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Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
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Topic: Sarge, when did transaxles start living? (Read 6363 times)
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
on:
August 20, 2008, 21:10:09 pm »
Sarge how did you and your brothers keep your gearboxes alive back in the stone ages? Were guys spitting out diff carriers left and right or what? (oh wait they only come out left-ways). Was it the off road guys that taught everybody else how to keep a tranny together when abused? Seems like the drag guys just accepted trans breakage, even with Porsche stuff? Tell us about your Hurst Slicks story in alley behind F.A.T.
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Sarge
Hero Member
Posts: 4345
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #1 on:
August 20, 2008, 22:19:12 pm »
Ssssshhhh... I'm not supposed to be on here at work, remember? As for transmissions, I broke my share with the '63. Fortunatly, most of us ran 165 X 15 tires back then otherwise there would have been more carnage. Solid mounts and the newly invented traction bar helped out, too. My only dealings with slicks was a costly one. Greg Aronson had just taken delivery on a set of Hurst slicks (at the original F&A shop on Howell) and "pestered" me into trying them out behind the shop. The first hit was a little bit of wheel hop, so he told me to really hammer it good the next time. Lucky it was a short push into the shop
. I had Lee Leighton's son Mike do the box in the sandrail after a couple of early failures there and never had another problem. As for the '67, that was done by Jim Kaforski, and knock-on-wood, has been a nice piece. A lot of trans failures happen from failure to use the handbrake to "load" the box before blast off IMO.
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DKP III
John Rayburn
Hero Member
Posts: 2481
Der Kleiner Panzers
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #2 on:
August 21, 2008, 01:07:17 am »
I hope Greg at least helped you fix your box!
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dirk zeyen
Sr. Member
Posts: 292
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #3 on:
August 21, 2008, 22:04:08 pm »
hello sarge "A lot of trans failures happen from failure to use the handbrake to "load" the box before blast off IMO"
can you explain this?
dirk zeyen
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Rennsurfer
Hero Member
Posts: 7391
D.B.O. Not a club; a state of mind.
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #4 on:
August 22, 2008, 00:49:32 am »
From lack of pre-loading. The handbrake trick was taught to me when I started driving. Good stuff!
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"You can only scramble an egg so many ways."
~Sarge
Sarge
Hero Member
Posts: 4345
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #5 on:
August 22, 2008, 00:58:19 am »
Quote from: dirk zeyen on August 21, 2008, 22:04:08 pm
hello sarge "A lot of trans failures happen from failure to use the handbrake to "load" the box before blast off IMO"
can you explain this?
dirk zeyen
Hi Dirk... Loading the gear box means when you pull in to stage your car, lift the hand brake (keep the button pressed in) and let the clutch out partially in first gear at the line to pull the car down (the back end will squat a bit "loading" the gears in the trans). Some like to leave "on the brake" to avoid wheel spin when running street tires as well. This will help lessen some of the shock on the trans.
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DKP III
Jim Ratto
Hero Member
Posts: 7121
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #6 on:
August 22, 2008, 01:00:10 am »
sheep has a different explanation of "loading the tranny"
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Rennsurfer
Hero Member
Posts: 7391
D.B.O. Not a club; a state of mind.
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #7 on:
August 22, 2008, 01:01:42 am »
I hate politics... but for 2008, vote for Ratto & Sheep!
Pre-loading trannies... HAHA!!
«
Last Edit: August 22, 2008, 01:15:41 am by DKK_Fred
»
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"You can only scramble an egg so many ways."
~Sarge
Sarge
Hero Member
Posts: 4345
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #8 on:
August 22, 2008, 01:03:36 am »
I'm appalled
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DKP III
Rennsurfer
Hero Member
Posts: 7391
D.B.O. Not a club; a state of mind.
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #9 on:
August 22, 2008, 01:14:56 am »
Really? And here I've been calling you Sarge. Silly me. I suck.
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"You can only scramble an egg so many ways."
~Sarge
deano
Hero Member
Posts: 1851
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #10 on:
August 22, 2008, 14:13:08 pm »
I'll take a stab at this topic. Most fast VWs at the time used the 4.37 ring and pinion, which most of us would agree is the weakest of all the R&Ps. Add that factor to the useage an early mainshaft and you get maybe 15-25 runs before they go boom! And that's with 140hp. So, once people began to use a Super Diff, and the Super Beetle mainshaft came into the picture, I believe a gearbox began to live longer. As the hp increased, so did moving to a stronger 4.12 and finally the 3.88. Crown axles helped, as did sidecovers.
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Anglia Obsolete Guru
'67 Heaven
louisb
Hero Member
Posts: 3274
Runs with Scissors
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #11 on:
August 22, 2008, 15:53:16 pm »
Funny, I figured as tire size and stickiness increased, along with hp, that trannys would break sooner. I do think we are pushing the limits of the stock type 1 trans case. With a tranny with a Berg 5, quaife dif & race prep going for just under 5 grand you would think someone could come out with an aftermarket white paper design for the street that would cure some of the type 1 weaknesses.
--louis
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Louis Brooks
The Beatings Will Continue Until Moral Improves!
John Rayburn
Hero Member
Posts: 2481
Der Kleiner Panzers
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #12 on:
August 22, 2008, 16:51:42 pm »
Quote from: deano on August 22, 2008, 14:13:08 pm
I'll take a stab at this topic. Most fast VWs at the time used the 4.37 ring and pinion, which most of us would agree is the weakest of all the R&Ps. Add that factor to the useage an early mainshaft and you get maybe 15-25 runs before they go boom! And that's with 140hp. So, once people began to use a Super Diff, and the Super Beetle mainshaft came into the picture, I believe a gearbox began to live longer. As the hp increased, so did moving to a stronger 4.12 and finally the 3.88. Crown axles helped, as did sidecovers.
I think you're right Dean. The gussetted case helps hold the ring and pinion together, better, as well.
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dirk zeyen
Sr. Member
Posts: 292
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #13 on:
August 22, 2008, 19:22:07 pm »
thank's sarge
it was my mistranslation what makes me nervous...so i asked you. in my translation you said that preload the gearbox is not a good idea, so i want to know why
i run a stock 1974 swingaxle gearbox with 4.375 R/P and polished the axels and some more little modification. i preload it every time and it works!!! i love the way the "old boys" drive: no msd, no efi... but fast and simple and maybe cheaper
remember greg aronson with 69x88 engine, w1110cam and stock ratio gearbox runs an 14.17, today most people need for the same timeslip bigger engines and close ratio gearboxes, so ask the "old boys" how to go fast!!!
dirk zeyen
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John Rayburn
Hero Member
Posts: 2481
Der Kleiner Panzers
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #14 on:
August 22, 2008, 19:33:38 pm »
Sarge is saying you MUST pre-load.
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louisb
Hero Member
Posts: 3274
Runs with Scissors
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #15 on:
August 22, 2008, 20:12:34 pm »
Quote from: John Rayburn on August 22, 2008, 19:33:38 pm
Sarge is saying you MUST pre-lube.
There, I fixed it for you.
--louis
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Louis Brooks
The Beatings Will Continue Until Moral Improves!
John Rayburn
Hero Member
Posts: 2481
Der Kleiner Panzers
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #16 on:
August 22, 2008, 20:51:17 pm »
SSSAAAARRGGEEE!!!!!
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dirk zeyen
Sr. Member
Posts: 292
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #17 on:
August 22, 2008, 21:47:56 pm »
hello john,
after reading it again i know it!!!!
to many beer, fast reading and one more beer and see what happend
and yes i will preload again!!!
dirk zeyen
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dirk zeyen
Sr. Member
Posts: 292
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #18 on:
August 22, 2008, 22:25:02 pm »
preload it
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Sarge
Hero Member
Posts: 4345
Re: Sarge, when did transaxles start living?
«
Reply #19 on:
August 23, 2008, 02:07:25 am »
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DKP III
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