The Cal-look Lounge

I want to run a pair of firestone wide oval tires at the back off my 67 bug with short axels, first question is i can get a pair in the size F60x15 but i don't knowe wich size it is compared to the mm size, will these fit my bug, and can i run them on 6" rims
wha can help me out on this one... ???

f60-15 are about 215mm wide i.e. 215/60-15

I used to have the F70-15 on my car, they're a little bit taller than 205/70-15.

(http://www.luftkraft.ch/emiliemanuel/18.jpg)

so if i understand correctly is the F60 a wider tire then the F70 ? so i will probably need a F70x16..

yes.

F70-15 http://store.coker.com/product.php?productid=16571&cat=0&page=1

F60-15 http://store.coker.com/product.php?productid=16574&cat=0&page=1

Actually They should not be wider. F is a width designation and 60 or 70 is an aspect ratio just like a metric sized tire. Any width difference would be due to manufacturing differences.

i have looked at the above links and the F70 will go on rims from 6-8 and the F60 on a 7and8 and there is a size differnece in them, so i will try to get a pair of the F70 x 15.
will be a search over here in the netherlands but i will get them.. ;D i really like the looks of them, and hopefully they are sticky enough also

I use F70-15 on 5.5 sprints and look perfect on my 67 with short axels ;D ;D ;D ;D

(http://td.zona13.com/pics4web/SprintsAndTyres.jpg)

That is a nice looking tire. Wonder what kind of tread life you would get out of them on the street.  :D

--louis

No problem with tread life, they are ordinary street tires. 1970 style bias ply street tires that is..

Rick: I agree with your explanation that the F is a width designation, but only in theory.. F-60 is considerably wider (and a little lower) than F-70 in all these musclecar tires like Firestone Wide Oval, Goodyear Polyglas, M/T Indy Profile aso.

And those Sprints with Wide O's.. Love 'em!!

BTW, I run F-70's on a 5" rim. Not saying that I recomend it, but they stay on..

Never mind, for some reason I thought those were cheater slicks.

--louis

Yesterday I made the first ride with my car and the WO...

when I took 90 Km/h the back of the car start shaking like on the ICE!!!!!
a big fright.. and then with some calm I slow down and take the side out of the motorway......
I know that they have to get the right shape around the rim but was a very bad moment...
after some other Km I retry to reach the 90 and they seems to enhance...

anyone had the same experience???

 ???

hell yeah! going sideways, some scaring motorway experiences, no handling on the wet, no traction etc. but hey, they look cool!

 :D :o

i like the looks of it yeah, but when the traction and handeling in the wet is that bad, i will really reconsider....there will be an engine in the car with around 200HP so yes i want some traction....
any other good alternative's ??
with good looks and traction.....

firestone f560  in 205-70-15...will these work , any experiance someone ???

http://www.bfgoodrichtires.com/specs/radial-t-a/12.html

I'm thinking these as an alternative....

what do you guys think?

Sorry to take this topic out, but I really like the looks of theese tyres (wide ovals), but I have serious doubts about handling and traction.
Could anybody, who used them tell honestly how does it feel to have them on?
How does a bug behave on street and strip with them?
I mean: They look super cool, but are they really worth anything comparing to the more modern ones like contemporary Good Years, or Pirellis?

I can only speak for the M/T Indy Profile F70-15 wich is also a classic musclecar tire.
Looks awesome IMO, but may very well be the worst tire I have ever driven in wet conditions. Absolutely lethal!

I´m running F70-15 wide ovals on my ovalwindow and don´t have the best experiences as well. A week ago I took the car for a spin because I wanted to check the jetting with a LM-1. That meant I had to rev it up to see if everything is okay. So I revved it to 7760rpm in second gear and shifted into third on a very flat and dry street when suddenly the rear wheels lost grip and the car went sideways. For that reason I will never ever do that on a country road again!;-)
As lonmg as you are cruising everything is fine but you must be careful in turns. I´ve never driven those tires in the rain but I guess it´s dangerous!
Bye,

Tobi

The do look a cool tire, but not sure that you will look so cool in a ditch upside down with your car trashed.
People overlook tires too often, they are probably the single most important device on your car, don't sacrafice your life for looks! If you have a HiPo strret car you need to invest in some good rubber and leave these tires in the 50s!

Sorry to bring this post back from the dead!!
I am looking at the wide ovals for my 356 rims, after reading this I might have to reconsider!
Are there any period looking tyres that are actually good,i.e are useable in the wet or above 60mph
Thanks

A couple of years ago I swapped the MT´s mentioned above for some 185-15 Vredestein Sprint Classics. It was like buying a new car!

Sounds perfect to me  ;) FUN!  ;D

it is fun sometimes but others is terrifying...
My worst experience was on the motorway with heavy traffic...
I was doing ~100 Km/h in the low speed lane, and as soon as I encountered some lorries groove,
the car started moving along side towards the next lane,
it seemed possessed and was really difficult to keep it straight... not nice!

Thanks for bringing back this thread, I had a good giggle!  :D

It's not technology, or computer controls, or being smarter that makes cars and bikes so much faster now than in the past...........it's the tyres.  ;)

I remember being on a wet highway in a 1963 having a road train go past. The little Beetle still had the stock 5.60-15s on it, and it promptly started to pendulum around while I was doing about 100kph.  :o
Of course the bloody wipers didn't work either, so I had no way of knowing which way was up.  ;D

With a little tweaking of the suspension you can use these tires and still have a car that goes straight on the highway.
Bias tires, and specially these "square" late 60's-early 70's tires, are less forgiving than radials and you need to have both the front and rear suspension adjusted correctly.
The first time I had my oval out on the highway with a set of F70-15 Mickey Thompson Indy Profiles I almost needed to change my pants. It was ALL over the place and suddenly decided to change lanes by itself. So I had to find out what to do.

First of all, you need to have a little toe-in on the rear. On the early cars this can't be adjusted so you have to either use later spring plates or file the holes in the original ones to get the adjustment needed. All the way forward works fine and gives a lot more straight line stability. This was the major improvement.
Second you also need to have the front suspension in good shape and with the correct toe-in.
There is a rule saying that you should never mix radials and bias tires on the same car, and it has something to it.. I usually run bias 5.60-15's on the front on my oval but on other cars (like the green '66 in the pics) I use radials up front without any problems as long as the suspension is right.
After having the adjustments set up I really have no handling problems. And I don't mean getting to and from meetings without ending in the ditch, I usually drive about 12-13.000kms each summer on all kinds of roads without ever thinking about the tires being an issue.

As for handling. these tires (Goodyear Polyglas, Firestone Wide Ovals etc) were the state of the art tires in 1970. Tire technology has come a long way since then, but they were original equipment on 400+ horsepower musclecars that were not "lethal" to drive. The grip in the wet is not the best but the sidewalls are pretty stiff and they handle ok in turns. After having tried a lot of setups, widths and so on I would try to avoid using tubes in them. They are not supposed to have them and in my experience become more unpredictable. Square tires don't like round tubes.. They are also wider than they are high, the tubes are not.

Widths are also discussed earlier in the thread. In Theory the F designates the width, but that really isn't the case. A F-70 tire is about the same as a 215/70. I now use F60's and they equal a 245/60 radial tire.
There was also someone asking if a F-60 can be used. Yes it can but you need the offset on your wheels to be 100% correct. I use them on wheels that I have widened and tweaked a bit. They are now 6.4" wide and the tires are almost touching the rear body mount and spring plates. That combined with the fact that I can see the white letters in the rear view mirror means you can't get much wider tires under an original fender  ;D

A couple more. The green one is currently my daily driver and sees a lot of highway use. Straight as an arrow (the handling that is, not the car   ;D ).
I would also challenge every kind of stock bug to outperform it on a twisty road. Are they dangerous?  ;)

This is my new favourite picture of your car dude  ;D

I think I am going to go the "Radial" route on the 65..... Pirelli Cinturato's 155's & 185's  :)

Nothing wrong with going the radial route. But... Your combo would be great on an "ordinary" looker, afraid it will be a bit skinny for a pre-cal car..
In the pic you commented (thanks  ;) ) the oval has its stock height front beam with 5.5" Mangels and 165R15's. You can't see it in that pic but it worked like magic to give it that beefy "musclecar-look".

Edit: Found a couple of (very poor) in motion pics from a cruising. Gives kind of an idea of what I mean (car #2). Riding high with the front wheels moved outwards by the offset of the 5.5's it got "that" look  8)

Wheels are everything. An otherwise very cool car can be totally ruined by the wrong wheels and tires and how they sit. On the other hand, a pretty much boring car can be cooler than those eskimo balls by having the right combination of stance, wheels and tires..
To qoute mr Baboon: "Get a cool set of wheels and find a car that fits them"  ;D

this car gets it  8)

Thats why I have the Bluestreaks for the back  ;)

But you are right..... I might try a pair of 5.5's on the front with some 165's

But take a second look at Mike Josph's Red 65...... That has some pretty skinny rubber  :-\

Sod this!
The wide ovals look too good not to use, I think I will run some.
I am in Australia, its not as if I have to worry too much about driving in the rain..lol
Now what size would be best on some 356 rims?

I would go for the vredestein sprint classic 185 r15 91h anytime.
They look and handle  great,  and are made to fit Ferrari,... def. period correct.

That all depends on what look you are after.. They are absolutely period correct looking, although in a very different way. So much so that considering either Vredesteins 185's or wide bias ply musclecar tires is a strange thing to do as it will dramatically change the look of a car.
That being said I love Vredestein Sprint Classics and seldom use anything else when radials are called for. In the 155 or 165 width they are also very nice on a stock bug, good quality, look and handling at a decent price.
Which reminds me that I have a set off 205/70 and 155R Vredesteins in the garage. Hmm.. Maybe I need another car?  ;)

Will the Wide Ovals fit on a pair of 5.5 rims as I intend to use my 356 rims.
Still cant make my mind up between the Wide Ovals or some BF Goodrich T/A's

Dave

The F70-15's will fit on 5.5" rims without problems.

For handling and looks, try the new remade Michelin range. Old design, new build quality. Try Michelin xwx. Not cheap but they handle.

I still like "the look" of the Wide Ovals but having just priced them here in Australia at over $300 each I might have to rethink?

Hi

i´ve th Bf Goddrich in 205 / 60 R 15 in the rear... they are good to drive but for the look are tires with 70 diameter better

Also note that running radials on the front with rags in the back is asking for trouble. Technically you're not supposed to mix tire construction but even according to Michelin's old tech manuals you can so long as the radial is in the rear. For street tires at least a rag tire is not as capable of achieving as much traction as a radial tire. You always want the tire that can achieve the greater traction in the rear to prevent dangerous oversteer (and swing-axle rear-engine cars are well nigh capable of oversteering).

As someone noted earlier in this thread the rag tires also tend to self steer on inconsistencies in the roadway (squirm). If both axles self steer then the handling and ride is predictable. Rags in the front and radials in the rear will cause the front to self steer and the car to feel spooky but it's manageable (I have a car set up like this right now). Radials in the front and rags in the rear will cause the rear to self steer which can make a car flat-out terrifying to drive in some situations (I know this from experience on several cars).

If you simply must run rags on the rear then do yourself a favor and get rags for the front too. It also looks a ton better with a 5.60-15, 5.90-15, or 5.00-15 to match those square-shoulder tires in the rear. They're not as good as a radial tire but there's really nothing wrong with a rag tire if inflated to the proper pressure (the pressure car manufacturerspecifies--the sidewall pressure is simply the maximum pressure the tire requires to bear its maximum weight) on a properly aligned car. We have four cars on rag tires and we've put at least 10,000 miles a year on one of them for the past decade.

As for the heavy vibration when cold, that should be just tramping. It's most common with tires that have some polyester or nylon cords inside. The materials take a set as they cool which makes the tires 'square' until they warm up. After they warm up they should smooth right out. The old-style tires like full numerics (5.60- 6.40, 6.70, 7.00, etc) usually have cotton cords and in those cases won't tramp when cold. 

Here's all you need to know about wide ovals. I had a set of 14" versions on my first beetle back in 2002/3. It was a stock 1300 twinport and I was able to oversteer around most corners until one day I got caught out racing my mates mini down a country lane:


(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/mertito/Mobile%20Uploads/85e6640f-9484-40ee-b757-1da8c1a4bffe.jpg) (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/mertito/media/Mobile%20Uploads/85e6640f-9484-40ee-b757-1da8c1a4bffe.jpg.html)

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/mertito/Mobile%20Uploads/image-1.jpg) (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/mertito/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-1.jpg.html)

(http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee248/mertito/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg) (http://s232.photobucket.com/user/mertito/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image-2.jpg.html)

This is my first post by the way! Hi!!  ;D

Bringing this back again
I have just managed to get a pair of wide ovals
What are people using on the front?
Thanks

Nearly a year later and I have had them fitted.
(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/Mrnovan/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgl8pdjnl.jpeg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Mrnovan/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsgl8pdjnl.jpeg.html)



(http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a283/Mrnovan/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps33uxifuh.jpeg) (http://s13.photobucket.com/user/Mrnovan/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zps33uxifuh.jpeg.html)