69 2276 efi bug

[baz]

Finally got my new crank assembly back from stateside all balanced and ready to go. Took a quick measuremant of the rod journals and they look like 54.97 which should work great with my rod bearings which come to 55.03.

Got the car back home too at last, still plenty to do with it along with building the engine. Really struggling to get time to do anything at the moment as flat out with work including weekends. Summer is gonna slip away if I don't start getting stuff done.

Lovely new crank assembly



And the car back home in the shed at last after being away for 7 months.

[baz]

Got a few hours in the garage yesterday and managed to get the crank spinning smooth as silk. Took about 5 attempts as had a slight tight spot that needed tracing down. I found it by removing number 1 and 4 bearings and torquing up the case, it  spun perfect so opened it up again and refitted number 1,  torqued it up again and it spun perfect.  Refitted number 4 and tight spot returned so I changed that bearing for another one and finally have it spinning beautifully. Dunno what I did wrong but suspect I may have pinched number 4 somehow.

Happy to reach my first small milestone, next step is get the cam in and set the endplay

[dragvw2180]

I am sure that you already know but check the alignment of every oil passage in that aluminum case , I have had to modify every case to align with the main bearings. Failing to do so will result in oil restriction or complete lack of oiling . Another thing I continually see is the radius of the crank main journals are so large that they rub the chamfer on the #1  main bearing which will lead to the same problem you had before  .  If I can help contact me and I will be happy to help any way I can. Mike McCarthy

[baz]

Hi mike thanks for the kind offer,  there's lots I'm not confident with so I suspect I'll be needing advice as and when problems arise. 

I'll be modifying the bearings to align properly with the oil holes for sure. I haven't checked the radius on the crank but I will see what I can figure out with that later today.

The cause of my last lock up was tight rod bearings, I know I have better radial clearance this time. Hopefully the crank having come from dpr will be fine on the radius but I'll check it for sure.

Thanks

[dragvw2180]

 I am sure they do a great job , Jose is a real good guy to deal with . Try using a felt tip marker on the whole beveled surface of the bearing , then push it onto the crank toward the counterweight and while applying pressure rotate the bearing back and forth . When you pull the bearing off look for any shiny spots, there should be no contact in that area. Flange cranks seen to be the worst with this problem. You are right on by using tools to measure (bore guage , Mic ) to actually measure bearing clearance. The days of taking for granted that because you have a new crank, rods ,case and bearings that a set of standard bearings will go right in are gone. It seems like I have to modify every part in some way in order to use them .  Mike

[baz]

Checked the radius and it's fine, used the felt tip like you suggested and it didn't touch it.

Set the cam endplay at .08mm by sanding the thrust faces of the bearings

Frustrating last couple of hours trying to double and triple check radial clearances on the rods. I initially mic'd my rod bearings a while back and got .05-06mm clearance. Used plastigauge today to confirm and got .045mm. Got the mics out again and now getting .10mm with the mics. Walked away from it in the end as it was getting annoying. Hope to have a full day on it sunday starting from scratch.

[Iryanu]

Looks like you're doing it properly without that PIRATE. 

I feel for you man, having had a similar experience as you know.

Good progress, keep on truckin'

[beetletom]

How are you getting on with this baz?
Found a stock motor yet?
I know of a cheap 03 locally, with a 1600 , but a little endy

[baz]

Hi tom, making some progress with the engine build,  have a few days off this week so hoping to get more done. Looking at a couple of cheap motors tomorrow with the intention of passing an mot in the next week or so.

How cheap is the 03?

Good to see you got your red car back.

[beetletom]

Will pop over one evening and check out your bug

£500. I was going to buy it and break it

[baz]

Could be intetested if you wanna pass on it. Drop over anytime

[baz]

I've been making small progress with the engine,  I am happy with the crank and cam and lifters and now the rods and piston heights.
I switched from 5.4 to 5.5 rods which gave me negative deck and varying piston heights when all mocked up. I went through each available combo of rod/piston/location to find what worked and got good results. Discovered i was running 1.9mm deck before with the old rods, wanna get that down 1.25 to give me the compression to match the 10.1 the cam advises.

Thats about as far as i can get now until i get some longer barrels machined to suit. My old mahles are scratched deep so i need new barrels anyway and can do away with spacers this way.

Some boring deck measuring pics that took a good 12 hours to find matching rod /piston combos for each hole.








Have a question about my crank and bearings, my crank is straight drilled and doesn't even have troughs around the feeds on the main journals. I've read these cranks should be used with internally grooved bearings. My bearings are external groove type. Am I looking at trouble? 

There are 3 options here,  I can find new bearings, i can machine a groove into my bearings or crank,  or i can not worry about it.  Any advice which is best option?

[baz]

Ok after a long period of laziness and loss of interest, I'm back on this engine build.

Got my new long barrels and I've got a guy lined up to cut them to length once I work out what I need.

My old barrels are quite scratched up so I'm now wondering if I should re-use the old rings or not. I can't see and nicks or damage on them,  using total seal second rings.

Can anyone advise whether I should get new rings or if the set I have would be ok?  Basically should new cylinders have new rings?

[Martin S.]

Yes new cylinders should have new rings because used rings have worn themselves into whatever cylinders they were run on. You can re-use cylinders by honing them straight, but not rings. It is an excellent idea to get your new cylinders honed straight because they are never perfect from mass production.

[baz]

Yes new cylinders should have new rings because used rings have worn themselves into whatever cylinders they were run on. You can re-use cylinders by honing them straight, but not rings. It is an excellent idea to get your new cylinders honed straight because they are never perfect from mass production.

Thanks martin. I had kinda decided to get new ones as whatever scratched my barrels went through the rings too.  There was a lot of debris in that engine when it was pulled apart.

Guess I need a new oil cooler too as who knows what's inside.

What rings should I be looking for?  I have mahle 94mm pistons.

[baz]

Today I've been installing my long cylinders to try work out how much I need them cut down by to give me the desired deck height.




Tried each cylinder on no1 piston location to begin with to check they are all the same length. They appear to be within .05mm if I'm not screwing up my measuring!

I already had worked out matching piston/rod/locations from last time I was working on the motor. I have pretty good numbers in all 4 locations. Numbers 1+2 differ by .01mm and numbers 3+4 differ by .03mm.  

The max difference from one side to the other is .11mm.  

So do I get 2 cylinders cut .11mm shorter than the other 2 to give equal heights from left bank to right?

Do I use the lowest piston for my calculations and have the neighbouring piston crown cut down to match?

What is considered a good tolerance on this?  I dunno if I asked a machinist to remove .03mm from a piston crown would he tell me to get out of his shop Is this something thats well within tolerances?

Back to the. .05mm difference on the cylinder lengths,  how do I ask for these to be cut?  Do I need to work out each individual cylinder and how long I need it to be,  or do I just need to ask for x amount to be cut off each cylinder?

[Felix/DFL]

Tried each cylinder on no1 piston location to begin with to check they are all the same length. They appear to be within .05mm if I'm not screwing up my measuring!

I already had worked out matching piston/rod/locations from last time I was working on the motor. I have pretty good numbers in all 4 locations. Numbers 1+2 differ by .01mm and numbers 3+4 differ by .03mm.  

The max difference from one side to the other is .11mm.  

So do I get 2 cylinders cut .11mm shorter than the other 2 to give equal heights from left bank to right?

Do I use the lowest piston for my calculations and have the neighbouring piston crown cut down to match?

What is considered a good tolerance on this?  I dunno if I asked a machinist to remove .03mm from a piston crown would he tell me to get out of his shop Is this something thats well within tolerances?

Back to the. .05mm difference on the cylinder lengths,  how do I ask for these to be cut?  Do I need to work out each individual cylinder and how long I need it to be,  or do I just need to ask for x amount to be cut off each cylinder?

On my 2,2l build I had shim one side a bit more under the cyl than on the other side for deck height closer to each. Trimming in a shop would be the better option but time was running...

Good test is even bolting both cyl down with a fixture/straps and check if both are on one height (perfect head sealing), I used a long straight-edge for that step.
I had to fine tune the cyl. lenght (head side) with grinding on a flat glass surface.
Then I fine tuned the deck height to the biggest gap by grinding the pistons on my well beloved glass plate down.

On the 1. site are some pic`s in my notch thread:
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,12030.0.html

Have fun and nice project with doing it perfect now, that rocker shaft spacers are beyond belief what a pirate!

[Andrew]

And the car back home in the shed at last after being away for 7 months.

Where did you get the wheels from, looks like Gas Burners but wide 5, am I right?

  thanks,

Andrew

[baz]

Tried each cylinder on no1 piston location to begin with to check they are all the same length. They appear to be within .05mm if I'm not screwing up my measuring!

I already had worked out matching piston/rod/locations from last time I was working on the motor. I have pretty good numbers in all 4 locations. Numbers 1+2 differ by .01mm and numbers 3+4 differ by .03mm.  

The max difference from one side to the other is .11mm.  

So do I get 2 cylinders cut .11mm shorter than the other 2 to give equal heights from left bank to right?

Do I use the lowest piston for my calculations and have the neighbouring piston crown cut down to match?

What is considered a good tolerance on this?  I dunno if I asked a machinist to remove .03mm from a piston crown would he tell me to get out of his shop Is this something thats well within tolerances?

Back to the. .05mm difference on the cylinder lengths,  how do I ask for these to be cut?  Do I need to work out each individual cylinder and how long I need it to be,  or do I just need to ask for x amount to be cut off each cylinder?

On my 2,2l build I had shim one side a bit more under the cyl than on the other side for deck height closer to each. Trimming in a shop would be the better option but time was running...

Good test is even bolting both cyl down with a fixture/straps and check if both are on one height (perfect head sealing), I used a long straight-edge for that step.
I had to fine tune the cyl. lenght (head side) with grinding on a flat glass surface.
Then I fine tuned the deck height to the biggest gap by grinding the pistons on my well beloved glass plate down.

On the 1. site are some pic`s in my notch thread:
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,12030.0.html

Have fun and nice project with doing it perfect now, that rocker shaft spacers are beyond belief what a pirate!

Thanks felix   I have sent my cylinders today, requested 2 cut   .10mm longer to compensate for the difference.

Thats a good idea grinding the cylinders and pistons to fine tune any differences. I might use that trick when my stuff gets back.

I'm trying my best with the motor, I'm probably being greedy or unrealistic but I'd love to not see the inside again for a long time, and when I do open it again I'd love to find no problems or worn out parts.  

[baz]

And the car back home in the shed at last after being away for 7 months.

Where did you get the wheels from, looks like Gas Burners but wide 5, am I right?

  thanks,

Andrew

Hi andrew,  they are mahle gas burners,  must be funny camera angle maybe.

[Andrew]

What's the PCD they look like 5 lugs?

 thanks,

Andrew

[baz]

What's the PCD they look like 5 lugs?

 thanks,

Andrew

5x130 porsche pattern.  I remember talk of wide 5 being produced by someone in the states but don't think it ever happened.

[baz]

Cylinders came home from shortening the other day, mocked them up today and turns out the machinist made a balls of them. Instead of getting 2 longer for 3+4 he cut me 2 shorter!

Had enough of it all,  anyone wants to make me an offer on the lot pm me.

[leec]

Don't give up Baz,
It will be worth it in the end.
Lee

[baz]

Don't give up Baz,
It will be worth it in the end.
Lee

It'll never be worth it Lee,  not even in 20 years will it ever be worth what it's costing. I cannot keep throwing money at it so really feel I should cut my losses and forget about vws.

[leec]

Shame, but I do understand.
Wish I could afford the burners!
Lee

[DaveN]

get 2 new barrels or re cut them all and use a shim/barrel spacer?

[baz]

The burners are the only thing I won't lose on, got a screaming deal on them.

Can't say the same about the motor, so far I've bought 2 cranks, 2 flywheels, 2 clutches, 2 balancing jobs, 2 sets of barrels, 2 sets of rockers, 2 sets of pushrods, 2 oil pumps, 2 fans, lots of bearings, paid for it to be built, paid for dyno session,  paid a lot of money to a cowboy for very little in return. And all I have is a 10 second video of it on the dyno before it seized! 

[leec]

It's tough, people and companies have really fucked you over and that's not on.
PM me a price for the burners, have porsche pattern JGE kozmiks (new) I could part ex to keep your car rolling
Lee

[vwhelmot]

Behave Baz, your car needs finishing mate. It will be awesome when it's done, have a few beers and get back on track. The amount of times I've questioned what I'm doing to Fubar is unreal but then I remember why I started it.