My First Engine Build....2110

[Lukej]

Hi Andy ,turns out I had an account... How did today go?!

[andy198712]

Cool

I wanted to have it started today but I didn't get that far.

I fitted the fan and wired in the alternator, adjusted the shroud and drilled a hole for a grommet for the wires and bolted that all down, brought a shorter belt to, 825mm with all six shims in between the pulley and fan, IE as loose as the top pulley will allow and its a good fit.

Bolted for the manifolds and torqued to 14ft/lbs as per manual.

Took quite a while to get to that level, most of it was cutting and adjusting the shroud,

Then positioned the fuel filter and fitted that, started plumbing in the fuel line and the fuel pressure reg, got that all sorted and tightened up.

Fitted the CB T piece to the tank only to find the threaded portion is too long and it bottoms out on the tank it's self instead of the o ring in the T. Filed this down to make it screw down further and compress the sealing O ring, applied blue hylomar and hand tightened it down, then fitted the 8mm return barb and the 13mm outlet barb.

Wired up the pump and fitted the pressure side to the hard line.

Thought about how to do the 13mm feed and came up with an idea around the pipe routing I'll picture tomorrow.


So what's left to do?

Fit the 8mm return line from the hard line to the tank
Fit the 13mm feed line to the pre filter
Fit tank gasket,
Add fuel and check for leaks
Turn ignition key and check the whole system for leaks (fingers crossed)
If that's all good, wire in the injectors and make up a little loom for that
Wire in the TPS, check the ECU likes what it sees there
Make up a cable linkage and test that.
Wire in the new voltage regulator under the seat and do the conversion wiring from gen to alt.

Turn the key and see what happens.


That's a lot for tomorrow so we will see!!

[andy198712]

Oh, and do a charity run and drive 3 hrs to pick up the lad from D of E on Bodmin 

[andy198712]

And hook up vacuum lines......
Kinda doubting it'll be done tomorrow

[andy198712]

Totally worth it for that look though! It's my dream setup cooling wise and now I have it! Well pleased! Will need a lot of tweeking and sealing of gaps but it's on it's way!

[andy198712]

Well it runs! it doesn't stop, but it runs  think i need to add a diode in there somewhere apparently? i'll work it out.

Long day, heres what i did:

Connected up the fuel lines, and wired the pump up.
Primed pump a few times and checked for leaks
NO LEAKS! result
Won a 3 miles charity run, was mostly oldies so sounds better then it actually was 
made up a throttle linkage, using bike brake cable and sheath and clamp on nipples (naughty)
worried up the injectors and made the loom look nice with sheath
hooked up the plug wires
hooked up the vac line
tried to start it, got a couple starts then died after a second or two.
charged battery, had dinner, googled it
google said check required fuel, sure enough the ECU thought it was a 5litre V8 lol
adjusted settings and it fired up fine but idled high!
adjusted linkage, lowered idle
was in the 10's AFR so started lowering that which upped the idle again
lowered that and got me thinking i need a thinner cable between the TBI's, i think its causing it to hang up, or its too tight, which i can adjust. i'll look into that.
i have added an extra return spring but its not returning fully on the RHS TBI... this could just be the linkage needs adjusting tensions ect, but it was getting dark and i didn't want to piss off the neighbours too much.
went to turn it off and it stayed on! the alt light lit up as i turned the key off but it kept going ECU still getting power.... turned key back on and ALT light went out, turned key and it still stayed running..... ECU fuse out and it killed it!

from what i'm reading i need to add a diode in somewhere....


Anyway! pooped now! was great fun adjusting the fuel map off the AFR readings and getting a direct change, that was really cool! throttle response was fast too! well on the lower sections i leaned out, would puff a black cloud in the upper rpm as its very rich! but the tun got it started so happy with that!

not got it ready for work though so going to run to work tonight and stay there, cycle back tomorrow and get on it!!

LONG day!! but i'm very happy its started and runs!

[Lukej]

How about today?

That shorud really does look good, cost a pretty penny though eh?!

Good work on getting as far as you did, fuel system sounds good and does away with a swirl pot so it'll be cool if that works out... Picked up some GSXR ITBs after what you said the other day off eBay from an early 2000s bike so should split for my IDA manifolds, just bought another few bits off Richie too so I'll get a build log up soon...

Is that a Sync Link you're using or a ghetto fabbed one? looks smart, loads of room around the ITBs now with that shroud! are the fuel rails inboard?

Look forward to updates dude

Edit... Ah ha an update... good work, bet you're chuffed with that! Can't wait to here how much better it drives now...

[richie]

Well it runs! it doesn't stop, but it runs  think i need to add a diode in there somewhere apparently? i'll work it out.

1st well done, thats quite a days work 

Diode goes between alt light and wire,stops it backfeeding, only works one way round so test if before making permanent 

cheers Richie

[spoolin70]

not got it ready for work though so going to run to work tonight and stay there, cycle back tomorrow and get on it!!

Now that's commitment right there 

Good progress, glad it's going better after your earlier problems. Porsche fan looks great !!

You don't need a diode, it's your engine telling you it wants to keep playing 

Thanks
Darren

[andy198712]

How about today?

That shorud really does look good, cost a pretty penny though eh?!

Good work on getting as far as you did, fuel system sounds good and does away with a swirl pot so it'll be cool if that works out... Picked up some GSXR ITBs after what you said the other day off eBay from an early 2000s bike so should split for my IDA manifolds, just bought another few bits off Richie too so I'll get a build log up soon...

Is that a Sync Link you're using or a ghetto fabbed one? looks smart, loads of room around the ITBs now with that shroud! are the fuel rails inboard?

Look forward to updates dude

Edit... Ah ha an update... good work, bet you're chuffed with that! Can't wait to here how much better it drives now...

Hi!
I did the 911 thing on the cheap, £120 for fan and ring and alt, shroud wasn't much more if memory serves me or less..., and mount was £30, strap I made from £3 of stainless and some bolts it's 75 or more amps the alternator I forget, so not bad!

Looks lush and highlights my crappy engine bay lol

Score on the ITBs I wish I had those kind, a lot easier to work with!

It's ghetto, made the second pulley out of a spare set of throttle bodies I had

I've got the rails outboard, needed a little hammering on the right hand side for clearance

[andy198712]

Well it runs! it doesn't stop, but it runs  think i need to add a diode in there somewhere apparently? i'll work it out.

1st well done, thats quite a days work 

Diode goes between alt light and wire,stops it backfeeding, only works one way round so test if before making permanent 

cheers Richie

Cool I'll splice that inline somewhere then yh the ring on it goes on the side towards the reg apparently.... But a lot easier to test like you say before soldering it lol
Can't wait to feel it's new found power too!
The engine sounds a lot smoother and happier even with balancing the throttle bodies by eye and hand! Once I got it running with the the linkage correctly I'll sync them with my quad vac gauges.

Also what was nice was that my ECU was seeing idle at about 40-50 kpa which nice and low! I had heard ITBs were bad for idle vacuum.
Also just running it on MAP at the min, will add the TPS later and can blend the two maps on mega squirt.

Still lots to do but getting there!

Cheers for all your help Richie!

[andy198712]

not got it ready for work though so going to run to work tonight and stay there, cycle back tomorrow and get on it!!

Now that's commitment right there 

Good progress, glad it's going better after your earlier problems. Porsche fan looks great !!

You don't need a diode, it's your engine telling you it wants to keep playing 

Thanks
Darren

Cheers 
Yh coming up to about 3k miles or more now which is cool. Will prob strip it next year to check it over ect
I'm loving the fan!! I know there short falls but that look!

I thought that as I turned the key the first time lol what have I created!!

[andy198712]

[andy198712]

That's how it looks today

Needs tidying and P clipping ect. Want to remove the VW dianostics socket too as it takes up space.

I looked at my linkage again today as I didn't feel the right bank was returning to its stop all that well, brought another throttle cable to try for that side.

It's tempting to go to a splitter type linkage like motorbikes do, main cable, into a splitter, then one cable to each TB. We will see.

So on a plus, the engine stops when I want now! Soldered in that diode and she works well 

Took it for a drive and adjusted down the 3000rpm idle I had at one point....

I tried to balance the two banks with my vacuum gauges but got close and gave up, I need a few meters of vacuum hose to do it right so will order that up, then disconnect the cable linkage and sync them right.

Took it for a drive and started on the tuning. I really need to buy the full version of tuner studio as it does this for you but that'll wait till pay day.

I also had issues with it flooding on restart, removing the fuel pump fuse would let me start it (hence I knew it was flooding) I noticed it had a setting that was pulsing a bank of injectors while cranking, turning this off solved it so it seems.

So many settlings to setup and work out, then came the actual tuning, which with a wide band is do-able and fun!
It was very rich to start with 10afr ect so worked on that. Slowly working WOT from 10 up a bit at a time, will aim for about 12 to be safe at first, think I'm at 11.3 now?...

The bit I find hard to get my head around, and again probably a setting for it under accell enrichment, but if you gently cruise through a cell, it's okay being that value, but if you move through that cell under load (on the ve table) it's too lean.... If that makes sense

Lots to learn but at least I know I have it on a safer side of things being on the richer side.

The 911 fan makes an interesting noise at high rpm, say above 4K, like a super charger whine almost, or whistle... I love it!

The engine deffinatly has an induction roar now too! But I still need filters too, thinking filter socks, as its seemly impossible to find dual filters that exact spacing, some K&Ns come close and may work I've seen....


Hey ho! Lots on at work at the mo which is keeping me busy, decommissioning of my squadron, 771 search and rescue.

Cheers

[andy198712]

Couple work pics tarted up for a parade and #27 is being a "display model"

[Lukej]

What are your thoughts on the oil pressure at the minute? IIRC VW state 28 psi @2500rpm with 30wt oil... That's about the only solid spec I know of on these... Obviously your're running the HVX mods so it's not unreasonable to see lower than this but as someone pointed out it's the flow that's equally important... You notched the rods didn't you? That'll surely relieves the pressure there... Hmm I guess time will tell?

Giving me a good bit of motivation here, got my trigger wheel out at work today, was planning on making a boss to mount it on a stock pressed steel pulley, got it centred in the lathe then got called to a job! don't you hate it when that happens!!!
I do like your flywheel though...

Your MS... where have you taken the live from? I've added an aux fuse board behind the back seat supplied straight from the battery via a relay... Haven't decided what to energise 86 from yet though, probably just an ignition live. That way I am not using any of the OG wiring for the WBO2, fuel pump, ECU etc etc... I think supply voltage fluctuations killed my Innovate LC-1... Not sure, gone for an MTX-L this time though, supposed to be a much better system and uses the Bosch LSU4.9 sensor too... I also intend to run all of the earths back to a common post somewhere on/near the aux fuse board...

Throttle linkage, I have a colleague big into motorbikes... I mentioned cable splitters to him and he said that was the best solution... I think yours is better in terms of syncing the two banks together but a cable splitter has fewer moving parts... That appeals to me


Decommissioning? Making way for new ones or downsizing the fleet/cost cutting?! In my industry it's increasingly more of the latter :/

[andy198712]

What are your thoughts on the oil pressure at the minute? IIRC VW state 28 psi @2500rpm with 30wt oil... That's about the only solid spec I know of on these... Obviously your're running the HVX mods so it's not unreasonable to see lower than this but as someone pointed out it's the flow that's equally important... You notched the rods didn't you? That'll surely relieves the pressure there... Hmm I guess time will tell?

Giving me a good bit of motivation here, got my trigger wheel out at work today, was planning on making a boss to mount it on a stock pressed steel pulley, got it centred in the lathe then got called to a job! don't you hate it when that happens!!!
I do like your flywheel though...

Your MS... where have you taken the live from? I've added an aux fuse board behind the back seat supplied straight from the battery via a relay... Haven't decided what to energise 86 from yet though, probably just an ignition live. That way I am not using any of the OG wiring for the WBO2, fuel pump, ECU etc etc... I think supply voltage fluctuations killed my Innovate LC-1... Not sure, gone for an MTX-L this time though, supposed to be a much better system and uses the Bosch LSU4.9 sensor too... I also intend to run all of the earths back to a common post somewhere on/near the aux fuse board...

Throttle linkage, I have a colleague big into motorbikes... I mentioned cable splitters to him and he said that was the best solution... I think yours is better in terms of syncing the two banks together but a cable splitter has fewer moving parts... That appeals to me


Decommissioning? Making way for new ones or downsizing the fleet/cost cutting?! In my industry it's increasingly more of the latter :/

My thoughts are that its working i haven't really thought about it too much tbh, i did notch the rods but i think more oil pressure is lost via the oil gallery mods to the heads then the notch in the side of the rods, that just gives it a direction i feel? would depend on rod side play maybe? food for thought though! haven't checked the pressure in a while either tbh, could be a job to do

i was going to go for stock pulley till i was set on the 911 fan as a power pulley is recommend for them, something always gets i the way though!

i have two relays, the main one is fed from the battery and activated via an ignition live that is also live during cranking  (important to check) and the other is the fuel pump relay which is piggy backed off the main relay but triggered by the ECU. that one just feeds my fuel pump. PLX sm-6 i think my WB02, works nice, touch screen gauge but you always have it on the same screen anyways 

the linkage seems to be ok now but i've ordered some other cable to try thats more flexi and better (i hope) so will try that! also ordered a load of silicone vacuum hose to hook up my syncing gauges better and get that sorted as its still not right i don't think.

the Navy lost SAR to a civi company, due to them putting in a cheaper bid, wether it lasts or not i don't know, bit bitter about it tbh  hey ho!!


today i had a mare of a time starting it from cold (warm day) yesterday it started a lot easier, but was a lot richer then too, I've since leaned the map a lot to help with driving but for cold start it has hindered it, and i don't have a temp sensor yet so i'm kinda at a loss although i think i can make it richer by timings after start up on the eco too, but sorting a temp sensor is the main fix i will be doing.

[modnrod]

the Navy lost SAR to a civi company, due to them putting in a cheaper bid, wether it lasts or not i don't know, bit bitter about it tbh  hey ho!!

they did the same thing to me while in the Service many years ago with maintenance contracts and equipment upgrades, it ended up in a full inquiry due to serious damage to ships (and men......) and also major degradation of systems operation. After the usual few years of finger-pointing and politicking it reverted back again.

YOU know you've done the job well, that's what matters.

Oh, nice engine write up, thanks man. 

[andy198712]

the Navy lost SAR to a civi company, due to them putting in a cheaper bid, wether it lasts or not i don't know, bit bitter about it tbh  hey ho!!

they did the same thing to me while in the Service many years ago with maintenance contracts and equipment upgrades, it ended up in a full inquiry due to serious damage to ships (and men......) and also major degradation of systems operation. After the usual few years of finger-pointing and politicking it reverted back again.

YOU know you've done the job well, that's what matters.

Oh, nice engine write up, thanks man. 

Yeah text book sadly! always the same.... anyway i'll not whinge too much here 

So! the mapping continues! i really enjoy this sort of thing.

after leaning up the map it in the lower rev ranges. it ran nice so i thought, BUT starting from cold took a good 20 attempts! it would fire fine for a second or two, then die out.
this needed more fuel and i tried it via the warm up settings but due to not having a temp sensor for that yet i was a bit stuck, so i adjusted a couple settings to give it a tad more fuel for the first 45 seconds and that got me half way there, then richened the map in idle and that made it idle nice from cold no worries! now idles about 13:1 ish if i real right. and i smoothed out the map, but it helped a lot and pulls great now from down low, right off idle (at partial throttle )which the carb wouldn't be happy under 2k rpm! really enjoyable! still got issues and bugs to work out, but its getting there.

Vac line arrived, and new light cable too for the linkage, its 7 strands but strand is made of 19 thinner ones so very flexi!

should let me balance the TBIs nicely now

also need to sort out a TPS, i have one but no plug and its tight in the plug so hard to solder and epoxy wires too. i'll sort something, that will help with acceleration enrichment.

i'm slowly adjusting the map and you can feel the engine pulling harder and harder as i tune it, and i'm still one a very mild ignition map, 25 degrees MAX!

thats where i am now!

[andy198712]

Well, this morning at near 0 temps, it started second turn of the key and a little rev, then no throttle needed, so i'm getting there! already its way better then the carb before! which to be fair was not in anyway suited to this role!

hopefully fit my TPS today, just working out the wiring with that. 3 wires, checking the resistance change as i open the throttle to decide which is +,- and signal wire. that will let me do acceleration enrichment.
also emailing Mario @ TheDubShop in the states who makes a temp sensor which bolts onto a tinware screw and does a great job, and also the ecu is already calibrated for this sensors range. he takes apart a GM sensor and mods and extends it. i was thinking of doing this my self, but his looks nice and comes with the bare plug to wire into my loom to make for a neat install....

that'll give me the warm up enrichment so i can lean out my VE map nicely where needed

its coming together! also very fun!

i'm still very rich in areas, like 10.0 on my gauge, and it only goes down to 10! so will address those ASAP!

Oh and i need to sort out some filters, try the new throttle cable wire, and sync the TBIs, maybe look at making some sort of vacuum plenum to smooth out the MAP signal, mines pretty jumpy i noticed! i can do it with a plenum or a needle valve... will give something a go!

AND tidy up the engine bay and get things covered and P clipped.

the speedo swings to 70mph pretty quickly now! time to look at front disks 

[andy198712]

School boy error time again.

Well, lets just call it BETA stage testing adjustment or something...

i redid my linking cable today between my TBIs with a a new super flexi cable which has mad it a lot better IMO although not driven it yet. its called 7x19, so normally you get about 7 strands of metal in he cable, this is like that but each of the 7 strands is made up for 19 very fine ones, so allows it to be very strong and super flexi.... its stainless steel, but my normal solder did ok....
boring lesson over... i now don't need a huge return spring which is cool!

so did that, ran some wires for my TPS sensor for the ECU, fitted that, then switched on the laptop, foot off the pedal, calibrated for throttle closed so 0%, foot to the floor calibrated for 100%

then i thought.... i'll just jam the pedal down and see if i'm getting WOT at the TBIs..... phfffff hardly! shortened my main cable from the pedal to give me proper WOT, turned on the laptop again, foot to the floor gave 140%! so i was only getting 71% throttle before.... not driven it yet so will see what its like tomorrow! sadly its raining though but hey ho!

i now need to read up on acceleration enrichment settings!

cheers!

Andy

[andy198712]

  it turns out 100% throttle is pretty quick, i brought the full version of Tunerstudio and it has an AUTO TUNE feature on it, where you input your target AFRs in a graph and it tunes it for you, pretty well i must say! its now running pretty smooth! well a 100 times better then the carb, low end is so smooth now, starting is a turn the key, little throttle and it holds idle right away at 1k rpm.

3rd gear roll ons from 30mph to 70mph as smooth and surprisingly fast 

i also spent some time balancing the TBI's too, there not perfect but pretty close and my gauges are pretty sensitive. runs well, revs up great right from idle!

i took my mum out at her request, explained the TS software first and sat the laptop on her lap, she loved it! well i think she did, she said "that was a one time experience" which i think is good 

tidied up my wiring and vac lines ect too, think i'll sort something to smooth the vac signal

[spoolin70]

Hi Andy - great progress your making.

My last engine had a quite an uneven map sensor signal from one plenum on the throttle body. Instead of having 4 vacuum/pressure pipes into a single collector, we simply fitted a reducer/restrictor  (inch or so length of metal rod with a small bore) to the pipe and it smoothed the signal right out.

I can't remember the exact bore of the hole but it was surprisingly small - possibly 1mm or so.

Might be worth a try
Darren

[andy198712]

cheers bud!

i'm planning a needle valve.

my vac gauges use it, basically when open the needle jumps wildly, so you wind it in, reducing the ID till the needle is steady but still reacts, like your idea just different way about it.

pretty sure you can get them in pet shops for fish tank air stones ect.... i may even have one kicking about to try...

[modnrod]

i'm planning a needle valve.

aaaahh. Lightweight race version of vice grips then.......
 

[andy198712]

i'm planning a needle valve.

aaaahh. Lightweight race version of vice grips then.......
 

yh modern aircraft grade plastic.

did the trick though!
that and teeing all the 4 vac ports together then in. i still get very low vac at cruise but thats an ITB thing it seems.  i'll need to do some serious thinking to get around that one! i did read about adding one way valves on 3 of the 4 vac lines, so it can draw vac off 3 but only leak back off one.... he said it worked great but i haven't quite got my head around that yet!

till i get a coolant sensor sorted there isn't a lot i can do much more i don't think, other then play with settings and let it auto tune some more

the car pulls really hard in the low to mids as you roll on, lots of get up and go! love it!

and the induction sound from the ITB's is crazy!

BUT i must get some filters sorted out! i'm away with work from tuesday for just under two weeks and i'll buy some filter socks while i'm away

[Lukej]

Great progress, maybe you'd be better off reverting to only part throttle to save that gearbox a little
Sounds like the full version of TS was well worth it, I'm looking forward to getting stuck in again... Strange idea on the one way valves... Makes sense though I guess... I'm using this thread as the R&D phase of my build so keep the updates coming

[andy198712]

Here's some R and D, don't use metal epoxy to make your manifold, just broke mine... Think something hit the body as I changed hard first to second....
Went lean and I pulled over, throttle bodies resting on the manifolds....
Just used some ally braze weld stuff, the low temp alumweld stuff so will get it back together tomorrow.

Will make mk2 manifolds come pay day!

Bummed oh well! My fault

[andy198712]

Fixed them with some of that aluminium braze rods, feels solid and will hold till the mk2!

Thinking hillbourne style cut down as they'll be more in board..

[andy198712]

waiting on the hill borne manifolds to arrive from the states....


brought some air filters too, pic to follow.

been playing with the eco a lot, tuning the VE table, get it starting nicely. also waiting on a CLT sensor from the states too which will use head temp instead of coolant, this will allow me to tune it for warm up enrichment.

currently set my limiter down to 5500 soft and 6000 rpm hard, its such an easy engine to rev i feel this would help me make it last 

i'm at 28 degrees WOT advance, and 12.5 AFR WOT -/+ 0.15 AFR  which isn't bad. will have to find a local dyne and do a power run. also need to fit a better oil cooler block off as mine leaks a tad. also got a small leak from my full flow fitting where the barb screws into the elbow so will redo that.
just little niggles that i can iron out. oil and filter change done the other day, 3k miles on the engine now and tuning better then ever now i have EFI! pulls really nicely and well mannered! just a bit of a beast if you want it to be (and i normally do)