The Cal-look Lounge

Hi,

which 1.4 rockers could you recomend? I need to buy some to act with an Fk10 and wanted to hear some opinions.I am thinking about those:

Pauter:
I think that is the top gun. Light, reliable, low friction cause of the roller contact and a true 1.4 ratio. BUT expensive.(400$)

(http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/t1rockr2.jpg)

Scat forged:
Don`t know much about those.True ratio? Half of the Pauter price...(234$)

(http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/1577.jpg)

AJ Sims/Low budget:
The advertisment text reads very nice. But I didn`t heared or read anything about those so far...They look close to the Scat forged and have a very good price (139$)

(http://lowbugget.com/PIC_0977_292x219.JPG)

Those are out of view:

Empi/Scat cheap:
I saw and hearded of failed adjusting screws. True ratio is not really 1.4. Price is very low. But anyhow quality costs...(115$)

(http://www.vwparts.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/hiliftrockerarmkit.jpg)

Auto-craft:
The needle bearing one`s often fail, that`s what I read...(...$)

Any other one`s to think about?

Thank you for your opinions and time!

Cheers,
Felix

I've run Scat's since 1991 (same set) until 2007 (I have their 1.25 on my motor now). I would always suggest them. I don't like their lash caps though. I use Bugpack racing, CB's, or when you can get them, Bergs.

I have a set of Bugpack 1.4 for Sheep's motor, which set up nicely. I have not run these before, but did set up geometry. So far ok.

I ran Autocraft pro 1.25's (black ones) skuffer tip (not roller tip) on the old shop drag motor. They're nice.

I have some Bugpack ones on a FK-8. No problems. (look the same as those from lowbugget)

I believe the rockers from CB are also very good!

If you can find Bergs 1.4, those are very nice. A.J.'s are the chinese ones, BUT, what I have done is take them over to Berg and have them switched over to there hardware, now they become very good rockers assy. The rocker themselves are very good, just the shafts are softer. But in the process, Berg use's there rocker stands also. I have been using the Chinese 1.25's with all the Berg hardware and have no problem's. Berg has to the upgrade cause they hone the rockers a little to fit there shafts. Berg has shafts and all hardware but no more rockers. Thats been like that for awhile now. Scats are nice too, but in the past there ratio's were off. Hope this helps. Good luck!

Thee Auto-Crafts are nice, just don't set them up loose, thats when they fail by being loose, I've use those before long time ago, and mind failed, and I worked at Auto-Craft, when they set-up theirs on their motors, was a little tighter, not loose and not tight, it worked. But I learned the hard way. I should of asked. Never ran CB's or Bugpack, can't help you with those.

scat rockers now have 3/8" thread cup adjuster screws, so no more breaking them.

I've never broken a Scat adjuster in 18 years.

This is a very simple answer to the question---


Look into your wallet --- see all that money in there -- OK, Now how much of it do you want to spend?????? -- Now you take that amount and you match it up to amounts next to the above rockers and you get them.

All the rockers are good -- when used within their design -- If you don't want to spend much, AJ's work really well -- as long as you don't expect them to do 10,000 rpm for hours on end.

When I bought -- I looked in my wallet -- then I looked at my 2919 and thought of all the money tied up in it -- then I looked deeper into my wallet -- then I cried -- then I bought a set of Pauter's

do they fit harold ?
are they over on the ratio too ??

what kind of heads do you have, ian?

What heads are you using? with vw casting they will come out around 1.4 with something like a comp eliminator they come out bigger as the mounting blocks in the head are moved,on my JPM heads the 1.5 pauters came out 1.68,old Scats 1.59,new scats 1.48.

Personally i like the scat ones,I set up some yesterday on a VW casting head 2332 and they were only 0.006 thou out on the advertised lift,
the ones AJ sells are good but I have seen a couple of adjusters fail.
I dont like the autocrafts at all,the latest set I had came with several problems including some of the needle bearings damaged when installed at origin,to fix them would have ended up costing more than pauters

cheers richie,uk  

I ran the Berg rockers for 7 years. No issues seen even at high rpms (8k+), I assume they will last forever even under toughest conditions. Yes, they do have their price, but it is definitely a long-term investment.

Changed to Pauter rockers a year ago, I cannot make an unambiguous judgement yet which one of the two I like more. Are there any long-term research results available on which one of the two concepts (needle bearing or bushing) has proven to be superior?

Here are my angle ports as of a couple of days ago porting has been done but that is it -- So you can see that we haven't got to point of installing the rockers yet -- Have redone the shims on the shafts to center the rockers further out to be over the exhaust but that is  as far as we have gotten

I have CB 1.4s and they set up petty much dead on at 1.4:1. My FK-45 lifted .566" at the valve on CB 044s and .561 was the advertised lift.

I vote for the CB  version too. Geometry is better on a VW casting compared to most others.
Dont like Pauter & Autorcraft for the street. Too high failiure rate. In a race situation where the last pony counts, it another matter.
T

hey guys
street eliminators with long valves ..
i have info from don about changing the arms and shafts over to get the right fit on the valves , and a couple of other mods
but thats all i can tell you , as all my data is in the stoopid hp tablet thats broken again !!  ::)
iirc , i had to buy 1.4 and 1.5 and mix the parts to make fit ???

I thought u were gonna bring that thing up to my laptop dude and have him take a hammer to it for u

its really broke , a hammering would probobly be an improvement !!!
needs a new motherboard and apparently the only place that can do a repair is in santa clara  ::)

Hi all,

thank`s everyone for all those good opinions and experiences!
Rockers will go on 044 heads. Really true that the head makes a difference! I have never thought of that differnce that the tolerance of the rockerscrewing to valve makes...

I have looked in my wallet, but have no real cause (as I won`t go over 7500-8000rpm) to spend as twice as I get when I buy Scat`s or CB`s. So I will go with those and spend the other money on good valve springs (berg?) an titanium retainers  ;)

I think that some adjusting screw failures are a consequnce of a non correct set rocker geometry (When the screws extends to much at the inside of the rocker)

@Thorben: Failed pauter`s? What fails on them, never heared of...

Greetz!

I have the Scat ones. Works great for me at least.

Add to this that the ratio changes with every turn of the of adjusters...

I wish that was always true,then maybe I could have used the berg rockers with fk48 I was trying for soemone last week that came out at .700thou lift,we tried everything to get it to a more sensible lift but the least we could get was .691thou,still way to much for the heads being used,I didnt see more than .004thou variation with the adjuster screws


Felix you made a good choice,but look for other valve springs,CB are selling some really good ones right now for your aplication

cheers richie,uk

Torben -- I've been asking around and I've haven't found anybody with a Pauter failure or even heard of a Pauter Failure  --  Who do you know????

bring that thing up here and we'll jack the hard drive up and run a new computer underneath it  -should run OK after that

As long as the distance from tip of the adjuster to the center of the axle changes (longer or shorter) the ratio is changing, that's just geometry...  but as you point out it might be minute  :-\

splash oiling , ask glenn ;)

Just went through a major rocker/geometry check experiment on my 2276. I run stock, welded castings by Fumio. Checked Berg 1.4s & 1.45s, and Pauter 1.4s and 1.5s. The Berg rockers measured out to 1.55:1 and 1.59:1 respectively. I only recorded the numbers for the Pauter 1.4s which measured out at 1.44:1. All of them demanded the same length pushrod for proper geometry within .010" ... interesting.
Ended up running the Berg 1.45s, which were on the motor to begin with ... lots of work for nothing? :-\ ... not so, as now I know!
By the way, the Pauters had the best geometry at the valve tip, for the record.

As for failures, I've not experienced any. Although, I've heard from reliable sources that the potential problem is created by over the top spring pressures when using the Pauter rocker and reveils itself in shaft failure/breakage.

Hey Fiat dude. sorry I havent been around for a while.
Over here 2 sets of Pauters have broken out of maybe 3-4 sets in the country. (This WAS the old version) I am not aware if they have changed the design before they released the new series though. Like I said, in a race application I would use them anyway, as there the last pony counts.
The Autocrafts wear the needle bearings in about 1 season when used on the street. And it is a PITA to replace them. That is why I began to use the CB´s instead. Sofar so good. - Havent seen any failiures yet with those. Maybe others can tell a different story. If so I would like to hear it.

with the empi ones,is it just the adjuster screw cup  ends that are bad or is there more wrong with them.
if i change the cup ends with an other brand are they then more relaible?

henk!!!

Yes, I believe Berg still have there's. I had never had a problem with the Berg adjusters.

Ted

up from the grave...to give some feedback

I buyed the CB rockers as mentoined before which are VERY RAW at delivering state which could be optimised by 2step polishing.
I set up the rockers an measured/calculated a ratio of 1,46 at my 044`s CB heads. So a bit more than it should be, but that may be a head problem and not a rocker problem.
Havent measured the rocker alone.
Anyhow I had 2 cam`s in the game for the 2.2l. FK10 & FK87. The FK87 wouldn`t fit as it had not enought coil bind secure distance- It was 1,3-1,4mm with zero play and: CB double springs; manley valves; cb crmo retainers.

the scat rockers now have cup adjusting screws that have a 3/8" thread for max strength
plus they have  bronze bushings in the rockers where they ride on the shafts,
shafts are .765" diamater instead of the .686" of the rockers wtih the needle bearings

Would the autocraft needle beering rockers last longer when lubed by oil squirters?

Felix. You could/can instal CB 0,650" springs and race retainers. Then you´ll have sufficient lift before coil bind.

Ruffbiker, most likely not, as there are plenty of oil in the covers when you drive.

Ron, personally I hate the fact that you have changed to 3/8" That leaves very few options for adjusters. - Unless one goes V8 or something. I have not explored that though.
T

Hi Torben,
yes that would have been an option thank`s for info.
As I have all the things laying around (and matched valves to the heads) I now went down the FK10 route that gives enough coil bind secure distance.

I find it very interesting that the cheap 33$ double CB valvesprings I got look 99% simmilar (depending on the look of the material and finish/more brown) to the expensive 650 one`s.
In the catalouge they look totally different (black)
Maybe same material/treatment as the 650 at the moment?

(http://www.cbperformance.com/catalogimages/1493.jpg)
(http://www.cbperformance.com/catalogimages/1491.jpg)

I like mine better

K800`s?

yes sir

I've run two sets of rockers on my car since 1990, the majority of the years with 1.4's, both sets were Scat. Absolutely trouble free. The 1.4's have over 70,000 miles on them.