The 4" Bore Thread

[smallblockcoupe]

Thanks for all of the replies!

Karl h- could you explain this piston pin problem? Is it just that the pins are different sizes? If that's the case couldn't they be bushed?

Again, sorry for allot the questions am I trying to learn and am very interested in this 4" bore and hipo vw motors in general. While I don't have the machines or the skills alot of my customers do and a few used to have vws and a few more have expressed and interest in helping me with different projects.

Thanks,
Mike.

[ugly duckling]

i herar ya there tom. i drive 40 horses everyday im happy. if i had some power i would only turn into MR WEELER THE MAD MAN i get lots of tickects i couldent afford. one of these days it will happen again maybe. i would rather see other people have a good time . UD .   

[Fiatdude]

Fiatdude- I never thought about altering the pin height to compensate for a different length rod. Very interesting. What do you think about stock GM rods for a street motor? My thinking is that if they will handle the power and torque of a v8 say 400 or so they should be goodfor the beetle. Does this make sense? Am I crazy? Sorry for all of the questions about this, I work at an autoparts store an was staring at engine parts catalogs all night thinking of a way to make this more affordable. 

Thanks,
Mike.

A friend of mine just showed me a set of pistons where the wrist pin is set inside the oil ring -- talking about going to great lengths to get a long rod in the motor

[smallblockcoupe]

I believe that was common practice for the 347 ford motors. When people first started stroking the 302 to 347 this was "normal' as was heavy oil consumption. A few companies have since fixed this ...

[karl h]

a V8 piston pin is .927 (23.5mm), even bigger than a porsche pin that is 23mm. what i found is that honing the rod bushing for 23, let alone 23.5mm isnt possible, its too thin. so you are stuck with having it rebushed. its just not a matter of boring out the little end and sticking a bushing in, you have to have a machine that can hone the litlle end parallel to the big end. rimco wont do it, FAT might. locally (here in vienna) i was quoted 80€ per rod
so it seems less trouble to go searching for a piston with a 22mm pin thats also lighter in the firstplace and not having to modify the rods alltogether

[smallblockcoupe]

Karl h- now this is an area that I do not know much about but, coulnt you bush the piston? Would that make it easier then trying to hone the rods? I really have no clue if that's possible just an idea...

[karl h]

i dont know if you can bush a piston, after all its aluminum, the bronze bushing would spread it, i think
furthermore youd have to deal with the clips and the oiling hole that most V8 pistons have
for me the adventages of using a piston that has a 22mm pin just outweights the price it costs

[181]

So what´s the scoop on these heads from DRD?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=828811

I think they are a pretty new porduct aren´t they?

[TexasTom]

Love to see the chambers ... but, also look as though they could have the same problem as others which is hard to keep cool (minimal fins with long exhaust port).
Then again, what do I know? Need to see more ...

[58vw]

So what´s the scoop on these heads from DRD?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=828811

I think they are a pretty new porduct aren´t they?

dont know....someone needs to buy a set and try em out 

[GeirH]

I have ordered a 4" set.

[58vw]

I have ordered a 4" set

good luck with that.....dont forget to report back with any updates...like video of the beast u put them on

[ugly duckling]

yea let see some more pictures of darrens new heads. come on darren dont be shy let see whats ya got. just currios about those hp figgers is that somthing thats already been fully tested and on a running engine? just asking. TALK TO US. are your guide centers relocated for the 4in version? a little show and tell is always nice . UD .

[Marty]

Fiatdude- I never thought about altering the pin height to compensate for a different length rod. Very interesting. What do you think about stock GM rods for a street motor? My thinking is that if they will handle the power and torque of a v8 say 400 or so they should be goodfor the beetle. Does this make sense? Am I crazy? Sorry for all of the questions about this, I work at an autoparts store an was staring at engine parts catalogs all night thinking of a way to make this more affordable. 

Thanks,
Mike.

A friend of mine just showed me a set of pistons where the wrist pin is set inside the oil ring -- talking about going to great lengths to get a long rod in the motor

Its done all of the time (and not just so a long rod can be fit). I think the piston skirts take less beating also due to the lower compression height. The piston is also smaller and lighter with no sacrifice of strength.
Here is a picture of one of the set I just had made for a 78 x 96.7 turbo motor.

[181]

so what would be the "starter class" for the 4inch bore? I´m tempted to buld something BIG in case my newly built 2276 will run without problems.

My first thoughts are:

2789cc
Autolinea Alu case, modified for 4 inch spacing
AA cylinders
86 DPR crank, 411 all mains, chevy rod journal
5.6 H-beam rods
Web 86C cam, CB lifters, Pauter rockers
DRD heads bored for 4 inch bore, 44X38mm valves

51 IDAs

piston ideas?
cooling ideas?

[58vw]

so what would be the "starter class" for the 4inch bore? I´m tempted to buld something BIG in case my newly built 2276 will run without problems.

My first thoughts are:

2789cc
Autolinea Alu case, modified for 4 inch spacing
AA cylinders
86 DPR crank, 411 all mains, chevy rod journal
5.6 H-beam rods
Web 86C cam, CB lifters, Pauter rockers
DRD heads bored for 4 inch bore, 44X38mm valves

51 IDAs

piston ideas?
cooling ideas?

venolia or j&e pistons, cooling 36hp fan shroud, i have one 48 pass and one 72 pass cooler (on my car) the 72 has thermostat fan,... and the valves to small, at least 48mm intake and a pair of angleflow heads designed for a 4inbore......

[Big Power]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

[Rocket Ron]

 

[richie]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

Pat,
so you are going to offer them in 4inch bore version? with a decent ex valve size

cheers richie,uk

[Big Power]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

Pat,
so you are going to offer them in 4inch bore version? with a decent ex valve size

cheers richie,uk

I could do a 50x40 in the 4" casting. On the next run of heads I am going to add more material around the outside of the intake ports for larger intake valves. Reason being is because I want the correct size port to go with the bigger throat. 

[drgouk]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

Pat,
so you are going to offer them in 4inch bore version? with a decent ex valve size

cheers richie,uk

I could do a 50x40 in the 4" casting. On the next run of heads I am going to add more material around the outside of the intake ports for larger intake valves. Reason being is because I want the correct size port to go with the bigger throat. 

Do you think this head could be made streetable?

[Big Power]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

Pat,
so you are going to offer them in 4inch bore version? with a decent ex valve size

cheers richie,uk

I could do a 50x40 in the 4" casting. On the next run of heads I am going to add more material around the outside of the intake ports for larger intake valves. Reason being is because I want the correct size port to go with the bigger throat. 

Do you think this head could be made streetable?

If you were to install squirters on the valves to help cool the head, yes. Using the head as it is I would have to say no.

[Fiatdude]

Heart is getting pieced together 

[ugly duckling]

right on harold looking good. go show us what 27yr old thecnoligy can do today (KICK ASS) it was way ahead of its time and in some ways still is.why is because its still has the main oem lines of the original littel brother. keep up the good work . UD .   

[max2919]

Since other companies heads are being posted on this thread, I thought it would be O.K to share our new head, also available in a 4" bore. 308cfm out of the box in a 94mm bore, 330cfm in a 96mm bore. Valve size is 50 x 38, CNC ported. I haven't flowed one yet in a 4" bore yet but plan to in a few weeks.

[ugly duckling]

i wonder an im sure many others around this globe would like to know if there is TRUE DOCUMANTION on the( NEW HEADS) that susposodedly flow these susposide ##s. when i was flowing the STREET/DRAG angel flows i made it realy clear and went out of my way to show the ACTUAL FLOW SHEET AND THE FLOW BENCH WITH ##s.  to show people what they are capebel of with no welding on the HEAD  it self. maybe i should do a VIDIO on the flow bench then there will be no doupting and the world can see also that we have nothing to (HIDE).maybe OTHERS would do the same if they have nothing to (HIDE) .because when it all comes down to it the truth is always best when it comes to selling a product. UD .   

[Big Power]

i wonder an im sure many others around this globe would like to know if there is TRUE DOCUMANTION on the( NEW HEADS) that susposodedly flow these susposide ##s. when i was flowing the STREET/DRAG angel flows i made it realy clear and went out of my way to show the ACTUAL FLOW SHEET AND THE FLOW BENCH WITH ##s.  to show people what they are capebel of with no welding on the HEAD  it self. maybe i should do a VIDIO on the flow bench then there will be no doupting and the world can see also that we have nothing to (HIDE).maybe OTHERS would do the same if they have nothing to (HIDE) .because when it all comes down to it the truth is always best when it comes to selling a product. UD .   

Are you calling me a liar? Within the next week, I will do a video of the head being flowed. You see Jeff, I have this nifty little computer made by Superflow called a FlowCom. I'm sure you have seen them. FlowComs don't lie. In fact, I will do 2 videos, one showing me doing a leakage check and the 2nd doing the flowing of the head. Maybe I should put in a giant intake valve and bore the head to 103mm. Isn't that what you had to do to get your heads to flow? For me, I wouldn't want any documentation on it, more like all I would want to do is forget about it

[ugly duckling]

was there any where in my sentence the word liar. you did tell the truth that the head without oil sqirters would not be streetible there you did right . but you know that any individual can put ##s up on the internet and magizen and say they are the best thing since slice bread. but when the customer gets the product and decides he,s going to flow test the heads and they arent what they supposedly says WELL. buy the way when you build a BIG BORE ENGINE this is the reason for doing it to put BIG VALVES in to take atvantage of this. why would i put a dinkey littel 50mm valve in head that has so much more in it. you dont see big block mopars runnig 50 mm you dont see big block chev running 50mm. i look forward in watching your vidios that will be a good thing make it real now.nice talkn with ya pat  .  . UD .   

[Big Power]

was there any where in my sentence the word liar. you did tell the truth that the head without oil sqirters would not be streetible there you did right . but you know that any individual can put ##s up on the internet and magizen and say they are the best thing since slice bread. but when the customer gets the product and decides he,s going to flow test the heads and they arent what they supposedly says WELL. buy the way when you build a BIG BORE ENGINE this is the reason for doing it to put BIG VALVES in to take atvantage of this. why would i put a dinkey littel 50mm valve in head that has so much more in it. you dont see big block mopars runnig 50 mm you dont see big block chev running 50mm. i look forward in watching your vidios that will be a good thing make it real now.nice talkn with ya pat  .  . UD .   

Some people put huge valves in heads when they can't get them to flow like other people can?  I'm sure you are aware that a port with a 50mm valve that flows what a 52 or 53mm valve flows is a more efficient port. What YOU should be scared of is when I do install larger valves in the head with a 4" bore. While I am doing the video's, would you like me to do a video on the air speed of this head? I would be interesting to see what kind of air speed those giant fifty something mm valves of yours have.

[Big Power]

Hey Jeff, I am working on a set of 94mm bore heads for a customer. I plan on using this head for the video you want. Heads are off the shelf with 40cc combustion chambers. I will make a point of letting you see the CNC lines in the port. I will flow the head with one of Rocky Jennings manifolds modified to work with our ports, our's are still a few weeks out.  Would you like the video in stereo Plan on seeing it later tomorrow evening. BTW, sometimes what you ask for can come back and bite you in the a$$.