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Clutch slip
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Topic: Clutch slip (Read 9933 times)
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Clutch slip
«
on:
February 24, 2018, 16:59:22 pm »
Hi Guys.
I'm experiencing clutch slip.
Pressure plate is a kennedy stage 2
Disc is a Daikin .
Motor is turbo
It doesnt slip till 3rd gear on a straight. And only when at full operating temp.
Is this heat related. like does the disc material FADE like brake shoes do.
Thanks.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Erlend / bug66
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 955
SCC Event
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #1 on:
February 24, 2018, 18:22:01 pm »
Switch to a stage 3 or a better disc
Logged
The '67:
10.626 @ 132mph, SCC 2016
10.407 @ 134mph, SCC 2017
10.221 @ 135mph, SCC 2018
The '59:
Not yet..
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #2 on:
February 25, 2018, 00:15:23 am »
Hi Erland. What would be a good disc to try.
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Air cooled Engine builder
Erlend / bug66
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 955
SCC Event
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #3 on:
February 25, 2018, 00:19:22 am »
Depending on use..
I run a RLR Black Magic. And Stage 4..
Logged
The '67:
10.626 @ 132mph, SCC 2016
10.407 @ 134mph, SCC 2017
10.221 @ 135mph, SCC 2018
The '59:
Not yet..
PPRMicke
Sr. Member
Posts: 370
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #4 on:
February 25, 2018, 11:26:34 am »
Here in Sweden, use (95%) Stage 1 and blackmagic
If you use stage 4 with blackmagic, the gearbox will go into pieces
I would start with pressure on the pressure plate at 200mn ( 147 lb)
/// Micke
Logged
Erlend / bug66
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 955
SCC Event
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #5 on:
February 25, 2018, 11:49:32 am »
Quote from: PPRMicke on February 25, 2018, 11:26:34 am
Here in Sweden, use (95%) Stage 1 and blackmagic
If you use stage 4 with blackmagic, the gearbox will go into pieces
I would start with pressure on the pressure plate at 200mn ( 147 lb)
/// Micke
Well the gearbox did split in half.. but stage 3 and BM did slip in a dynapack..
Logged
The '67:
10.626 @ 132mph, SCC 2016
10.407 @ 134mph, SCC 2017
10.221 @ 135mph, SCC 2018
The '59:
Not yet..
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #6 on:
February 25, 2018, 12:24:45 pm »
OK. I'm going to weld a socket on my spare in put shaft and get a foot pound figure of when the disc slips. I'm sure it's gunna be a false reading as I think heat is playing a part as well. A little info.
It's 21 psi boost on through a type 4 and the torque hits the clutch pretty fast and hard.
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Air cooled Engine builder
Neil Davies
Hero Member
Posts: 3437
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #7 on:
February 25, 2018, 12:36:05 pm »
Do the clutch pressure plate and flywheel need resurfacing?
Logged
2007cc, 48IDFs, street car. 14.45@93 on pump fuel, treads, muffler and fanbelt. October 2017!
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #8 on:
February 25, 2018, 16:32:04 pm »
Oreet Neil. The fly and the P.P are new items with low low miles.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
mikko k
Full Member
Posts: 164
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #9 on:
February 25, 2018, 18:37:42 pm »
At this page you can see how much torque different stage Kennedy pressure plates can handle, with stock disc.
http://www.racereadyproducts.com/transmission-components/clutch-pressure-plates/
Stage 1 = 180 ft.lbs = 244Nm
Stage 2 = 220 298Nm
3 = 260 352Nm
4 = 300 406Nm
Metallic disc can add 25% more torque. I don’t know about Black Magic.
If somebody tells you that a lot of people use stage1, it only means that they have less hp and torq...
At my race engine (N/A 2,85L type 1), I had 300Nm and Stage 1 + BM disc, the clutch start to slip.. Now I have Stage 3 for next summer. I hope it helps me.
Logged
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #10 on:
February 26, 2018, 20:41:58 pm »
Ok thanks Mikko, I'm gunna check the plate face 1st , see if the disc has made a nice even pattern on the surface of the P Plate, and the fly wheel face.
I'll be back.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
spoolin70
Hero Member
Posts: 603
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #11 on:
February 26, 2018, 21:12:17 pm »
Hi Garrick
My old turbo motor made just over 300hp and I only ever used a stage 3 Kennedy pressure plate.
I can't remember exactly what disc I used but it wasn't anything fancy - organic something I think.
It never once slipped, even with R888's on the rear. Personally I didn't find it too heavy either.
Hope that helps
Darren
Logged
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #12 on:
February 26, 2018, 21:35:46 pm »
Thanks Darren the stage 3 might be the next step then. Unless this stage 2 plate face shows a bad contact patch.
The RB racing engine calculator recons I'm getting around 300 hp with 21 psi going through it.
«
Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 15:59:35 pm by GARRICK.CLARK
»
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Erlend / bug66
Global Moderator
Hero Member
Posts: 955
SCC Event
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #13 on:
February 26, 2018, 21:41:11 pm »
Stage 4 and Black Magic. 552nm/407 ft lbs to the tires.
Logged
The '67:
10.626 @ 132mph, SCC 2016
10.407 @ 134mph, SCC 2017
10.221 @ 135mph, SCC 2018
The '59:
Not yet..
hotstreetvw
Sr. Member
Posts: 291
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #14 on:
February 27, 2018, 03:26:02 am »
I ran a stage 2 and black magic. Lesson learned. I couldn't preload without jumping through the beams. Got to eliminations, I didn't preload for fear of the red light, smoked the ring and pinion and case. There is a reason why RLR suggest at most a stage one with BM.
Logged
Fiatdude
Hero Member
Posts: 1823
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #15 on:
February 27, 2018, 04:33:42 am »
I'm running a stage two with a 5 puck on my 2332 turbo, but at only 7 pounds boost with no slippage....
When I was running my 2990 turbo, it was with a stage one PP but with the Kennedy dual disc setup....
If you're really wanting to eliminate any possibility of slip I highly recommend the dual disc setup. Also one of the benefits of running the DD's you get away with a stage 1 PP and that is a lot easier on the thrust bearings in your engine while your riding the clutch
Logged
Fiat -- GONE
Ovalholio -- GONE
Ghia -- -- It's going
Get lost for an evening or two --
http://selvedgeyard.com/
Remember, as you travel the highway of life,
For every mile of road, there is 2 miles of ditch
BeetleBug
Hero Member
Posts: 2836
Snabba grabben...
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #16 on:
February 27, 2018, 09:24:56 am »
Stage 4 and Black Magic here for years with a heavy streetcar, turbo, T1 gearbox and low 60ft. I used clutch management to achieve some slip and that is the key to keep you transmission alive.
-BB-
Logged
10.41 - 100ci - 1641ccm - 400hp
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #17 on:
March 27, 2018, 19:07:27 pm »
Guys, wanna guess what the brake away torque is on my kenny stage 2 cover and daikin disc, with no shims
is gunna be.
I'll be getting a foot pound number at the week end.
«
Last Edit: April 03, 2018, 19:20:10 pm by GARRICK.CLARK
»
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #18 on:
April 05, 2018, 06:37:23 am »
Sanded the cover with some 600's wet and dry using a flat rubbing block. This has brought out the area of the cover that has the been slipping. Its from the outer edge going in a 1/3rd or the shoes surface.
«
Last Edit: April 09, 2018, 17:46:43 pm by GARRICK.CLARK
»
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #19 on:
April 09, 2018, 18:12:44 pm »
I tried the break away torque today.
My torque bar only goes to 100 ft pound.
So the bar clicked at a 100 no slip.
I put a bar on the end of the torque wrench and couldn't get that disc to budge at all.
Guess its definitely a heated up disc issue.
«
Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 19:24:51 pm by GARRICK.CLARK
»
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Stev
Newbie
Posts: 24
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #20 on:
April 17, 2018, 19:35:58 pm »
Does anybody of you guys know the release force of the Kennedy Clutchs? Not sure if "release force" is the wright describtion. I talk about the force you need to open the clutch? :-)
Logged
Looking for a flanged crankshaft, all type 4 main bearings and a flywheel for KEP clutch. Stroke 84 till 88. The bigger the better ;-)
55ragtop
Newbie
Posts: 4
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #21 on:
April 30, 2018, 23:49:03 pm »
I don’t know if Kennedy has got better but for some time there PP’s would cup or concave as soon as got a bit of heat though em and they stay that shape. I had my stage 2 machined flat again.
Logged
dragvw2180
Sr. Member
Posts: 304
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #22 on:
May 04, 2018, 22:37:02 pm »
On my turbo race car ( over 450 dynoed HP ) I tried multiple clutch set ups , spent a bloody small fortune trying all the recommended packages. After destroying one trans after another I finally tried a Double disc Rev 6 setup from Ron Lummis ,I have not broken anything trans wise since . I sold my race car and kept my 2387 race engine which I installed in my street car , only change was traded my 600 Holly for a 48 Dellorto side draft prepped by Dave Kawell , takes getting used to but now very driveable on the street/track . Mike McCarthy
P.S my friend John Toomey liked my setup so well he put it on his new turbo car also with the same results .
Logged
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #23 on:
May 10, 2018, 19:17:32 pm »
Thanks Mike.
I'll look into this if the CB Dual disc doesn't work.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #24 on:
June 10, 2018, 21:05:04 pm »
Hi Guys. I've now fitted the CB dual disc. So far so good no slip. It does have a bit of judder when you 1st set off ,I'll have to get used to it I suppose.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Garrick Clark
Sr. Member
Posts: 499
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #25 on:
June 15, 2018, 20:15:45 pm »
Hi guys.
I'm looking for v dubbers to tell me about how your turbo bug drives on the street.
Mine with the stage 2 and the CB dual disc is getting difficult to drive. Yes the clutch doesn't slip which is Good,but the bug is getting more difficult to drive around town. I feel that this bug needs me to be more aggressive with the stand still starts from the lights, like more revs and let the clutch out quick in order to stop the clutch juddering. I think trying to be smooth with it will eventually brake something as it doesn't like it.
Looks like my bug isnt a street bug anymore.
Logged
Air cooled Engine builder
Martin S.
Hero Member
Posts: 990
Re: Clutch slip
«
Reply #26 on:
June 15, 2018, 20:51:15 pm »
I call it chatter but whatever you call it my car has it too. It's a milder turbo, and the last time the engine was out the guy put in a Stage 1 vs the Stage 2 that was in it with a different disc as well. I don't race it so not sure about slippage, and mostly just do roll-ons and with the smooth turbo power I don't have any complaints.
Except for the chatter
After playing around with a few things, I did some reading on here and the next thing I will try is a kafer cup/ engine brace. What they said was that over time the frame horns drop down slightly and then wiggle up and down as you drive and release the clutch, and things start to move and cause the chatter. Stabilizing the frame horns is supposed to help. I just ordered one, along with a HD trans support which tie the frame horns together better. We shall see if it works
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=C13%2D17%2D2975
https://www.cip1.ca/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC%2D111%2D301%2D255%2DAHD
«
Last Edit: June 15, 2018, 22:00:38 pm by Martin S.
»
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Cal Look white 68 Bug with AJ Sims EFI Turbo 2332. 194hp 240tq @ 5500 rpm 3psi boost.
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