Is type4 engine cal look?

[j-f]

I have a dilemma.

I can buy a type4 2.4l engine with a Porsche 915 gearbox.
Engine is ready to run, freshly rebuild and was used years ago in a racing 1303. Win lots of race of all kind as endurance or sprint. Gearbox is equipped with a Torsen differential. It is a bulletproof combo.
It is given for +/- 200hp.
But, I was planning to make a cal look with a late 70's look. I know I'm wrong with this engine. But it is a good deal and maybe the only opportunity I will have to drive a bug with a 200hp reliable engine.

What could I do? Buy it, enjoy it and don't have the look I 'm looking for? Or build a mild type1 of 130hp and feel that I miss something... Or change my plan I make a contemporary cal look as we can see nowadays with this type4 in ?

That's hard to choose between the spirit I'm looking for and the fun to have a really powerful engine.   

[speedwell]

spirit j-f  , you know what i think j-f  ...........
 

[Rick Meredith]

There's always the German Look 

Ultimately,would that motor allow you to build the car of your dreams?

[speedwell]

j-f take the engine and put this one for sale and take the money and put it on a type 1

[j-f]

There's always the German Look 

Ultimately,would that motor allow you to build the car of your dreams?

German look? No thanks 
I will have a car that will push hard. And for me, this engine is a good solution. 

Fab, you know that's I'm under Pasco's influence  He raced first a type1 with  lots of problems and when He turns into type4, he broke no more engine. But we don't have the same spirit. He like race bug, I want a cal look. 

But, I feel stupid to don't use this race proven engine and use a less powerful engine for maybe the same price. 

And take a look at Bakers's car for sale on oldbug. It has a Porsche Fan and a good spirit. But, is this car cal look or not? That's a good question. 

[Eddie DVK]

Isn t cal look about performance engines.?
ok ok i know how most cal look guys think about this...

Is it with a porsche cooling??

But i am talking about building a typ 4 engine, not with a porsche cooling (that s  geman look),
but with a typ 1 upright cooling(CSP kit), also known as a Cali conversion.
I can tell you when done right it looks the same as a typ 1.
Not a lot of people would notice the difference, they see something is wrong but can t tell you what.
 
I currently building one for my cal look beetle.

so I would say go for it.

Ps or maybe keep our lids closed at shows...

[j-f]

Isn t cal look about performance engines.?
ok ok i know how most cal look guys think about this...

Is it with a porsche cooling??

But i am talking about building a typ 4 engine, not with a porsche cooling (that s  geman look),
but with a typ 1 upright cooling(CSP kit), also known as a Cali conversion.
I can tell you when done right it looks the same as a typ 1.
Not a lot of people would notice the difference, they see something is wrong but can t tell you what.
 
I currently building one for my cal look beetle.

so I would say go for it.

Ps or maybe keep our lids closed at shows...

The problem is that if I want build a period looker, I should respect some rules. And a type4 is not correct for what I'm looking for.
And for the type1 cooling kit, I don't know if it is enough too cool a "big" engine.

And no, Cal look is not only about engine for me, but happiness is an hot VW, isn't it ?

 

[guillaume]

I agree with you Eddie. Moreover, some gasser and some slalom VWs used 914 or late 356 Type 4 engine, so why not in a cal look? But use this engine with a Type 1 adaptaion cooling fan, it is better for the look ;-)

Or is it possible to use a type 4 and install a 356 / 912 cooling fan on it ?

[empicolector]

I have a dilemma.

I can buy a type4 2.4l engine with a Porsche 915 gearbox.
Engine is ready to run, freshly rebuild and was used years ago in a racing 1303. Win lots of race of all kind as endurance or sprint. Gearbox is equipped with a Torsen differential. It is a bulletproof combo.
It is given for +/- 200hp.
But, I was planning to make a cal look with a late 70's look. I know I'm wrong with this engine. But it is a good deal and maybe the only opportunity I will have to drive a bug with a 200hp reliable engine.

What could I do? Buy it, enjoy it and don't have the look I 'm looking for? Or build a mild type1 of 130hp and feel that I miss something... Or change my plan I make a contemporary cal look as we can see nowadays with this type4 in ?

That's hard to choose between the spirit I'm looking for and the fun to have a really powerful engine.   

for me its
NO, NO, and NO

[Eddie DVK]

The problem is that if I want build a period looker, I should respect some rules

What rules?? I respect some of the rules.
ok the stance, no chrome, the wheels ,the big motor.

But hey if we would follow all the rules we would end up with the same cars..
aren t the best cal look cars the ones that are different from the others.

So there is a big vw engine out there that is perfect for tuning so why not use it.

but happiness is an hot VW, isn't it ?

that s for sure.

[Bewitched666]

I would say go with the type 4 engine if its suits your needs.

callook is al about performance like said but you have die hards

[Sam K]

This is a tough call. I personally wouldn't consider a type 4 "cal-look", but I know that you can make a lot of power with a type 4, which is what cal-look is all about, to me at least. I've actually been thinking about putting a subaru WRX engine into my '63/'73 bug which is definitely not cal-look, but I can't argue with 300+ reliable horsepower for $2500. Plus I know a lot about subaru's. I say build whatever makes you happy and screw anybody who doesn't like it! 

[Rennsurfer]

There is no right or wrong with this... it's rather simple, really. If you want to build the Type 4 mated to the 915 transmission, then so be it. You'll probably end up liking it. The Type 4 engine is a great base to start from to achieve a high output unit. I'm sure that the transmission will also be more beefier. Both pluses in my opinion.

Like everything that I approach in my life... the rules are; THERE ARE NONE. It's your car, therefore, do what ever you'd like. But most of all, have fun. Keep us posted on which decision you ended up with. 

[Rob DVKK]

I've had both in my 54.

914 2.0L with all the right stuff, proper 2.0L heads (worked over a bit) and a bunch of stuff from FAT - cam, exhaust and BAS 911 cooling etc... Switched my swing to IRS. Thought it would be something a little different, but it never really lived up to my expectations.

Wasn't anywhere near as fun to drive as my T-1 1914 (42x37.5 - E125 with 1.25 rockers). Ran the same 45 dells on both motors and had better et's with the 1914. The extra weight of the motor and the fact that I wasn't needing to have a motor that would go 250,000 between rebuilds made me change. Plus I kind of got sick of that Porsche cooling. It seems that everyone and their sister now-a-days has a 911 shroud.

If you need a motor that is big to begin with because you're not wanting to touch it other than valve adjustments and oil changes go with the T-4 if you have it available - just be ready for the fact that it they need some different thinking to get the performance you want (http://www.aircooledtechnology.com/Home_Page.htm is a good place to start)

If your like me and are always tweaking - T-1's have a lot more options to choose from IMO.  Now have a 2275 - 13.2 @ 104 through 3 stock gears.


  

[John Rayburn]

You're the man, Mark!

[Rennsurfer]

You're the man, Mark!

Not me... the person that you're describing is often the one having the most fun. Same applies to when I go surfing, skateboarding, or eating food. I just hope he's happy with whatever he ends up doing with his engine/transmission choice.

[Torben Alstrup]

Install the type 4 and forget about it. It may not be absolutely correct in looks, but who cares, as long as you dont open the decklid. It may be a tad slower on the strip, but it will last a loong time.

And Rob, its an unfair compariison to  put a mild 2 liter 914 along side of a 1914 with a W 125 cam etc. But I will grant you that there are a lot of parts out there for the type 1, and not much chinese stuff for the type 4.
T

[Rob DVKK]

Install the type 4 and forget about it. It may not be absolutely correct in looks, but who cares, as long as you dont open the decklid. It may be a tad slower on the strip, but it will last a loong time.

And Rob, its an unfair compariison to  put a mild 2 liter 914 along side of a 1914 with a W 125 cam etc. But I will grant you that there are a lot of parts out there for the type 1, and not much chinese stuff for the type 4.
T

Hi Torben,

If this motor is a 200hp motor it's nothing to sneeze at. 200 is 200. It is just a different beast with a endurance race 915 box. Put it with a close ratio box and you might have me sold.

As for my type 4 the motor wasn't exactly mild. The cam I used was pretty close to a E120 and the heads were proper 2.0l big valve head, with a more port work than my 044 castings. There just different types of engines and they like different things - one loves air speed the other volume. If I was going to be running on the freeway all the time I would probably have stuck with the type 4. It was a strong runner and I would never have to worry about a constant 5000rpm on a road trip.This motor just wasn't what I had expected not what I had expected after reading a lot of the information available here in canada at the time (back in the 90's).

Now having read most of Jake Raby's info and testing on the type 4 motor I would build another one if I was going to to build a 2700cc monster. When I look at what Juhani Jyränkö is doing with a type 4 it makes me wish I would have stuck with it, maybe I would have learn a few more tricks before giving up on it. After reading about Johannes Persson 1600 I wonder what could be done with a proper 2275. I guess the motor might be coming out again.

As for the chinese stuff - you get what you pay for. The R&D into type 4 motors just hasn't been around as long as type 1. The type 4 stuff has caught up fast, but most of the really good stuff is still exotic when compared to a set of off the shelf wedge ports and a 82mm demello crank.

Cheers

R.

[nicolas]

do it. i have heard that a good porsche style fan will cool better and allow for more CR in a type 1 and yet not many people run them. if you looks at the canadian callookers there are a lot of porsche fans in that club. and the cars look good (OK, Lanny has a type1 setup and won all the welldeserved prices, but...  )
really go for what you feel is best to do, but buy what you really want or else you invest money twice, there is always costs to addapt stuff and get it going. unless you can buy it dirtcheap and sell it afterwards without losing money and being able to buy what you really like.
as for the callook or not... mark herbert was going IRS after the crash with his black bug and that wasn't popular at that time (still isn't) but IRS has it's advantages over swingaxles.

[Eddie DVK]

There is no right or wrong with this... it's rather simple, really. If you want to build the Type 4 mated to the 915 transmission, then so be it. You'll probably end up liking it. The Type 4 engine is a great base to start from to achieve a high output unit. I'm sure that the transmission will also be more beefier. Both pluses in my opinion.

Like everything that I approach in my life... the rules are; THERE ARE NONE. It's your car, therefore, do what ever you'd like. But most of all, have fun. Keep us posted on which decision you ended up with. 

Well said mark, thanks thats good thinking.

If I was going to be running on the freeway all the time I would probably have stuck with the type 4. It was a strong runner and I would never have to worry about a constant 5000rpm on a road trip

Hey this is why choose it. i just want a easy driving, strong engine that I can drive across europe to shows.
And I live in Holland, some 100km near germany, where we have some good typ 4 tuners for parts and advice.

[TOM / EINHEIT 11]

i would say there are 2 ways to go. if u wanna keep the traditional  cal- look, kruzn your local streets, go to the dragstrip at the weekends, keep your costs low........a typ 1  engine will be perfect.
If U wanna hit the AUTOBAHN, make 160km/h speed for longer then just a quarter mile, do rallys and touring  stuff.....U should buy the typ 4 engine

cheers TOM / EINHEIT 11

[Fastbrit]

I'm with 'Fred' – there are no rules...

200+bhp, a ton of torque and an unbreakable gearbox? Sounds like heaven to me...

Buy it, try it and then decide. You can always sell and go the Type 1 route later.

[alex d]

I say go for it 

[71CALRIPPER]

And our survey says


DO IT

[Zach Gomulka]

As long as it uses a normal shroud (no 911, no DTM), I say go for it

[benssp]

No

[Harry/FDK]

Do It.

[Rick Meredith]

Should've made this one a poll! 

[SOB/RFH]

This is a silly question!!! Yada Yada Yada!!!! Is it Cal look not to win a street- or drag race.......bring the biggest, baddest gun and hope you brought enough!!!!

So living on the street takes it's toll....going with a new school aluminum type 1 case with lots of stroke and 4" bore or a stock Volkswagen aluminum case and the same specs........It is just two ways of skinning a cat.

I went the type 4 route with NOS back in the early 90''s....same motor minus NOS is still with me....needs some TLC and shows its age but holding up! That is 17 years and still running.....like low 12's NA in street trim