Alternatives to Engle 130?

[StewRat]

I've got most of my engine parts gathered now - main missing link is the cam.

Calculations based on the 40mm inlet valve size and 1:1.25 rockers suggested the Engle W130 was the right kind of cam.

But my strategy of watching and waiting on forums and ebay hasnt found any of those below my target (best retail) price.

So I'm wondering if there are equivalents/better that I should consider ?

This is fora drag-only 2276 motor with dual DRLA 40s.

Appreciate any thoughts.

Stewart

[Jim Ratto]

Scat C65 or Web 121?

[gkeeton@zbzoom.net]

Crower 61006.

[Zach Gomulka]

Why were 1.25 rockers suggested?? If you already have them then sure, but if you're buying rockers get 1.4's.

[StewRat]

Why were 1.25 rockers suggested?? If you already have them then sure, but if you're buying rockers get 1.4's.

Thanks for all the leads - I will investigate

@Zach - I got the 1.25 rockers when I was focussed on the fact that they plus a W130 seemed to give the right results. They popped up as a bargain so I grabbed them

[DWL_Puavo]

For those 40 DRLA:s, the biggest venturi size is 36mm. For 2276cc engine they probably won't flow enough on higher rpm's where W130-like cam makes most power. Maybe a bit same thing for the 40mm inlet valve if the heads hasn't been ported very much. So for this combo to work, I would suggest a bit milder cam so that the cam's sweet spot comes to lower rpm's than W130. Maybe W120, max power somewhere in 5500-6000rpm region and wider torque curve -> more usable power also on strip.

But then again - for this summer the engine will be a lot of fun, for the next summer there's pretty much everytime going to be upgrades for more power Then it's always easier to change just the carbs, or both carbs and heads if there's enough cam already present and ramp up max rpm's for another 1000

[leec]

I would sell the rockers, carbs and heads you have and go bigger.
If you want a drag only car don't build a mild 2276cc. Just save a bit more, and do it right first time

[StewRat]

@DWL_Puavo and Leec

Thanks

I know this is a mild 2276 - it was going to be a 1914 until I got a deal on an 82mm crank and stroker B&P
And therefore carbs are mild - but they were 250 GBP , and the heads are CB versions with some CNC port work that I will supplement.

First priority is to get up and running - even if not ideal combo. I'm not going to postpone that by backtracking and selling what I've got already. Onwards!!


 

[nicolas]

even if i would not use a W130 with 1.25's personally, why not buy it at a 'less then bottom-price'? i can not immagine a new right out of the box matched to you followers being that much more expensive, as opposed to a cheaper used one. i know i am the guy that wants parts at a best possible price, but i have learned a few times that cheap, isn't always best. expensive isn't always best either… but buying the right part from the start will almost always be the cheapest choice in the long run.

[Zach Gomulka]

The 40 Dell's and a 130-ish cam will not get along well. Bottom end should be "ok" (because of the displacement), but once the cam comes on the engine will be sucking through a straw.

I would go with a milder 120 cam, 125 (or similar grinds) max if you plan on upgrading the heads and carbs somewhere down the line.

[spanners]

^^^^^ this, nothing wrong with 40x35.5, worked properly they support 170hp with fab gas speed and great throttle response, preferable for variable throttle work and better than bad 42/44s,  but you need 38mm chokes to do it, 45 dells are far more versatile and support a 40mm choke.

[fish]

What's the calculated dynamic c/r? How well do the heads flow?
DRAG ONLY engine and you want a cheap alternative to W130 i'm guessing with cheap lifters.
Buy a W130 and as stated by others above, you will choke the engine just as the cam comes on, depending which heads you have.
It doesn't mean that you have bought your parts cheap they will work for your combo especially on a drag engine @ WOT. You asked for advice, please listen to the talent trying to advise you.

[Udo]

Pauter o3 or R9

Udo

[leec]

Also, if you have bought your current parts cheap, sale them on and make a bit of money to pay for a better/slightly more expensive part that will better suit your engine. Then you get a quality engine for a better value

Lee

[Torben Alstrup]

For an econo drag only engine with run what you brung parts it could work , shall we say decent. The W130 iwith 1,25´s is an option. If you install the cam straight up instead of advanced as it comes (meaning retarding it something like 3 degrees) you will get decent filling at the right time in the cycle. Also, since it is a drag only engine you could machine a set of custom 38 mm venturies for the carbs. The engine will not pick up so well under 2500ish rpm, but will work quite well upwards. I regularly pull 150 plus hp out of 40 Dells for the street. This "trick" will make the engine capable of at least 165 hp. By then the heads are most likely just about done hp wise too.

I´d say go for it.

T

[fish]

Having a 40mm inlet, I'm assuming the heads are CB CNC Super Mag Round Port flowing 140@.500" to be paired up with W130 or equivalent?
Realistically even with the 38mm venturies, will the engine make 120HP.
Sure, run it and have a blast. Could you improve the combo, absolutely.

[Torben Alstrup]

No, with good CR and that much displacement you can exploit air speed to the limit, so even a set of super mags (Round ports) will be able to support 150 hp, maybe even a little more. This is a 2165 with an FK8, CNC round port heads, 9,5 CR, 44 IDF´s and a Turbo Thomas 1 5/8" buggyheader: http://bugfans.de/forum/resources/dam-2165/36261
more cam duration, more displacement, a tad less valve lift and a tad less carb flow will easily make the same power if not more. 10,5-1 CR and a good build and I wouldnt be surprised if it pulled close to 160 hp.

T

[besserwisser]

I would put in an Engle 140 and find a camshaft that really puts everything on the edge. If you have a leadfoot you will love it.

[fish]

Torben, with the numbers below and non worked heads, my estimate is max 120HP. I will have a humble pie if i am wrong.

CB cnc round port + W130 .419 267* @ .050 IC60 installed as per card
flow 140@.500
chamber 67cc
deck 0.040
Static C/R 8.7
Dynamic C/R 6.4

[Torben Alstrup]

Torben, with the numbers below and non worked heads, my estimate is max 120HP. I will have a humble pie if i am wrong.

CB cnc round port + W130 .419 267* @ .050 IC60 installed as per card
flow 140@.500
chamber 67cc
deck 0.040
Static C/R 8.7
Dynamic C/R 6.4

1. Stock 044´s with 40 / 35 mm valves and no work done to them flows about 128 cfm @ 25" and 0,500" lift if i recall.
CNC round ports flows 148 - 150 cfm @ 0,600. 140 @ 0,500" sounds about right.
2. Deck OK to low on a stroker. I´m a sissy, so I like 1,1 mm., at least on long strokes.
3. Why on earth only 8,7 static??? That cam dont begin to work poroperly on this side of 9,5-1. On premium fuel 10 or even 10,5 - 1 is good. For a weekend drag car definitely 10,5 - 10,8-1 CR.
With 1,25 rockers on the W130 I´m sure you can exploit the port velocity very well. That way the peak power will be somewhere in the 140 - 150 hp. Don´t underestimate port velocity. ;-)
Also, as I menthioned earlier. If it was me I would retard the cam closer to 107-108 ILC especially when the engine is so large.

T

[fish]

The calculated compression is based on cam and head figures.

With the cam retarted 3* to IC63 and keeping 67cc chambers the dynamic C/R drops to 6.2 waaaay too low and I always work of a dynamic C/R because it takes into account the most important valve timing event: Intake closing point ABDC

I agree with you the W130 only starts working @ 9.5/10:1, thats why I think the engine will be lazy and not make a heap of usable power.

I also agree with you on the importance of Port velocity, it creates torque due to good fill, turbulence and efficiency.

In order for the W130 to work with the assumed heads being CB Round Ports 40/35, the chamber will need to be 50cc with a touch of black magic porting and blending.

[Torben Alstrup]

The W130 is 3-4 degrees advanced in the grind. So retarding it 3 degrees only brings it back around 107-108 ILC.

[StewRat]

Really loving the constructive debate on this.

I was tempted to get a bit defensive earlier on about the "cheap" references - there's a difference between buying cheap parts and buying the right parts as cheap as possible. I'm trying to do the latter; I'm sure many of us are.

Really really useful guidance in this thread though, so thank you.