you need another 82mm SPG crank, as I have one which I'll probably never use...

Regards, Matt

Thanks buddy, I thought you might like this  Wink

I should have a few more pictures from Gary soon,

I can't wait to hear this thing finally run  Grin Grin
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MC Dyno Don
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2013, 22:46:07 pm »

XLNT Crankshaft....BUT >>>> Beware of using slicks as these cranks do NOT enjoy the lifestyle of hard starts in drag racing. I am here as living testament to using these rpm busters. I loved each and every engine and or car I bought and sold in the day that sported one of these cranks regardless of the stroke. Jim Dutcher in the day would explode a roller crank at least every other outing so it seemed even with his lightweight cars.  Another story/My long time friend Mike Stickle who used to own the Auto haus in Utah "1974" had an offroad engine that lost oil pressure and lasted for SEVERAL more torturing miles until it too finally exploded. One with a good ear for engine sounds can actually hear a roller crank when it is about ready for a rebuild or ready to explode as it has a destinctive "clicking" sound as the crank is showing signs of fatigue. I had a manx with an engine passed down from Dean Lowry  that had a 74 stroke with 92's and 125 engle with 42dcnf's ...I was actually on my way to a freinds house to r&r  everything to be safe but I HAD to flog it just one more time before I got to his garage and I can STILL to this day some 20+ years later remember the fond sound of the crank letting go at about 6k rpm as it promtly "spit out" 2 pistons with rods hanging, into the gelcoat of the buggy and was imbedded there like a bad art piece with cascades of oil EVERWHERE/LOL.   aahhh, Those were the days/peace out/Dyno Don
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2013, 23:27:15 pm »

in the mid to late 1990's we had a customer, an older gentleman, with a gorgeous 1970 KG convertible, ivory white, super cherry car. He had a 1915cc slated for it, in somewhat mild state of tune, but ended up having my boss buiild him a 2110 with 82mm SPG crank. I don't remember heads. Think it had a 125 Engle in it. It was more cruiser and less killer. In any case, Bug A Rama Sac was looming in the near future and I was planning on running my car and the boss offered me a tow in his enclosed up and back. With the offer of a tow I set my car up with dry sump bottom pulley and some other tweaks I wouldn't normally run on the freeway for hours on end. And so Saturday night comes and we end up @ Sac, ran my car (radials) all day Sunday. Our customer brought his car up as well, intially to show only. He got the bug to run the car and next thing you know I see him in the lanes. My buddy Bryan and I thought about it and politely warned him of what might happen to his crank. Big heavy Ghia, but with only 165 radials... maybe it'd be ok, but....maybe you should reconsider...
He ran it anyway. Posted something like a 16.70 so we "assume" he soft-footed it and everything was fine. Wrong. We find him back in the gravel with decklid up. Motor won't turn. He says "I don't know but I think the sump is starting to fall off." we look under car... the bottom of the case (not the sump) was blown open, forcing the external sump away from the case. Oil city. Crank was junk, German, gold universal (filled #3) was junk, cam broken, it was really sad to see. And I think the guy never fixed it. Just a sad story from the past.
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Jim Ratto
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« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2013, 23:29:44 pm »

sorry to continue... my boss learned of the motor going south in our customer's car and gave him my ride home. It was what was right, he was a customer I was the counter slave with a decent (though hot) running car that could get home. With that dry sump pulley, in Sacramento I was a little nervous.
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Lee.C
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« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2013, 00:32:07 am »

XLNT Crankshaft....BUT >>>> Beware of using slicks as these cranks do NOT enjoy the lifestyle of hard starts in drag racing. I am here as living testament to using these rpm busters. I loved each and every engine and or car I bought and sold in the day that sported one of these cranks regardless of the stroke. Jim Dutcher in the day would explode a roller crank at least every other outing so it seemed even with his lightweight cars.  Another story/My long time friend Mike Stickle who used to own the Auto haus in Utah "1974" had an offroad engine that lost oil pressure and lasted for SEVERAL more torturing miles until it too finally exploded. One with a good ear for engine sounds can actually hear a roller crank when it is about ready for a rebuild or ready to explode as it has a destinctive "clicking" sound as the crank is showing signs of fatigue. I had a manx with an engine passed down from Dean Lowry  that had a 74 stroke with 92's and 125 engle with 42dcnf's ...I was actually on my way to a freinds house to r&r  everything to be safe but I HAD to flog it just one more time before I got to his garage and I can STILL to this day some 20+ years later remember the fond sound of the crank letting go at about 6k rpm as it promtly "spit out" 2 pistons with rods hanging, into the gelcoat of the buggy and was imbedded there like a bad art piece with cascades of oil EVERWHERE/LOL.   aahhh, Those were the days/peace out/Dyno Don

COOOOOOOOOL stories Don.... Always great to hear stuff from "Back in the day"  Grin

I am not really planning on doing much "Racing" maybe a few runs to check shes got a 13 in her.......  Wink

I'm only gonna be using 185's at the most and its a standard weight bug etc....But I am not really worried as its been PROPERLY modified  Wink

It is nice to hear stories from people that have actually used/run/broken these cranks rather than the usual "I have heard....... "

Thanks again Don  Smiley
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MC Dyno Don
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« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2013, 01:31:38 am »

 The crank in question/yours/is AWESOME... (Great Attention to detail ) thanks for such xlnt pictures ,and it should last you a lifetime. The most noticeable trait you will experience is how smooth and how quick the rpms come on making it a joy to drive. I am also a firm believer of using a product (over 45+ years)called "Marvel Mystery Oil ", in the oil as it provides and xlnt "cushion" for this application. Best of luck to you... and ENJOY..!!  Peace Out/Dyno Don
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Lee.C
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« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2013, 01:50:47 am »

The crank in question/yours/is AWESOME... (Great Attention to detail ) thanks for such xlnt pictures ,and it should last you a lifetime. The most noticeable trait you will experience is how smooth and how quick the rpms come on making it a joy to drive. I am also a firm believer of using a product (over 45+ years)called "Marvel Mystery Oil ", in the oil as it provides and xlnt "cushion" for this application. Best of luck to you... and ENJOY..!!  Peace Out/Dyno Don

Thanks again Don..... I was going to ask about "how they drive" compared to a normal plain bearing crank  Undecided  Smiley

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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2013, 03:33:47 am »

How much weight do they ad?
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Lee.C
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« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2013, 04:52:27 am »

I am not sure how much overall weight the SPG adds but its quite a bit  Shocked

I had an email from Gary along with a few picture, Not sure on the exact weight of the Fly wheel (Zach) but its been "Lightened" balanced (with the clutch) 8 dowel'd & Wedgemated its also had the clutch surface "Re-Faced" as Gary puts it  Smiley

Anyway here are a few cool pic's.......

First one more of the Crank/rods:
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Lee.C
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« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2013, 04:57:54 am »

Flywheel:
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Lee.C
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« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2013, 05:01:47 am »

Cam/Gear..... Old Engle 130 Smiley
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Lee.C
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« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2013, 05:04:50 am »

Clutch/HD Kennedy chosen by Gary  Undecided Smiley
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Lee.C
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« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2013, 05:07:48 am »

HD friction plate again chosen by Gary  Smiley
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Lee.C
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« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2013, 10:02:40 am »

Just heard from Gary..... Its a 12lbs Flywheel  Smiley
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2013, 15:51:46 pm »

Cool. I'm thinking that crank would go really well with my Crown AL flywheel and Kennedy AL pressure plate Wink Might have to find one for the 1700 (88x69) I'm building.

Did he have any recommendations on an oil pump to keep those rollers lubed?
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Lee.C
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« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2013, 17:15:34 pm »

Cool. I'm thinking that crank would go really well with my Crown AL flywheel and Kennedy AL pressure plate Wink Might have to find one for the 1700 (88x69) I'm building.

Did he have any recommendations on an oil pump to keep those rollers lubed?
f

Gary Just said that this weight flywheel works well with the rollers and as for an oil pump..... He just said make sure its BIG  Wink
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« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2013, 19:52:24 pm »

If it's not too much trouble, find out the crank/rod weight difference from him if you could.
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Lee.C
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« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2013, 21:08:24 pm »

If it's not too much trouble, find out the crank/rod weight difference from him if you could.

No problem dude I'll ask him..... I know Rob(themanx) said it was a VERY NOTICEABLE difference in weight of the "Built" motor  Shocked

I know a few other members on here have SPG's "In-Stock" so maybe someone could weight one for us and post the results...

Mr Keene maybe  Undecided Smiley

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