which heads are better

[Project_X]

Has anyone used these?Which would be best for a 1600cc or 1760cc?
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1241

http://www.aircooled.net/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=EHD0012&cartid=0922200888046342
with this one, IM talking about the Stocker plus Level 3, stock bore, with a venturi cut valve job, with fully welded and ported intakes. Not sure Id need to CC it to spec?

http://www.drdracingheads.com/heads/heads_L3.php

I guess there about the same in specs not sure.

[louisb]

I think DRD is a supplier to aircooled.net so those two should be the same.

--louis

[Diederick/DVK]

biggest difference is the 040 casting versus the 044 i think...

[Bewitched666]

What are the specs for your engine Project_X and for what purpose are you gonna use it.

Think all heads will work but all depends on your needs.

[Project_X]

Well the specs I'm thinking of going with are:

Forged 85.5's
Forged c/w 69mm crank
5.5" connecting rods
Engle FK10 cam
Forged cam gear
10:1 Compression
Dual 40 or 44IDF's
1 5/8" merged header w/ stinger
Pertronix ignition kit

I was told the FK10 is to much cam, and the W110 with 1.25:1 rockers would be better along with a 1.5" merged header.

On the current motor though, I have thought of buying the 1.4:1 rockers with shortened pushrods, better than stock heads, merged header, an dual 40idf's, but Id need to put a rev limiter on it since I donno if it has a c/w or non c/w crank.
What you think?

[Bewitched666]

FK-10 cam is alot and wont benefit proparly from those heads i guess.

I would go with the FK-8 cam,1.4 rockers and the cd heads.
Stock lenght rods,1.5 merged header and dual 44's

[Jim Ratto]

Well the specs I'm thinking of going with are:

Forged 85.5's
Forged c/w 69mm crank
5.5" connecting rods
Engle FK10 cam
Forged cam gear
10:1 Compression
Dual 40 or 44IDF's
1 5/8" merged header w/ stinger
Pertronix ignition kit

I was told the FK10 is to much cam, and the W110 with 1.25:1 rockers would be better along with a 1.5" merged header.

On the current motor though, I have thought of buying the 1.4:1 rockers with shortened pushrods, better than stock heads, merged header, an dual 40idf's, but Id need to put a rev limiter on it since I donno if it has a c/w or non c/w crank.
What you think?

FK10 is too much cam for 1584cc, in my opinion.
Sounds like you want to build a very hot "1600"    ?
Look at Web Cam # 110...  with 1.25 rockers.  I think you'll get .530" lift and 256 degrees @ .050"
The Engle K8 would be comparable in a 1.4 cam
you know this is going to be a crabby street motor?
Why so highly tuned???


for reference's sake... I put an FK10 in a 1914 with big welded heads, 10.0:1 and 48IDAs, and trust me, I drove it around the block... it was awful under 4500. I cannot imagine how overcammed a 1600 would be.

[Torben Alstrup]

Well the specs I'm thinking of going with are:

Forged 85.5's
Forged c/w 69mm crank
5.5" connecting rods
Engle FK10 cam
Forged cam gear
10:1 Compression
Dual 40 or 44IDF's
1 5/8" merged header w/ stinger
Pertronix ignition kit

I was told the FK10 is to much cam, and the W110 with 1.25:1 rockers would be better along with a 1.5" merged header.

On the current motor though, I have thought of buying the 1.4:1 rockers with shortened pushrods, better than stock heads, merged header, an dual 40idf's, but Id need to put a rev limiter on it since I donno if it has a c/w or non c/w crank.
What you think?

Too long rods. Stay with stock length. or even better the new 5 ,325" H beam from CB.
Scat C45 with 1,3 rockers or Web 109/110 camshaft.
For an all round vehicle DRD L3 CNC or a set of 041 or 043 handported cylinder heads for the engine. 40/35 mm valves.
T

[Project_X]

Jim what do you mean by a crabby motor? bad gas mileage? 

[Neil Davies]

Jim what do you mean by a crabby motor? bad gas mileage? 

No, more like it'll be so bad tempered you'll hate driving it. Bring the revs up to 4000 just to pull away is not fun - accelerator like a switch, on or off - stalling everywhere, carbs choking plugs, just a horrible driving experience. Yes, from a standing start in a race it'll scream, but for every day? Forget it.

[alex d]

I'd give a look at the webcam 218 too, with stock valved ported heads you'd have good drivability and healthy power

[Project_X]

wouldnt the cb heads or acn heads be better than stock valved ported heads?Is there a cam that is available i could use with those heads in the first post of this thread?That would let it take off decently?I was told about the not taking off until 4krpms but I dont really understand why?Theres cars out there with alot more hp than torque and they takeoff ok.Example...a Honda Civic, they make the most torque around 3-400rpm and the most hp at high rpms.Is that at all possible to do with a vw motor and be reliable for 80k?Its a daily but who knows what I'll do in the future.

[Project_X]

I also found this
http://www.rockyjennings.com/mickys_race_car.htm

Its a 1600cc similar to what Im wanting, someone explain to me how it dont takeoff well but can pull a 14 in the 1/4 mile, yes I know its a race car but still...

[Diederick/DVK]

how you noticed the title?
micky's race car 

[ESH]

... Its a 1600cc similar to what Im wanting, someone explain to me how it dont takeoff well but can pull a 14 in the 1/4 mile ...

To get it moving would probably require sitting on the line at maybe 8000rpm, as the clutch is released the revs drop to the band where the motor makes peak power. 1st to 2nd therefore is all but instantaneous. If you drive like this on the road your motor will probably blow up pretty quickly, you'll be deaf and your shift shoulder will probably ache a bit. For every gain there's a trade off and with a quick small motor generally speaking driveability is what you lose. Or something like that...

The Honda engine is probably a bit too different to make any kind of useful comparisons to, it has stuff going on that the Flat 4 doesn't.

 

[Jim Ratto]

wouldnt the cb heads or acn heads be better than stock valved ported heads?Is there a cam that is available i could use with those heads in the first post of this thread?That would let it take off decently?I was told about the not taking off until 4krpms but I dont really understand why?Theres cars out there with alot more hp than torque and they takeoff ok.Example...a Honda Civic, they make the most torque around 3-400rpm and the most hp at high rpms.Is that at all possible to do with a vw motor and be reliable for 80k?Its a daily but who knows what I'll do in the future.

A Honda Civic has 5 speed, and is a SOHC or DOHC engine... depending on model. And it has a 16V head.

If you want to go fast, make a bigger motor.

Or if you want to go faster with 1600cc.... tame it down a little, you can go pretty fast with one. Just take it down a notch or two.

[Bewitched666]

I agree

[Zach Gomulka]

I know most people have heard this a thousand times...

I had a 1600 with an engle 110, 1.25's, AJ 40x35.5 heads, 8.5:1, 44idf's, 1 1/2" merged. It went 14.8's @ 88mph in my '67 and it was my daily driver, but it was very light (race weight was 1630, with me!) and had a 1.48, 1.04 'box. It worked well in that car, but it was loud, screamed on the freeway, and there is no way I would want to daily drive that thing today- but I'm older now! After a 2 hour drive you wanted to blow your brains out. We put the motor in to AssHull's full weight '67 with stock gears, swapped to 40idf's with update kits on tall manifolds (for more torque). It did pretty good, but it was still fairly "soft" before 3,000rpm. It still was a good motor in that car, got great mileage, was fun to drive, and was pretty cheap to build (except for the heads).
I guess what I'm trying to say here is, an FK10 is stupid big. I consider the 110x1.25 combo to be on the edge for a 1600cc street car, I can't imagine an FK10 in the same size motor.

[Diederick/DVK]

not again zach 
 

but yeah, there are a few people on here to build fast and reliable 1600s. i think it's more important to have a look at what made their combination work then going crazy by building a drag engine for the street. plus you'll probably have to donate a kidney to afford the fuel a drag engine would consume on the road...

[drgouk]

wouldnt the cb heads or acn heads be better than stock valved ported heads?Is there a cam that is available i could use with those heads in the first post of this thread?That would let it take off decently?I was told about the not taking off until 4krpms but I dont really understand why?Theres cars out there with alot more hp than torque and they takeoff ok.Example...a Honda Civic, they make the most torque around 3-400rpm and the most hp at high rpms.Is that at all possible to do with a vw motor and be reliable for 80k?Its a daily but who knows what I'll do in the future.

A Honda Civic has 5 speed, and is a SOHC or DOHC engine... depending on model. And it has a 16V head.

If you want to go fast, make a bigger motor.

Or if you want to go faster with 1600cc.... tame it down a little, you can go pretty fast with one. Just take it down a notch or two.

It will probably have variable valve lift and cam timing to pick up the bottom end also. Yes you can make a 1600 quick, but why when you can have a more reliable bigger end in a lower state of tune.

[Zach Gomulka]

wouldnt the cb heads or acn heads be better than stock valved ported heads?Is there a cam that is available i could use with those heads in the first post of this thread?That would let it take off decently?I was told about the not taking off until 4krpms but I dont really understand why?Theres cars out there with alot more hp than torque and they takeoff ok.Example...a Honda Civic, they make the most torque around 3-400rpm and the most hp at high rpms.Is that at all possible to do with a vw motor and be reliable for 80k?Its a daily but who knows what I'll do in the future.

A Honda Civic has 5 speed, and is a SOHC or DOHC engine... depending on model. And it has a 16V head.

If you want to go fast, make a bigger motor.

Or if you want to go faster with 1600cc.... tame it down a little, you can go pretty fast with one. Just take it down a notch or two.

It will probably have variable valve lift and cam timing to pick up the bottom end also. Yes you can make a 1600 quick, but why when you can have a more reliable bigger end in a lower state of tune.

Which is precisely why we are rebuilding that motor into a 1915!

[Jim Ratto]

Project X i should probably tell you about my friend's 88 x 69 daily driver street motor.
I helped him build it in 1998-99 and I drove it several times, and I have a favorable impression from that car, which was a stock '65 with 5.5" chrome wheels and Dunlop 60 series radials, which probably shortened the final drive a tad. I remember him running a 4.12 and .89 4th. In any case, the engine was impressively responsive at all rpms and loads, though it was obvious it wanted to run in the 4000-6500 range. It pulled much harder, however down low than a stock-cammed dual carb 1600 (to me dual 40IDF's on a stock 1600 has to be one of the softest engine combos I think I have EVER driven....it is horrible). At Sacramento raceway, the car on radials and full weight, ran a best of 14.71 at low 90mph's... again, this was a daily driver, and in my opinion was perfectly acceptable as a street motor.
Here's the setup....
new VW mag case
69mm Rimco CW crank
Rimco VW rods
Mahle 88mm with ERCO lightweight wrist pins
6lb aluminum Crown flywheel
35 x 32 dual port VW heads ported @ Heads Up Perf, semi hemi'd chambers, s/s valves, dual springs, ti retainers
Web Cam # 110 with Scat 1.25 rockers, advanced 4 degrees
8.0:1
Dual 40mm IDF Webers with 32mm venturi
tall CB manifolds (tall like Skat Trak)
1-5/8" Phoenix merged with A1 muffler
Bosch 010 with points and Bosch red coil

Again, I drove this car a bunch, and had I not know better, I would have suspected it was a 1900cc. It ran that strong. It will always be one of the motors that really impressed me for how balanced its power delivery was. My friend's 1914 with K8 and 48IDAs was "cammier" than this 1679 was. For stock valve diameter... this motor screamed. And was by all means, streetable.

[Diederick/DVK]

that's S.O.D.A.'s engine, right?
you posted good stories about it some time ago as well. sounds cool!

[Jim Ratto]

yeah it was Bryan Wenzel's (SODA)
later he stroked it with 74mm and borrowed Bates' 48IDAs and it was an even smoother/faster motor. Oh it had 86B with 1.4's then too.

[Bewitched666]

Project_X build the 1600 hot street engine
Cb cnc heads 40x35.5
FK8 or W120 cam
Either the 1.4 rockers or 1.25
straigh cuts
40 dells or web
1.1/2 inch header
full flow
msd al 6 ignition and some more hipo goodies
slap a good gearbox and blast down the 1/4 strip

[Project_X]

Project_X build the 1600 hot street engine
Cb cnc heads 40x35.5
FK8 or W120 cam
Either the 1.4 rockers or 1.25
straigh cuts
40 dells or web
1.1/2 inch header
full flow
msd al 6 ignition and some more hipo goodies
slap a good gearbox and blast down the 1/4 strip

sounds good for what I want
I found a different cam on CBperformances site, an was wondering if these would be a better option since you guys say the FK* and FK10 would make it a pig.

They work only with the stock rockers it seems though, or work best.

#           Adv. Duration         Dur. @.050      lift @ cam     Lift w/ 1.1: rockers
2242          298 degree           248 degree        .389"                .428"
2245          318 degree           270 degree        .393"                 .432"
2248          318 degree           276 degree        .401"                 .441"

Heads not sure what Id use, any opinions for the 85.5 bore?
Also these are called the mini stock cam, good for high reving motors and flat top track cars (whatever that is)

[Bewitched666]

From the cams listed below i would pick the 2242 cam for your engine.

Flattop track cars,arent those the midget race cars with that silly looking wing on the roof?