'68-'69 Taillights Amber tops with no reverse lights

[Rick Meredith]

Ted and I were have a conversation in the "Wanted" section and we thought we'd move it here to get some information.

Normally what we in US would call "European" lenses for '68-'69 would have both amber tops and reverse lights.

We've seen taillights for '68-'69 T1 that had amber signals but they were all red below that... no reverse lights while still the same shape as to others. We've only seen them in very small numbers. We were wondering what the reason for the difference would be? Maybe for certain countries or certain models?

[DKK Ted]

Hi Rick, you beat me by secounds, you put it alot better than I did though. But yes, some history on these tail lights.

Ted

[DKK Ted]

The len's in question.....

[Jason Foster]

  Rick,    Call me.

[Nico86]

These tail lights come from most european models.

If I remember well :

From 68 to 71 : beetles came as 1300 and 1500 models with amber top + red lights, only the 1300L and 1500L (L=Luxe) had the reverse light.

From 71 (1302) to 73 (1303) : they all came with reverse light.

Standard models (1200) came with pre-68 rear fenders and bumpers, and with pre-68 small rear lights.
I guess that US models came with reverse light everytime, along with the small reflectors on the side of the light brackets.

I will check this in my books.

[Nico86]

Mines (1300 model)

[Nico86]

I've checked in some books :  in Europe reverse lights were optionnal on 1300, 1500, Convertible and 1302 from 68 to 72. They were included on the 1300L, 1500L, Convertible"L" and 1302L (and on special edition models : Marathon Bug, etc...).

[Shubee2 (DSK)]

I had them on my 69 back in the mid 70's got them from P.I. Automotive in Anaheim Ca. they use to have all the european taillights for everything  all made by Hella I spliced the back up light wire to come on as and extra brake light

[Rick Meredith]

Good info! And I guess the reason why we had so many more of the 3 color ones is that it was easier with the reverse lights already in place,

[Nico86]

I spliced the back up light wire to come on as and extra brake light

Good idea ! I thought about trying to put fog lights, as some historic rally/regularity cars have to have one.

I'd have to check, but I don't remember if the bulb-holder is shorter without the third bulb, or if it although has the reverse light bulb location.

[Rennsurfer]

I guess that US models came with reverse light everytime, along with the small reflectors on the side of the light brackets.

No, Nico, not until 1970 model year did that happen on Type 1 cars. But you're right about the deluxe equipped cars that were destined for the States, though.

I've always wanted to build a late Looker with the red/amber lenses, then run a single upside down Hella reverse light under the bumper on the driver (left) side. Don Metz's 'vert has that and it looks GREAT. 

[DKK Ted]

Say Mark, you don't happen to have any pics of Don's car of the back? He still has that one right? It's his other one he sold.

Ted

[Rick Meredith]

I guess that US models came with reverse light everytime, along with the small reflectors on the side of the light brackets.

No, Nico, not until 1970 model year did that happen on Type 1 cars. But you're right about the deluxe equipped cars that were destined for the States, though.

I've always wanted to build a late Looker with the red/amber lenses, then run a single upside down Hella reverse light under the bumper on the driver (left) side. Don Metz's 'vert has that and it looks GREAT. 

Were the reflectors in the sides of the lens on '68-'69s perhaps? I'm pretty sure that front side running lights and rear side reflectors were required after 1967. That's why Ghia and T2 got those round reflectors. Unless maybe VWOA convinced the DOT that enough light was emitted from the side of the lit taillights.

[Rennsurfer]

Say Mark, you don't happen to have any pics of Don's car of the back? He still has that one right? It's his other one he sold.

Good question, Ted. I'll have to look around my photo folders for that one. Don't if I've ever shot the back of that car. Yes, he still owns the 'vert.

Were the reflectors in the sides of the lens on '68-'69s perhaps? I'm pretty sure that front side running lights and rear side reflectors were required after 1967. That's why Ghia and T2 got those round reflectors. Unless maybe VWOA convinced the DOT that enough light was emitted from the side of the lit taillights.

There could be reflectors on the lenses, Rick. In fact, there has to be or like you said, V.W.O.A. must have convinced D.O.T. otherwise. The reflectors ended up on the housings in 1970, though... I do remember that much.

[tuna]

The '68-'69 in the US did not have a reflector on the housing, that was added in 1970. The Hella '68-'69 lenses I have seen did have a reflector on the inside. Both of my cars have the '68-'69 taillights ('69 Bug and '70 EMPI Imp), so I have a lot of experience with this set up. 

[Jason Foster]

  Not sure whose shot this is I found it in my mix.  It's not the vert but it is of Don Metz origin........

[Jason Foster]

  Also found this.

   

[DKK Ted]

Jason, Mark, found a couple of Dons car.......

[Nico86]

Yep Mark you remember well !

First pic is from a 1969 brochure for the US, and second pic is from a 1970 brochure : look how the reflectors and hood grills were added to match the year model.

1969


1970







Medium front turn signals (same as euro models) 1968





Large front turn signals 1970

[Nico86]

Were the reflectors in the sides of the lens on '68-'69s perhaps? I'm pretty sure that front side running lights and rear side reflectors were required after 1967. That's why Ghia and T2 got those round reflectors. Unless maybe VWOA convinced the DOT that enough light was emitted from the side of the lit taillights.

There could be reflectors on the lenses, Rick. In fact, there has to be or like you said, V.W.O.A. must have convinced D.O.T. otherwise. The reflectors ended up on the housings in 1970, though... I do remember that much.

About Type 2 there are US 1968 brochures without reflectors, and US 1968 brochures with reflectors. Maybe it appears during the year model, or maybe the first borchure were made with pics of european models.
Type 2 probably had reflectors before Bug/Ghia/Type3 because they were considered as utilitary vehicles ??

They were round in 68 and 69, then square.

1968


1968 too


1970

[Nico86]

A very interesting document that VW started to made in 63/64 was the "What year is it ?" brochure showing main differences between year models.

Almost all are on The Samba : http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/72whatyearisit.php

[Rennsurfer]

Good stuff, Nico. Thanks for sharing.

[Rick Meredith]

About Type 2 there are US 1968 brochures without reflectors, and US 1968 brochures with reflectors. Maybe it appears during the year model, or maybe the first borchure were made with pics of european models.
Type 2 probably had reflectors before Bug/Ghia/Type3 because they were considered as utilitary vehicles ??

They were round in 68 and 69, then square.

1968


1968 too


1970

The reflectors were required for the '68 model year. The pics you have that show the T2s without them were probably from European sources even if they were used in American brochures.

I've never seen a T2 with the square reflectors in that picture.

[Nico86]

[roland]

The reflectors were required for the '68 model year. The pics you have that show the T2s without them were probably from European sources even if they were used in American brochures.

I've never seen a T2 with the square reflectors in that picture.

I think they were drawn on the photos because these are still 69' models busses. the real ones in 70' look nothing like that..

[Rick Meredith]

The reflectors were required for the '68 model year. The pics you have that show the T2s without them were probably from European sources even if they were used in American brochures.

I've never seen a T2 with the square reflectors in that picture.

I think they were drawn on the photos because these are still 69' models busses. the real ones in 70' look nothing like that..

I think you're right

[vwcab]

  Also found this.

   

off topic,are that 16" fuchs?

[bugnut68]

The '68-'69 in the US did not have a reflector on the housing, that was added in 1970. The Hella '68-'69 lenses I have seen did have a reflector on the inside. Both of my cars have the '68-'69 taillights ('69 Bug and '70 EMPI Imp), so I have a lot of experience with this set up. 

That's what's on my '70... I plan on doing away with the side reflector whenever I paint the car, though, as I never have cared for the side DOT reflectors.  And will also be going with euro taillight lenses!

[Rennsurfer]

 

off topic,are that 16" fuchs?

Yes, they are. When Don first built the car... I thought it was the best looking Cal Look 'vert ever made. That was back in the early '80s. Back then, it had 15" Porsche alloys and looked much better. But it's his car.

[Brew 66]

So, does anyone know if you can currently get these taillights in the U.S.?