midget engines

[nicolas]

i read the topic about some people running midget engines back in the day. what is the difference between a 'callook' engine and a midget engine?

seems like a nice thing that was done back in the day, but not heard off these days it seems

[Bewitched666]

Midget engines are for small peops

[Jim Ratto]

i read the topic about some people running midget engines back in the day. what is the difference between a 'callook' engine and a midget engine?

seems like a nice thing that was done back in the day, but not heard off these days it seems

'Midget engines' were true competition motors, not super tuned street motors (like 'cal look'), designed to run in midget series on oval tracks, car usually far from going "straight", and typically living 90% of their time @ 7000+rpm....  dry sump, aftermarket cases and heads (Scat, Autocraft, ARPM were all big in the day), mechanical injection or 48IDAs, mags... all de-rigeur for the sport. I think a lot of the technology we now "take for granted" today are thanks not only to the gassers and modified compact drag cars, but also the midget guys of the 1970's and 1980's. I never really got into the midget scene, but my ex-boss was deep into it, as was RACEHEAD here on Lounge, and our friends James Collins and his late, great father, Mike. While I was working at BH, quite a few "midget" motors were pulled from their original cars, and stuffed into streetcars, drag cars and sand rails. Lots of high-dollar exotic stuff, about 10 years ago, James was building up a 94x88 Autocraft case, Carillos, 4-stage dry-sump pump, old Autocraft Stage 4 or 5 hybrid heads.
Mike had a Cesco 4 cylinder motor on his stand for the longest time. I think Jerry had a Pontiac-based 4 cyl too... like I said, never got into the deal much. Some guys ran Offy's too? Maybe the big leauger guys....
My old friend Big Frank ran a little Neuman Draeger at some of the local (to the Bay Area) tracks...Antioch, Calistoga, Merced, Santa Maria.... he ran a 2276 turbo motor with side-draft 48DCOE, German "filled" case (like most of the serious stuff that came out of BH), Scat 912-journal crank (profiled by Jim Wellington @ Rennsport, the 4-cam Carrera guy), Carillos, Bugpack heads, and other stuff. Sheep and I used to go with him occasionally and help him in the pits. Quite the scene...  at some of those tracks it was more fun watching the fans over the cars.
I'm sure other guys here can give you a better rundown of what midget racing was all about.... like Dave Greiner, Deano or RACEHEAD
here's some pics I found on web of VW powered stuff....

[Tony M]

Well put Jim - These engines came about from the high cost of running an Offy - But they found that the lower center of gravity with the air cooled engine were the key to making the cars work better - plus the torque of a big VW was also a key factor in comming out of the corner's - Thus Auto Craft motors were born - A true all out race engine capable of running over 7000 rpms and making awsom power. But the end came when they got like the Offy - way too much money to build. The Midget we ran out of Buggy House did not have a VW in it, We ran a Pontiac block with a Brodax V8 head - made over 325HP and lived all year long. So many of the VW motors ended up in street cars.  Truly a motor that would take all the street abuse given to it and live. Ascot was the place to race in So-Cal. Thanksgiving night was the biggest Midget race of the year, over 150 car tried to qualify for a 30 car main event, and it was a 100 lape race.

[Jim Ratto]

I remember seeing pictures of the Pontiac motor. Was that an "Iron Duke" based block?
Mike's Cesco motor was a work of art. I remember drooling over the injector stacks and the mag.
I think Mike had barrel-valve throttles on the Cesco?

Now, Tony, what were the little 1600 dual ports with the GMC blowers and Hilborn throttles used in? Did they ever go around the oval?

[Tony M]

Yes,Those engines were built for the old Super Sedans, oval track cars in the dirt. Dont let the size fool you, 2 engine were built at the same time, 1 for Mike C, and the other for Jerry. They had a Magnuson blower, with a 3in Hilborne Injection running on Methanol, Dry sumped, Pauter crank, chevy rods, wedge mated flywheel. Heads were stock valves with good springs, ect.. Collins hand made all the engine tin for both. Can't remember the HP #'s but over 150hp i beleve.

[deano]

In the late '70s, and full-house 2332cc Auto Craft midget engine ran $9300. Made about 200hp on methanol. With no flywheel, these engines would rev to the moon!

[Tony M]

In the late '70s, and full-house 2332cc Auto Craft midget engine ran $9300. Made about 200hp on methanol. With no flywheel, these engines would rev to the moon!

 And they had the most awsom sound to them -

[Jim Ratto]

In the late '70s, and full-house 2332cc Auto Craft midget engine ran $9300. Made about 200hp on methanol. With no flywheel, these engines would rev to the moon!

 And they had the most awsom sound to them -

So did the blower motor. Jerry fired it up at the last BH "in house" show I put on. The methanol fumes cleared the parking lot real fast.

[Jim Ratto]

Yes,Those engines were built for the old Super Sedans, oval track cars in the dirt. Dont let the size fool you, 2 engine were built at the same time, 1 for Mike C, and the other for Jerry. They had a Magnuson blower, with a 3in Hilborne Injection running on Methanol, Dry sumped, Pauter crank, chevy rods, wedge mated flywheel. Heads were stock valves with good springs, ect.. Collins hand made all the engine tin for both. Can't remember the HP #'s but over 150hp i beleve.

So the Super Sedans, they were like the unlimited class of the Mini Stockers? I think Preisendorf ran a mini stocker @ Fremont, with his 1835 and his "future plans" destroker motor.
Bob "MOVO" was behind the blower motors too? Or he just ended up with one?
I may have a picture of Jerry's ratholed away in one of my shoeboxes...

[axam48ida]

Well put Jim - These engines came about from the high cost of running an Offy - But they found that the lower center of gravity with the air cooled engine were the key to making the cars work better - plus the torque of a big VW was also a key factor in comming out of the corner's - Thus Auto Craft motors were born - A true all out race engine capable of running over 7000 rpms and making awsom power. But the end came when they got like the Offy - way too much money to build. The Midget we ran out of Buggy House did not have a VW in it, We ran a Pontiac block with a Brodax V8 head - made over 325HP and lived all year long. So many of the VW motors ended up in street cars.  Truly a motor that would take all the street abuse given to it and live. Ascot was the place to race in So-Cal. Thanksgiving night was the biggest Midget race of the year, over 150 car tried to qualify for a 30 car main event, and it was a 100 lape race.

Yeh, I remember those days well Tony!  I use to razzle Jerry when a vw won over the Ponitac owned and sponsored by a vw based shop
besides the 3/8s at baylands, anitoch, petaluma, lakeport, chico, madera, etc....and that little bullring in stockton-that was fun vw track...my little
old KRE 2180 buzzed 8,500 all night long....fun days .....and yes what a feeling to be at Ascot hot lapping with the best in the country! I never made it pass the c, but I was still a thrill on the 1/2 mile.
Merry Christmas!!!!!