The Cal-look Lounge

Well as the title says guys - I am looking for a set/pair/x2 ITALIAN NOS Weber 48 IDA's, Preferable BOXED - I know this is a bit of a long shot but I know there are a few sets still out there ;) I did see a pair at a swap meet in the UK a few years back but I was not in a position to buy them at the time :(

So let me know what you got guys PLEASE, I have CASH waiting for the RIGHT deal, feel free to email some pic's to either:

monki772003@yahoo.co.uk OR lee_cooksey@yahoo.co.uk OR just drop me a PM

talking about those one lee  ;) 1300£ a that time  :o

yep thats them  :(

Anyone know who brought them ???

nigel hurst!

might have to drop him a line :)

good pictures of an original serial numbered Weber 48IDA carburetor set.

These pictured are the original WEBER 48IDA carburetors and not the later mass produced Italian or Spanish versions. These were made to order once Carroll Shelby used them on both the small block Mustang GT 350s and the Cobra 427 S/Cs. Each carburetor was hand made (not mass produced) and for competition purposes. Easy to tell these originals apart since these originals do not have the triangular boss on the sides of each barrel that was later added to the mass produced Italian and Spanish models. Originally produced in 1964 for the Porsche 904, they were called the 46 IDA. Shelby had a production run done for the Cobra project then underway but opened up to 48mm hence the 48 IDA. BAP/GEON was the US Importer/Distributor for these at the time. Unlike the later Spanish sets, these do not have the third progression hole drilled-there was no need since these were designed to be used on V8 motors.

There was an NOS set for sale in Oregon on the samba about 2 years ago in the original boxes for $3000 USD. Another set used for $2500 USD on the samba about the same time.

You might inquire from the people on the WEBER 48 IDA page on Facebook.

I have a collection of sets of these but they are at Cobra enthusiast pricing. These are all restored. I also have the original 48IDA tools and the original production and parts/tuning sheets.

Used unrestored sets go for between $1500-$2000. Restored sets go for $3000.







 

Thanks for the history leasson- I have heard most of this before, not sure how much is true but its very interesting BUT it doesn't really get me any closer to a NOS/boxed set/pair  :-\

lee, check this link (http://www.flickr.com/photos/8423892@N04/sets/72157622406807891/) , if i remember those came frm david mayes collection and where for sale  , but don't remember if they were sale  ;) there's also the linkage and the manifolds

Listed on the Samba by the seller (a friend of mine) in Oregon.  No longer available as they were sold.

Good luck in your search.

As for the history, that has been fairly well documented by many.

I just recently acquired an unrestored serial numbered set (I have several sets) from Florida (used). I plan to restore these to NOS condition in 2012. Restoration will be to Pebble Beach standards and priced accordingly.  They are coveted by Mustang and Cobra enthusiasts.

These were made for the American market and designed for use on US V8s. Hence if you find a set, most likely they will be here in US (assuming that you are located here in the USA). Although Weber does not exist as an independent company (it was acquired by Magnetti Marelli years ago), it does exist as a division of FIAT Spa in Italy. I would write to them.

Parts numbers changed during the period 1964 through 1980. Current mass produced 48 IDAs use the same parts design but with different parts numbers. The current 48 IDAs, although made in Spain, do have the 3rd progression hole drilled. Probably a better deal for you if you have budget concerns.

Again, best of luck in your search.

monkiboy,

check this ebay ad. they are an example of what original 48 IDAs (a set) are like out there. These will have to be completely gone through by the buyer.

Ebay ad # 190595894500

though the auction is closed, they got a very good deal on these.

Their history is interesting as well since these were  mounted on a Porsche 912.

What people dont realize in the history of these carburetors is that 48 IDAs  were a strictly competition carburetor to be used on a big block Ford or Chevrolet engine. Initially the Ford GT 40 and early Cobra cars used huge twin Holley competition 4 barrels. Shelby switched to these once they were being made for him in 1965. These were never envisioned to be used on the street. Dean Lowrey then bolted a pair to a set of custom made manifolds and to the Inch Pincher and history was made.

My early catalogs for Weber products gave wholesale pricing for all types of Weber carburetors, parts, and Weber tools. The 48 IDAs, although listed, did not have a wholesale price but were listed as special order only. The customer paid the price quoted at the time of the order.

Is a good idea , if it is your plan , to use somehow very old carbs on a car/engine for what they are inteded to ? Mix air and fuel and make such a nice sound ;-) . I think it is not....
Do you have a special reason why you are looking for them ?
You just made me interested  ;D.
Greets , Carsten

Yep I am going to USE them if I ever find a pair - They will be fitted to my "old Skool" 2180cc SPG motor once its built  :)

I just think it the only way to GARRENTTE that they are PERFECT and don't have worn bearings, twisted sharfts, etc etc etc etc  ::) ;D

I purchased my first set in 1970. I have collected them over the years and have 7 sets of the original serial numbered Weber 48IDAs. All of mine have been purchased in the states.

In my WEBER collection, I have the build sheet for the 46IDA/46IDA2/48IDA/48IDA1/48IDA3/48IDA4. The last number was the production run for these classic carburetors. These are dated 1964.

I have the WEBER 48IDA tools used for tuning and rebuilding but not the specific tools for the 46IDA.
I have the WEBER books from 1971 as well as the parts/tunings books for the WEBER carburetors from  1971 1977 1982.

Both of these carburetors were made for competition only.
The 46IDA was made for the 1964 Porsche 904 Carrera GTS designed by Butzi Porsche and raced by the factory and its special customers.
The 48IDA-8v (for 8 cylinder) was made for the American competition market. They were made for the Ford 289 and 427 motors at the request of Carroll Shelby in 1963 for his Cobra program that he started in 1962.

Several years ago I traveled to the Monterey Historics as they were celebrating Jim Hall and his classic Chapparral race cars. Jim Hall and his son and his team brought all of the classic Chapparral race cars (INDY, TransAM, CanAM, and LeMans) up from Texas were they are in his Museum. He has never sold any of the team race cars and maintains them to this day. Several of the classic CanAM cars were equipped with big block experimental 427 engines. These were topped with original serial numbered 48IDA carburetors in a layout similiar to what Shelby did with the Cobra. It was a fun day when they took them out and raced them. Vic Elford drove the famous Chapparral fan suction car as well.

Widely sought after by big block Ford and Chevrolet fans of that era, you can still find manifolds for both engines designed for the 48IDA.

Should you be successful in your search, you must realize that a 45 year old+ carburetor will need to be completed taken apart and rebuilt. Very few specialize in that effort because of the complexities of taking these carburetors apart without damaging the parts. Hope you find success in your search and purchase   

Dude please give it a rest with all the "IDA History" we are ALL well aware of the history/useage/complexness (or lack of it!) and a NOS boxed carb WILL NOT need to be "rebuilt" Thats the point of buying a NOS item!

now please can we get back to VW's  ;)

You certainly are entitled to your opinions. If you believe that a 45+years old NOS carburetor (of which you have no history about how it was stored or even better, maintained) will not need to be rebuilt, that certainly is your right and reason. As I have said, good hunting in your search. Meanwhile I am looking at my 14 carburetors.

Great now please Re-read the title of this thread:

WANTED: x2 NOS Weber 48 IDA's Preferable BOXED! Price: u tell me £$£$£$£

Like I said above, good luck in your search for NOS early 48IDAs

This is a brilliant thread , informative ( about IDA's ) and entertaining ( watching monkeyboy getting all wound Up ha ha )

yeah yeah yeah  ;)

PM sent  :)

I have a NOS set and are boxed and are Perfect, and they fit and suit VW's far better than any American car.....

Lee, make me an offer and it will have to be £££££££ and not USD.... Oh an a lot, also will want cash up front.

PM sent/sending ;)

48- ida's
« Sent to: OC1967vw on: December 01, 2011, 23:43:29 PM »      

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hey   Sorry if I sounded a little "off" in my posts but we have been starting to get a few idiots here on the lounge and I sometimes get a little protective hehehehe it was me and a few Norwegian friends that really got this forum going - So once again Sorry  

Anyway back to the IDA's - I have been checking out some pic's and I never noticed that triangle boss before - Funny   They look so much cooler without it  

Now for the BIG question: What sort of money do these carbs go for? AND would you ever be willing to part with a pair/sell me a pair?

Check out some of the parts I already have for a 66 Cal Looker I am going to build VERY soon  
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,8725.0.html

Anyway I hope to hear from you soon
Take Care
Regards
Lee aka monkiboy


not a problem. You should realize that the original 48IDA carburetors (as in the David Mayes ones in the pictures above sold by an Oregon friend of mine) were sand castings made in Bologna.  Given consumer demand in later years, Fiat Spa/Weber switched from a sand casting manufacturing process to a stamped carburetor that was then finish machined to a high state. The stamped carburetor has a stronger body as the cast body may crack (very much like sand cast BRM Wheels-see Ultimate Factories-Ferrari for a video on their sand casting process which is not unlike what was done for the early 48IDAs). These were mass produced to meet market demand (much of it driven by VW enthusiasts over the years) and much of what is used by VW enthusiasts are these stamped second generation Italian and Spanish carburetors with the production run numbers stamped into the flange base as opposed to serial numbers. There are other noticeable differences between the original sand cast 48IDAs from the mass produced stamped 48IDAs.

As to cost I deal with the American market.  If you were to find NOS sand cast 48s in the box in Europe they most likely were brought in by an enthusiast/enthusiasts sometime in the last 45+ years from the US as these carburetors were not available in Europe and would be pricey no doubt. You must remember that the sand cast 48iDAs were strictly a competition only carburetor and not designed for long life or long term street use as other Weber carburetors. Given the current state of the European economy and exchange rates to the dollar, it is hard to say.  As to selling mine they are not for sale. Sorry. Mine are for my VW motors and some Cobra friends. Again, good luck in your search and on your project motor.

Cool Thanks again for the info - but whats the difference between "sand cast" and "sand CU"  ???

sorry-typo

VERY interesting - Thanks dude  :)

Although your understanding of 48IDA history and design may be in question, good luck in your proposed sale to Lee (monkiboy?)

Monkiboy, it seems as if you have found an NOS set in the box. All you need to do is verify that these carbs are what you are searching for your project motor. I have received emails for used sets for Euro 1400 as a bench mark without any restoration work done.

Yeah I got that email too  ;) All I am going to say about that set/pair is that the owner is always VERY optimistic with his prices  ;)

And you don't have to worry as the guys at the "Gasser Garage" know exactly what i am looking for  ;D

And by the way while I am here - Russell - are your pair EXACTLY the saame as the ones pictured above ??? ie the "Early type" ???

Although your understanding of 48IDA history and design may be in question, good luck in your proposed sale to Lee (monkiboy?)

[/quote]

My understanding of the 48IDA history is not in question, your understanding of the written word maybe..... what i said was that they suit and look better on a VW engine, that is a preference not a fact, i realise they weren't designed for the VW but they do look and sound fantastic on a 4 cylinder VW.

Russell

Lee

I will get some pictures for you to review, your offer while nice seems a little high and if they are what you want and i decided to not use them and sell them, you will have first refusal, let me get the pictures first, will post them on here so anyone interested can see.

Russell

Hey Russell, I sold you those carbs and linkage kit that I thought you would keep. If your looking to get rid of them or not happy with the sale I will buy them back. No problem!! You will never find a combination kit like that ever again. Please let me know.

Steve

You should have pm'd me first, the carbs and empi linkage you sold me are on old school motor in my black 57. I have 2 other sets one of which is going on the period motor for lightening bug before it goes on show at the NHRA. And the other well I might sell if it helps the right car look right, I also have numerous sets of used in fact a solex pict carb is more rare in my shop, almost as rare as a fake BRM. !!!  ;D

LOL

Russell

------> move on------>

My understanding of the 48IDA history is not in question, your understanding of the written word maybe..... what i said was that they suit and look better on a VW engine, that is a preference not a fact, i realise they weren't designed for the VW but they do look and sound fantastic on a 4 cylinder VW.

Russell
[/quote]


Whatever. You are certainly entitled to your "preference".

My position is based on fact.
Nothing is better than 4 48 IDAs on a 427/428 Ford Cobra or a 427 Chevy.
As Porsche is fond of saying, "Nothing even comes close".

OC1967vw "Orange County 1967 VW" ? Who are you ? You seem to be easily upset on here, this is calm place normally  ;D, lets see some pictures of your car please.

This is a VW with empasis on Cal Look and racing Forum, we would all be mad not to think that a VW is better with 48's than some american V8, also our VW cal look and race pioneers used to race and beat regulary on both the strip and street.

I am not arguing that 48's dont sound fantastic on a V8 they do, but they do sound better when behind...........

RELAX.

Russell

Again. Whatever. You are certainly entitled to your "preference" but I very much doubt that you can "relax". Try to do it IN LOWER CASE

My position is based on fact.
Nothing is better than 4 48 IDAs on a 427/428 Ford Cobra or a 427 Chevy. or for that matter a VW. Have owned and experienced both.

Again Paying strict attention to the Porsche philosophy-"Nothing even comes close".

Best of luck in your sale to Lee/Monkiboy

So, anyone fancy a nice period pair of matched  46 IDAs instead of those dreadfully common, ubiquitous 48s?  Might have a pair up for grabs...  8)

Hey Lee, I also have a lovely pair of 48s that have been stripped, ultrasonically cleaned and assembled with great care. Not nos I know, but very good condition. They are second generation, Bologna, Italy carbs. Very sweet ... Might be an alternative if you get stuck.

Thanks for the offers matt - I miught well be in touch  ;)

46IDAs should be marked 46IDA2 or 46IDA3. Made for the 904GTS with the type 587 Carrera 4 cylinder motor for the Porsche factory. Strictly competition.

Factory had planned to use the new 911 6 cylinder motor in the 904 but scotched the plan and reverted to the Carrera 587 motor. The factory made a special production run of the 901 6 cylinder motor in magnesium (as opposed to production aluminum case) for the 906 (the 901/20) which was topped by a special run of 46IDA carburetors in a 3 barrel version for competition use by the factory race team.  This set the stage for the development of the production 46IDA3C carburetor (not competition) for the 911 in 1965.

Five years back I sold a pair of Nos boxed 46ida3c carbs. Big mistake! Especially for the money I sold them for... Oh well, you live and learn. They were also used on the 911 R ;)

What's an excellent, unrestored pair of 46 IDA3  (2 barrel) worth these days?

Most likely I would recommend any of the Porsche Vintage blog sites which also have buy/sell sections.
Good luck

[attachment=1]

Now this is funny  :D

Just look at my member numer dude  ;) (cough cough 65) I just think I did a lot of "spreading the word" Thats all  :)

Anyway back to the topic in hand - Russell are yours the "Early" or Later mass produced type???

ie do they have those little triangle bosses mention earlier in this thread  ;) :)

Some photos of my spare 48 IDA's   ;D

Russell, looking at that pic, I can only presume you need another 6-7 cars to complete your collection. :)

Lee how do you know your member number, mine doesn't show up.

Lids you are number 352, one after me  ;D

I don't know mine either ?... Ron can you help

342 Russell  ;)

And as for those pictures - That is just PORN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll take one pair (boxed) Please  ;) :)

I also noticed the pair of "early type" in BLACK  :o :)

ok i beat you  guys ,i"m number 7  ;D ;D ;D

yeah I saw that dude  ::)

so back to the IDA's - As I said before, I'll take one pair (boxed)  please Russell   ;) :)

I'm no expert here , but what exactly is a "stamped" 48IDA.?  I'm assuming you mean stamped like a coin in a press, or do you mean "stamped out by the thousands" ?.

Having worked around high pressure die casting machines, you've piqued my interest  ;)

KP,
you have it right-just like a quarter-bodies were just stamped out (high pressure die) to meet the increased demand. Couild not have met that demand if they had manufactured the carbs as they did the original ones that are serial numbered-these were hand made by Weber to order.

MB

so did you purchase your carburatori due for your project?

regards in the new year

Not yet  ;) :)

Not nos, but very nice carbs even if I do say so myself... ahem  ;)

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17677.0.html

nice looking set of later production 48IDAs. MB, these look like a good deal for your project.

Can you post pics of both types showing the differences?

Are we right in saying that the early italian idas ( ie the cast bodies) were only produced until the late 60's if so then surely it follows that the later mass produced carbs and cheaper carbs are more suitable ie period correct for the cal look enthusiast looking to put together a mid 70's period correct motor and we therefore don't need to be so worried about the finer nuances of the earlier carbs.

interesting as the history is i find it all a bit pointless arguing over the merits of early nos carbs that really belong on more exotic tin than the humble beetle when most of us had a long wait to be able to afford even a spanish set of ida carbs  

just my 2 cents  :-X

  

I believe in functional operability and longevity. There is no functional difference between the early hand made and later mass produced 48IDAs. Period correctness is irrelevant to me since function and operability are primary. Of benefit with the later version is durability since the alloy is much stronger and the manufacturing process better. As to the concept of a "period-correct motor", it is an concept of no interest to me because motors constructed today are much better than they were 40 years ago.

Can you post pics of both types showing the differences?

To be honest guys I REALLY DON'T CARE! I have NEVER asked for a set of Early "sand cast" OR "stamped" carbs........

All I have asked for is: x2 NOS Weber 48 IDA's Preferable BOXED!  :) :)

I just want it to be as thought I went into a shop in 1973/4 and brought a pair of BRAND NEW 48ida weber's - Anyone help ???

I thought you had a pair lined up to buy from the guy who posted the carb pictures later in this thread?

na russ is keeping his boxed pair  :'(

MB
good luck in your search

correction: russ is using his boxed pair  ;D


the guy who posted is me Russell..... who are you ? Mr XXXX is your car BLUE ?

Is your car bigger than a bread box?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-Weber-IDA-48-Italian-Carbs-Cobra-FIA-Vintage-Racing-/110841043258?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19cea4193a&vxp=mtr

Beware:  Those are not new.  You can clearly see the wear on the acc pump cam and roller.

You gotta love the description: "Like NOS"  ::) ::) ::)

They either ARE or they ARE NOT - PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;) :)

Lotus white

So back to the topic - Has ANYONE got  x2 NOS Weber 48 IDA's Preferable BOXED! PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :)

Just purchased four nos serial numbered early sand cast IDAs-purchased 40 years ago and sat unused in a closet.
just sold for a Cobra project . Aside from seal replacement and new leather washers, they were an absolute find.

Since you are ready to purchase, you might reconnect with your contacts to see if they are willing to sell now. Sounds like you have a good chance with them.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1247567

?

Not Italian.

Agreed... anyone who pays $1000 for those will be disappointed.

These are the later mass produced die stamped bodies. These are much stronger bodies (a stronger alloy) compared to the early sand cast hand made to order bodies.
As to price, thats up to the marketplace.
My understanding is that these are no longer being produced by the Weber division of Fiat.

 You got mail  ;)

So do you Art  ;)