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Author Topic: Oil levels with extended sump  (Read 4360 times)
Richierich56
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« on: March 12, 2016, 18:22:02 pm »

Hi all. My 2180 type 1 motor is fitted with a Scat deep sump - pretty sure its a 1.5 quart item and the dipstick is stock length.

I've read a couple of different things regarding oil level on the dipstick with a particular article I read written by John Maher saying that oil should be level with the bottom of the dipstick - not sure if he was referring to street use or otherwise.

I want to be sure obviously so just wondered what the general consensus was regarding this? I'm currently running the oil level halfway between the min and max marks with no apparent problems. How does everyone else run theirs?
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leec
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« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 18:48:17 pm »

My motor, 2276cc with 3.5L empi sump I make sure the oil just touches the bottom of the dip stick. Street and race at that level with no issues

Lee
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Taylor
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« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2016, 19:54:31 pm »

I have always run mine to the low line.  If you run a 1.5 quart sump and run the motor 1.5 quarts low then all you have accomplished is taking the cam out of oil while running. 
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 19:57:06 pm by Taylor » Logged
henk
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2016, 20:38:33 pm »

On my 2110 i also do it untill the bottom line on the dipstick.

Henk!!!
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2016, 21:41:02 pm »



I've read a couple of different things regarding oil level on the dipstick with a particular article I read written by John Maher saying that oil should be level with the bottom of the dipstick

Was it bottom of the dipstick or bottom line of the dipstick?
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Richierich56
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2016, 23:02:58 pm »

Thanks guys. Nico - very bottom of the dipstick. It does make sense as obviously the stock dipstick does not bottom out in the extended sump - I just wanted to be sure.
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andy198712
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2016, 23:36:37 pm »

How are you checking it too makes a big difference I find with my filter and external cooler.... When cold is quie different to after a min of cool down after running
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Bruce
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2016, 23:47:15 pm »

The stock engine case holds 2.5 liters.
Add a small sump of 1.5 liters, =4 liters total.
Add a filter and the lines to it, another liter.  Total = 5 liters.

Fill to the bottom line, you're down to 4 liters.  To the tip of the dip stick; now you're at 3 liters.  
One liter is locked away in the filter at all times.
This leaves only 2 liters as a reserve in the sump.

What then is the point of adding a deep sump?  If you want to have only 2 liters in the engine, just keep it stock and run it half way between the two lines.

 I'm currently running the oil level halfway between the min and max marks with no apparent problems.
Problem solved.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 23:50:00 pm by Bruce » Logged
leec
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2016, 23:59:24 pm »

Bruce, your example only works if a small capacity deep sump is added. With a 3.5 litre like mine fitted there is still way more oil 'in the engine' than stock. With a smaller sump it makes sense to fill the engine with oil further up the dipstick.

Lee
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dragvw2180
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2016, 01:25:03 am »

On my turbo engine with a 4 quart sump , Oberg and lines I run it to the bottom line.
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2016, 15:06:38 pm »

The stock engine case holds 2.5 liters.
Add a small sump of 1.5 liters, =4 liters total.
Add a filter and the lines to it, another liter.  Total = 5 liters.

Fill to the bottom line, you're down to 4 liters.  To the tip of the dip stick; now you're at 3 liters.  
One liter is locked away in the filter at all times.
This leaves only 2 liters as a reserve in the sump.

What then is the point of adding a deep sump?  If you want to have only 2 liters in the engine, just keep it stock and run it half way between the two lines.

 I'm currently running the oil level halfway between the min and max marks with no apparent problems.
Problem solved.

That's what I thought too (only speaking of a 1.5 liter sump here). With full-flow oil lines and filter, keeping oil level between min and max marks on the dipstick like you would do on a stock engine?  Huh
« Last Edit: March 13, 2016, 15:08:49 pm by Nico86 » Logged

Richierich56
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Posts: 153


« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2016, 16:44:55 pm »

The stock engine case holds 2.5 liters.
Add a small sump of 1.5 liters, =4 liters total.
Add a filter and the lines to it, another liter.  Total = 5 liters.

Fill to the bottom line, you're down to 4 liters.  To the tip of the dip stick; now you're at 3 liters.  
One liter is locked away in the filter at all times.
This leaves only 2 liters as a reserve in the sump.

What then is the point of adding a deep sump?  If you want to have only 2 liters in the engine, just keep it stock and run it half way between the two lines.

 I'm currently running the oil level halfway between the min and max marks with no apparent problems.
Problem solved.

That's what I thought too (only speaking of a 1.5 liter sump here). With full-flow oil lines and filter, keeping oil level between min and max marks on the dipstick like you would do on a stock engine?  Huh

This is my point, so many different opinions - its sometimes difficult to know whats correct!!!!
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dragvw2180
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2016, 17:55:13 pm »

  LOL , too low and you risk running out of oil, too high and it will hit the crank . I think anywhere between the bottom of the dipstick and the bottom line will be good unless you drive very aggressively like I do , then I would increase your capacity to 4 quart sump . JMHO  Mike McCarthy
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2016, 18:10:03 pm »

The stock engine case holds 2.5 liters.
Add a small sump of 1.5 liters, =4 liters total.
Add a filter and the lines to it, another liter.  Total = 5 liters.

Fill to the bottom line, you're down to 4 liters.  To the tip of the dip stick; now you're at 3 liters.  
One liter is locked away in the filter at all times.
This leaves only 2 liters as a reserve in the sump.

What then is the point of adding a deep sump?  If you want to have only 2 liters in the engine, just keep it stock and run it half way between the two lines.

 I'm currently running the oil level halfway between the min and max marks with no apparent problems.
Problem solved.

That's what I thought too (only speaking of a 1.5 liter sump here). With full-flow oil lines and filter, keeping oil level between min and max marks on the dipstick like you would do on a stock engine?  Huh

This is my point, so many different opinions - its sometimes difficult to know whats correct!!!!

I think if you have been running your engine that way without any problem then you are good.
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Bruce
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2016, 22:52:08 pm »

..... too high and it will hit the crank .
In order for that to happen, you would have to fill the engine a long way above the top line on the dip stick.  Since nobody does that, this problem never exists.
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Nico86
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Turnip engine.


« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2016, 00:00:39 am »

..... too high and it will hit the crank .
In order for that to happen, you would have to fill the engine a long way above the top line on the dip stick.  Since nobody does that, this problem never exists.

Plus the oil would have to go up from the additional sump to the engine case and over the oil pick-up. Well it can happen I guess but you'd have to drive really hard  Huh
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Zach Gomulka
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« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2016, 00:03:42 am »

..... too high and it will hit the crank .
In order for that to happen, you would have to fill the engine a long way above the top line on the dip stick.  Since nobody does that, this problem never exists.

And the engine will relieve itself of the extra oil past the oil slinger, and end up coating your engine compartment. Or so I've heard Roll Eyes
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Born in the '80s, stuck in the '70s.
dragvw2180
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Posts: 302



« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2016, 02:19:43 am »

 I left the line pretty hard, red car, LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJZrEFElU24         Mike McCarthy
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modnrod
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Posts: 800


Old School Volksies


« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2016, 11:15:08 am »

Wasn't it the Ramchargers who fitted a camera or a window into the side of the sump on their Wedge super stockers to watch what the oil was doing?
They had 8L sumps with deep pans, but on launch (and this is with '60s cheaters not real slicks) ALL the oil went up the back of the block, all 8L, and uncovered the pick-up for most of first gear.

What about just having a small F.Vee mini-sump and an accusump into the top oil gallery, job done.
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Jim Ratto
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Posts: 7113



« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2016, 22:41:18 pm »

Hello,

I run a Berg 3.5 qt on my street car, since 1996. I run my oil level between "Low" line and "Full" line on original VW dipstick (like if the engine was stock).

When I change oil, I replace about 7.75 qt of oil.
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