The Cal-look Lounge

Are 42 DCNFs to big for a mild 1776? Would 40 DCNFs work better? (Or still too big?)

stock ported heads
w110 or w120 cam
1 3/8 exhaust

Playing with engine combos for the Manx and trying to come up with a good driver that will keep up with modern traffic. I have the 2332 going in the '66 for going fast.

Thanks,

--louis

42s will work great on a 1776.  I had them on mine and ran an Engle 110 cam with stock valve size heads.  It was so fun to drive and had plenty of torque.  I've seen them run on a 1600 with no issues.  You just have to jet them properly then enjoy!

Okay, then it sounds like the 42s are the way to go.

Thanks,

--louis

Excellent choice!

As an added bonus, 42's sound really good 8)

~DR.

Pain in the neck carburetors which were never designed to run on a VW! They were designed to run on a Ferrari engine, with the throttle shafts across the car. Turning them by 90 degrees to work on a VW engine causes them to flood when turning sharp corners. On a Ferrari they only temporarily flooded when braking hard. You need to make sure they have extended emulsion tubes which Berg sell – or used to – to make them work properly. Used to fit them a lot back in the 1970s and breathed a huge sigh of relied when Weber brought out the IDF and Dell'Orto the DRLA.  :D

Keith may not like them, but I have over 100k trouble free miles on them.  They aren't as purdy as IDAs, but Oh well...

I built a Bus motor for a friend in 1991-92 that ran 42's. Motor was fairly mild, small Scat cam, stock valved dual ports, low CR, 90.5x69. I recall it idled very smoothly, but like KS said, get the bus in a corner, and it was like somebody turned the lights out. He regretted using those carbs, but they came with the bus, so he compromised.
In a dune buggy, IDF's would be a snap to keep happy. You could practically clean the idle jets while driving.
My vote would be for 44IDFs

You don't think 44s would be too big? I would think 36s or 40s for a 1776. Mostly I want something that I don't have to fiddle with after getting them dialed in. Trying to make this something even the wife could drive.

--louis

40mm Webers are good for 1700 and under, in my opinion. One of the best and smoothest motor combos I know of for mild street is 1776, Engle 120, ported stock valve or 40 x 35 heads, and 44IDFs
you have Excel?

Yep, I sure do. That sounds like a nice driving motor.

--louis

pm me your email

Hmmmmm... didn't know we had a choice here... I thought you had the 42's and wondered if they would work... I should slow down and read all the text ;D

The combo "The Other One" posted is superb! I've run basically that same combo in Baja's, Bugs & Buses... Go for it!

~DR.

I loved the 42 Specials on my mild 1776 (K65, ported stock valve heads, 8:1)... ran smooth as butter and still returned 25mpg in my heavy Fastback at 80mph. I later put the carbs on an original stock 1600 dual port and they still worked fantastic.

No, this is still a paper motor sort of. I more or less have the short block and a set of stock heads I plan to self port via the Fischer book. I am still debating the P&Cs, carb & cam size. My requirements are that it be cheap, reliable and powerful enough to push a stocked geared 26-27" tall tired buggy to highway speeds for hours on end. (Up and down steep grades too) I am trying to think of a carb that would work with that size motor and my choices were the DCNFs, Kads or even a center mount of some sort. I am following the KISS principle with this one. That way if I break down in Resume Speed, North Dakota with it I can fix it easy.

Thanks,

--louis

I remember a very nice white 66 Ghia this mousey little girl owned, a good customer we had @ BH, she wanted a good "freeway motor" for her KG, so we built the motor I listed above with stock valved heads (she wanted heaters) and I swear, that motor was one of the smoothest, yet potent 1776's I can remember. Based on her gender, I was a little nervous of the nature the 120 and 44's, but when I test drove it, it pulled so smooth off idle and just kept pulling, with a wonderful high pitched howl from the carbs as the revs climbed. To top it off, the girl was really pleased with the engine and said it was night and day compared to the stock 34pict dual port 1600.
For a mild daily driver, it's a hard combo to beat. Change to K8 and bigger valves and you've upgraded to very hot street. That's the nice thing about 44IDFs, they run well on a wide array of combinations.

That sounds pretty good.

--louis

Zenith :)

Dual Bugsprays! ;D

I actually have a set of dual 350s.  ;)

--louis

I've always had a weak spot for the Zenith.

~DR.

Dave, you are King Zenith!

Sheep says if he ever has a baby girl her name will be Zenith

Not sure what would scare me worse, the name or sheep having offspring.

--louis

                                                      Awesome! When she gets older she'll have duel Zeniths!

I suggested the name "dry sump" but Zenith won out.

Guess that is better the Stroker.

--louis

...or Racer Brown, which is Sheep's other nickname from his frequency of bathroom visits at BH

Little boy could be Rod... only if he's cranky while trying to get his bearings...




nevermind

I think you're right Mark. I remember lots of people running the 42's with no complaints. I do believe Ray Zimmerman ran them in his squareback at one time.

Waaaaaay back when I had my Berg 42's, my car spent most of it's time sideways and always ran good... not to get in a pissing match or anything, but I still think they're worth considering if you like "Old School"
Not my first choice as I stand today, but cool nonetheless.

HA!!

Oh yeah, I remember Ray's Squareback VERY well ;D NICE car...

~ 8)

Dave, remember Bob bought his Berg wedgemated 74 stroke crank and flywheel from Ray. I think that was supposed to be used in that squareback.

That's right!

Where is Ray??

He lives inside Mark's cell phone. You talked to him two Bug In's ago.

I ran 42's on my 74x94, 120 cam, mild head motor for about a year and really liked them. They were very smooth. I had some issues with the choke circuits but did the berg fix and solved the problem. The only time I experienced the float problem was on the cloverleaf freeway onramps that turn 270 degrees before merging onto the freeway, It would begin to starve for fuel right near the end of it if I was into it hard.

As others had mentioned, they are not fun to work on in a bug but it can be done with a little patience. I eventually figured out the right socket/extension/rachet combo to get all 4 plugs out without pulling the carbs! No problem in a buggy, although I heard that they are not well suited for off-raod use.

The biggest concern to me is the age of these carbs and manifolds. It can be difficult to find a good pair to start with. I ran the K&N oval filters because I never liked the Berg filters. Finding good manifolds that haven't been cracked or hacked by a D.I.Y. port job is tricky also. I think the only linkage you can still buy to work on them is the berg, so that is something else to consider.

I was building the motor on a budget and picked up the whole setup cheap. It worked great until I succumbed to DKP peer pressure and switched to 48 IDA's. The 42 setup is now on a bus and still running great.

I would agree that the 44 IDf's would probably be a better way to go for you... unless a 42 setup falls into your lap

Just my two cents worth...

Dustin

Dustin... we were talking about Ray living in Mark's cell phone... try to stay on topic ;D

My Bad!! I was still pondering Sheep having offspring!

Always late to the party ;D

Where is Ray?

Well, get Ray on the phone! And, What's on second.

Now you're catching on. And I Don't Give A Darn! I say, I Don't Give A Darn!

Who's I dont give a darn??

Would you say that to the pitcher, Tomorrow?

Buzzkill.

"Berg Specials" supposedly cured the problem. Many people who used them got used to feathering the throttle slightly in a bend.

Oh he's our shortstop

For our non American friends...

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/windows_media/whos_on_first.wma (http://www.baseball-almanac.com/windows_media/whos_on_first.wma)

"Who's on First?" is a classic comedy bit made famous by Abbot & Costello.

LOL!

Thanks for all the input guys.

--louis

Made even more famous after the movie Rainman....

lets keep on  topic guys as i am pretty interested in this thread as it might help with the new Bus motor I'm gonna have to build  ;)

What mods did the Bergs do to these carbs to make them work better?

--louis

alright!

it's good to see that nice topics still can derail (if that is a word) so nicely  ;D

42's are the way to go. i have bought mine from Zach and it is just a very nice carb; the car runs better then with the 40 IDF's and responds so much better. i do have 34 vents and i might consider 32's.
my combo is 1776 with webcam 219/118 CR is about 8.5, heads are reworked stock with 40x35 valves.

now get completely offtopic as Louis has chosen DCNFs  :P

Well, change is always in the air. It looks like the engine may end up being a 1914 instead of a 1776.

--louis

I heard Sheep named his pet ferret DCNF

Louis, the 42s will still work fine on a 1914.  I've been running them on my 2007.  They are probably the smoothest running carbs you can use.  The Berg modified ones are the best.  I believe they open the idle circuit and you need to pin down the enrichment valves (piston) with set screws to keep them from flooding.  The latter is a simple procedure but is necessary.

Where's Ray?

Maybe you could point out the mods on this diagram for us - please ;) :)

Part 64 is the enrichment piston.  There is a spring above it and a swedged in retainer.  Take out the retainer and spring then tap the hole for a set screw.  Loctite the set screw and run it in to secure the piston against the seat.  There are two in each carb.  I just found a tap that would fit and purchased the same size allen set screws.  I am not sure about opening up the idle circuit, but expect it is similar to drilling a third hole in an IDA.

Cell phone.

Cool cheers dude - I am sure this will help ALOT of people  :)

Drove my new 67 back from the POD 2 weeks ago with a WPS  built 1776 with a 120 cam and a nice set of 42DCNF Berg specials which i would say was my best drive ever in a beetle, perfect rev range and nice pick up. Dont know how much was due to the carbs but i was very inpressed.


(http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m38/54oval/Picture001Medium.jpg)


Rob

ah, that's good to know, and makes sense - thanks!
I've used 40dcnfs on a couple of type 3 motors in stock format (ok, one set had the vents opened to 36, but only because i couldn't find any 42s or short idf fanimoulds at the time!), and i've got to say, they worked just fine. but then, neither car was particularly hot at cornering, so that's probably why they worked ok!

monkiboy, i have one spare set of 40s and a sweet set of 42s i've bee saving for my notch. if you sort some set screws before i do, let me know. Likewise, if I ever get round to building my type 3 motor (!), I'll give this a try and let you know how i get on ;)

I'll chime in with another thumbs up for 42's. In my '67 I had a 1776, polished and ported big valved heads, 110 and a set of 42's. It ran really well, I could even get gas mileage in the high 30's with a light foot on the long hiway trips. A real nice set-up.

-jeffrey

Hmmm this is all very interesting  :) but just how much better are DCNF's than DCN's  ??? The only real problem you have with DCN's as far as I can see is that the main jeets are in the bottom of the float bowl and not easy to access  ::) m ine are totally bone stock ie NO mods,

I have only run my DCN's for approx 400 miles now due to pushrod issues BUT I will say they are VERY VERY good, NO hesitations, VERY easy to tune and they sound AWESOME  ;D

Anyone else used/using DCN's just out interest ??? :)

Also can someone point out the MAIN JETS on this DCNF diagram please  ??? :)

24. Anyone selling Type1 manifolds for DCNF?