"Mama don't let your street cars grow up to be race cars"

[Jim Ratto]

Had a short but nice discussion on this topic with a friend/customer this morning, and it took me back to those godawful days when I started down that road and lost my way and almost left the scene. What was a perfectly driveable, fairly practical and very fast street car quickly turned into a fussy, no-fun-to-drive, and not much faster (if any) prima donna. Brian, I hope I didn't offend, but in my twisted little view, you need two separate cars if you want to go "class racing", don't ever let a race class determine what you do to your perfectly good street car. To be able to hop in it most any old time, fire it up and go raise some hell (even if that means just scaring yourself racing around under the cam) beats sitting in the lanes on a hot day anytime.
Maybe I'm an old crumudgeon....

[Donny B.]

I have always had a problem with folks taking a beautiful street car and turning it into a race car.  You end up stripping the car down to lose weight and changing things that can sometimes be difficult to change back.  A second car makes much more sense to me.  I realize that cost can be an issue, but to me I would rather have a fun street car.  I never cared much for drag racing my car, perhaps because I wasn't very good at it.  I would rather have a nice driver than a race car, that's just me.  Maybe it has something to do with me doing without any car for ten months before I got my VW.  When I met my wife I was driving the same VW I drive today.  Next month I will have owned my VW for 26 years.

[TexasTom]

Hear Here!
Been there, done THAT. Ugh.
I cannot say that racing isn't fun ... it's a BLAST!
BUT, I'd so much rather be able to climb in and blow down to the road just for some quick fun, than have to load up & trailer to the track to be able to enjoy it.
If you can have both, that's the way to do it.
 

[Peter]

I think you can have both, like Pete Shattock,
when you look at his car, it screams to you that it wants to race: lightened to the max, mag wheels,..
but he drives it all over the place

Best of both worlds in my opinion

[Jim Ratto]

Hear Here!
Been there, done THAT. Ugh.
I cannot say that racing isn't fun ... it's a BLAST!
BUT, I'd so much rather be able to climb in and blow down to the road just for some quick fun, than have to load up & trailer to the track to be able to enjoy it.
If you can have both, that's the way to do it.
 

Yep, racing your street car, at your own leisure and in your own style is fun. Very good memories of driving my car to Sears Pt for high school style trophy drags, just a good way to kill off a day with the fun of waking a few V8 guys up. But getting on the never ending treadmill of trying to set the world on fire with a "street car", being hamstringed by weight, engine limitations, not to mention broken parts, trailer maintenance, related expenses, etc. It gets old fast. On the contrary, taking a nice long, satisfying run in your hot street car is one of life's true pleasures. To return home and tuck the car in the garage after the trip, and listen to it cool off, and dust ithe bugs and dirt off, that's where it's at.

[dannyboy]

funny that , i have never got my kicks out of driving my bug on the street i much prefer to load it up take it to shakey or the pod and rag the life out of it then if its not broke load it up and return it to its little house until next time hence why im selling my street car and have bought a race car didnt want to muller a real nice street car
to make it msa legal  ill probably be bored with the racecar next year and will be trying to buy back my street car 

[Fiatdude]

You mean yer suppose to clean the bugs and dirt off -- -- Damn, so that is what I've been doing wrong

Anyway -- with enuff HP (read= big enuff turbo) any street car can be a race car

[Jeff68]

Funny, I was thinking the same sort of thing.  I haven't drag raced my street car at the track but I've considered it.  I'm actually thinking of building a milder engine (1776) putting it in my car and buying another car to put the stroker engine with IDA's in.  If I did this I would raise the compression and inrease displacement a little.  The race car would be gutted and be a race only car.  I guess I just wonder what the stroker would do in a more "race" configuration.

I read once that (if it's a pan based car) it's cheaper / easier to build a race only car than a street - race car.  Race car doesn't have to have a flawless paint job, be quiet inside, ride soft, nice interior, wipers, lights, fancy trim work, radio, etc. and is lighter. Just my $0.02

[volksnut]

I've always tried to get the best of both worlds....my car isn't that fast but it isn't slow either (8.15 in 1/8th mile), yeah it's now turbo'ed but not full tilt mega psi .....plus I don't have a trailer and don't have a big truck, though it would be nice to have both

[volksnut]

opps double post

[Rick Meredith]

Agree Jim. I know that we've lost guys because their cars are no longer fun to drive. I think that it was one of the factors that caused the demise of Der Renn Kafer Cup.

[team97]

Bakkens car is back on the street

[Rick Meredith]

I meant to say something about that in my post too.

Great to see that back on the street!

[Jim Ratto]

Bakkens car is back on the street

everybody assumes I'm talking about Scott's car? WTF? has nothing to do wth his car... 
this all goes back to a certain somebody I knew very well about 10 yr ago that was convinced "bigger is better", if dual springs are good, then triples must be best, etc etc etc... guy never had a real street car, so I'm not surprised. Brian at Ray's shop started asking me if I knew anything about some new class where you have to run a certain CNC head untouched, and a bunch of other limitations (as far as he was aware). To me playing by rules is no fun, I never liked being told what i can and can't do with my car, and never will. Seemed silly to build a street car to some race class specs. You end up with a street car you can't really drive or a slow race car.
Hi Glenn, how are you? Miss seeing you around dude. 

[team97]

I was just sayin..............

[Sam K]

I went though the same thing with my '67 a few years ago. It had evolved from a mildly quick but street car wiht a 1776 that was a dead consistent bracket car into a beast with a high compression stroker, solid mounts, close ratio gears, and a stripped interior. It would run in the 13's at our alttiude but it was horibble to to drive, inconsistent,  and destroyed several transmissions. I gave up and turned it back into a nice street car with a full interior, stereo and gas heater and I love driving it again. It will still run mid to low 14's but i can drive it anywhere and on pump gas. I still race it once a year at the Denver Bug In. For regular drag racing, I got into 5.0 mustangs and have found them to be a great race car right out of the box. The itch to race a bug has never gone away, though, so I've been slowly collecting parts to build another race bug.

[kingsburgphil]

Had a short but nice discussion on this topic with a friend/customer this morning, and it took me back to those godawful days when I started down that road and lost my way and almost left the scene. What was a perfectly driveable, fairly practical and very fast street car quickly turned into a fussy, no-fun-to-drive, and not much faster (if any) prima donna. Brian, I hope I didn't offend, but in my twisted little view, you need two separate cars if you want to go "class racing", don't ever let a race class determine what you do to your perfectly good street car. To be able to hop in it most any old time, fire it up and go raise some hell (even if that means just scaring yourself racing around under the cam) beats sitting in the lanes on a hot day anytime.
Maybe I'm an old crumudgeon....

Once again you're 'spot on' Jim.   I could write a page on that subject 

[Neil Davies]

I can see your point Jim, but I'm going to disagree a little.

I raced in a bracket championship from 1999 until 2005, first with my Ghia (just a simple cal looker with a 1641 with 36 Dells - ran 18.0s so not fast on the track but a nice useable daily driver) and then with a race-only Beetle. The beetle started out with a 1584cc motor with those same 36's off the ghia, and progressed, gaining slicks, then a close ratio box as funds permitted, then a high-compression 2180IDA motor which threw a rod, then a flanged crank, superflo headed 2276 which never lived up to expectations before a mahle piston disintegrated and took out most of the motor, before finally settling on my last 2276 IDA motor. I always intended to put the beetle on the street, but working out a glass windscreen and wipers for a roofchopped car always seemed like a job for another day!
At the end of 2005 I sold my race car to build a fast street car, keeping the motor and a few other bits, but getting rid of the slicks and CR gearbox. With the race car I'd got so much invested in it that it seemed a real shame to only be able to drive it 8 times a year, weather permitting!

Within weeks of selling my race car, Outlaw Flat Four was launched, and over the five seasons we've existed I've seen lots of cars go from street to full race. I will race again, but in a street car, and I'm going to do my best not to let my car become a race only car. It won't be the quickest, not by a long shot, but I'd like to run as quick as my old race car did (12.0/12.1's) and still be capable of driving to the track and back again if I've not broken it...


Maybe it's because I've got other cars I can use on a daily basis now, but the idea of a street legal race car appeals more now than it ever did before.

[Jeff68]

I guess all I ever wanted was to have a 12 sec street car.  I wanted to still be able to drive it on the freeway for 100 miles without overheating, run on pump gas, be not that loud (maybe I'm getting old) and have a full interior, lights ect.  I know this is a tall order and not easy or cheap to do with an air cooled VW.

[Jason Foster]

  The new cnc class isn't that bad... guys are doing high 10's and very low 11's.  With race cars though.

  I agree with this but at the same time I enjoy the hell out of my 12 sec street car and will continue to race from time to time even buying a new set of rims for racing while keeping my street wheels and tires of course. It's geared for the street doing the 1/4 in third. I also drive it to and from every race, well over 100 miles round trip to fontana. It's loud and unruly and does run a touch of race fuel but that's how I built it.

[Jim Ratto]

I guess all I ever wanted was to have a 12 sec street car.  I wanted to still be able to drive it on the freeway for 100 miles without overheating, run on pump gas, be not that loud (maybe I'm getting old) and have a full interior, lights ect.  I know this is a tall order and not easy or cheap to do with an air cooled VW.

Me too, wanted the ability to run high 12's/low 13's, but have the car retain more of a sports car feel rather than a drag car. Usable horsepower and all the stuff that makes a car a car.

[Fiatdude]

The Perfect street car

and .. .. .. interior is highly overrated lol

[Fiatdude]

and this Austin was another of my street cars


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Pgt4ziwljzw" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/Pgt4ziwljzw</a>

[Deanodynosaurs]

I pretty much agree with what Neil Davies says (And not just cause he's a mate!  )

As did his, my street car started life as just that, but then as you do, I wanted to go and race it, and i turned into a full on race car with a close ratio box, slicks, no cooling, plexi glass windows, nitrous etc.

Was great for a few years, but as many have said, it became frustration that i could only use it a few times a year at the track, and living in the UK as i do, most of those events seemed to get rained off anyway!

I couldnt just jump in it, and drive it to our VW club and enjoy it. I couldnt take anybody else in it because it only had one seat. It just got a frustrating expensive toy in the end.

Anyway that why i'm now building a street car, with a reasonable sized engine in it, so that if i wanna go race i can, but so that I can also just enjoy VW's! The enjoyment side often get forgotten with a full on race car, as it just become serious.

Dude

[Nico86]

To return home and tuck the car in the garage after the trip, and listen to it cool off, and dust ithe bugs and dirt off, that's where it's at.

 

[javabug]

To return home and tuck the car in the garage after the trip, and listen to it cool off, and dust ithe bugs and dirt off, that's where it's at.

...before the cops show up.   

[Jim Ratto]

  The new cnc class isn't that bad... guys are doing high 10's and very low 11's.  With race cars though.

  I agree with this but at the same time I enjoy the hell out of my 12 sec street car and will continue to race from time to time even buying a new set of rims for racing while keeping my street wheels and tires of course. It's geared for the street doing the 1/4 in third. I also drive it to and from every race, well over 100 miles round trip to fontana. It's loud and unruly and does run a touch of race fuel but that's how I built it.

Jason, gotta give you props (as with plenty of other cars out and about). Never seen your car treated as a prima donna, never heard you utter the words "that's too far", "it's too hot" or "I'm not parking my car there". All I see is you driving that car with zest. Good for you. Your car is a street car. I'm sure if I told you there was a party going on @ my place up in Simi, in the high of summer, you'd bring the car... no doubt in my mind.
Once one starts sacrificing the "use-ability" of a fast VW to the gods of the drag (or show) strip, the street car definition loses something.

[Jason Foster]

  Thanks Jim...When's the party?

[Rick Meredith]

  Thanks Jim...When's the party?

Party at Jim's? 

I'M IN! 

[wolfswest]

for me, the street is were it all happens.  Haven't been on the strip yet, but I guess that's something that will probably never happen.  As I like dragracing very much and I like to see as much as events in the country I can't see myself on the strip.  First of all I would be too nervous with the crowd and I think there is no reason to race it.  the car is a full weight streetcar with a stock ratio gearbox and a 190hp powerplant so it will be in no way a headturner on the strip.  Nobody there is waiting for another mid to high 13 sec car...  If I plan to take it out on the strip it can go two ways...
You get your first ET and of course you want to improve it and before you know it you end at the end of the day with the passenger and backseat against the car, less psi in the tires and if you are "lucky" with a broken gearbox looking for a trailer to get you home.  A big fat empty wallet and a car that's out for months because you need to save up for a new gearbox...    If you got more "luck" you manage to get home safe and had probably a blast!  Then you start buying slicks, more weight reducement, even more compression and in the long run you will trash that gearbox and even more parts.  Well, call me a sissy but I don't want to end up like that.

I like my car and the way I can use it like it is now!  For me, nothing beats to take it out on a sunny day, drive to nowhere with my favorite mixtapes and grab some fries and a burger in a diner I've never been to.  Nothing more, nothing less!  Enjoy the music, the scenery and the engine sound and performance of course!  It even gets better if a few club members with lookers join me and I even get more lucky I can race some cars at the traffic lights...  Hell yeah, some good old fasioned fun, nothing wrong with that if you do it in a place where it's "safe".  No kids around, not too much traffic, just you and another go fast nut against you and a long lane a head of you...  Green, and go!  shift that motherfucker like there is no tomorrow and most of the time you win the races.  Adrenaline up, you know you have a "fast" car, on the streets and that's just fine for me.  The guy in the 80ies carrera against you will give you a thumb up if you just beat him or ignore you and didn't know what just happened and act like nothing happened...  either way, it's all good.

There, that's my story.  Probably the story of many cal look fanatics in the 70ies, right now, and hopefully also in the future.  Just drive that looker as much as you can, keep it as long as you can, enjoy it, finetune it, wax it,... 
Ah man, that's it, I'm heading for the garage to fill up a bucket with nice hot water with foaming mothers car shampoo in it, and start washing it with love, enjoy a cold ice tea and some favorite tunes... 

cheers guys,

Dem