The Cal-look Lounge

The time has come to rebuild the top end of the motor in my GTV, I've got all the major hard parts I need except the heads. The plan is to do everything I can to improve performance without splitting the case, using as many original EMPI parts as I can, and of course keeping it naturally aspirated. Here's what I've got thus far:

Slip in forged 88's (I know!)
EMPI 1.4:1 rockers
Berg HD single springs
Aluminium Kennedy stage 1 Pressure Plate (will get crank & flywheel 8 doweled, as well)
Solex 40 P11's on EMPI manifolds
And lots of other bits...

I want a pair of stock valve ported heads that will perform well on my motor. Of course I'd like a set of Jeff D's or Steve Tims heads (or?), but I've tried to contact both of those guys with no response... Guess they don't mess around with the little stuff, and I can't blame them! So who out there would you reccomend? I want to tear into it this winter, have it ready by next spring... Thanks!

How you going to 8 dowell the crank with out splitting the case?  just do it properly and freshen the complete engine up so it can take the extra abuse you will give it ;)

As for the heads,why not do them yourself? with chris doing the machine work I am sure you could do a good standard valve set yourself?


cheers richie,uk

Zach try some brothers heads they work fine on mine

call Jeff Denham

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,10603.0.html

Yeah, bore is different, but I bet you could work around that. 

There is a fixture to 8 dowel the crank on an assembled engine. I do plan on building a complete, big, expensive engine in the future, but for now I want to play around with the original, it will be fun!. The plan is to freshen up this one so it lasts me long enough to swap in a 5 speed, and then the big motor. Then I'll put this one on the shelf.
I thought about doing the heads myself... But then I decided that I really want this little motor to go as well as it can, and for that I want an experienced pair of hands reworking the most important part of the engine ;)

I've been less than thrilled with the Brother's work I have seen... :-\


Got a number?


Bored for 94s', cut for duals, comes with manifolds I don't need... close, but no thanks ;)

Zach, the heads on my current 1776 came from Competition Engineering there in Arizona... bought them about six years ago or so from Rick Mortensen, and they've run great!  Ported/polished, stock vavles, single HD springs, semi hemi cut (some people love 'em, others hate 'em, but my engine has been great thus far!)... I was very impressed with the heads when I first saw them, before installing them on my engine.  Just my .02.

what you dident get my return PM. i qouited a price to you. i think the way this thread should go is WHO DOES P+P STOCK VALVE HEADS FOR (CHEAP). becase when i shot you the price you obivisle wernt sitting down at the time. i will always return peoples pm or email. its actually a bargin stock valve heads are actualy sometimes more difficult becase of the small port and seats the way i do them anyway.sorry i cant lower the price to be cheaper than the CNC market it just isnt going to happen. sorry if im coming off as a dick. but any more when i qoute a price to some one now the first thing that i have to say is i cant compete with YOU KNOW WHO. usaly they dont care they pay the price and there done. just my two bits . UD .   

Like the ole saying, Buy the best and you only have to cry one time!

Jeff, I never got your reply! I have no problem paying good money for good heads. I'm not looking for CHEAP heads, if that's what I wanted I would just do them myself. I want the proper heads (not one size fits all CNC) that will get the most out of my motor. I have heard from more than one head builder that small heads are more difficult, so no surprise there. Please reply again, go straight to my email this time sacs67@yahoo.com

Try clyde berg, The "berg"stock port and polish has been around since .... stock..?? Where do you think "buy the best and cry once" got handed down to/from?...bill

email sent zach. UD .

Steve and Greg Tims are maybe slow on the email. Call them, I would go with their Stage 1. I waited for few months queue but I´m still very happy.

I was fortunate to find an old Berg motor at Irwindale two years ago. I changed out the flywheel and the case but the heads are originals ported to perfection. Acording to the seller they were done by Clyde in the late eighties. They are semi hemi cut so the compression is low. I can see how expensive a porting jobb like this would be because of the small valves and keeping the inlet to the head almost standard. I know how much time it took me to do single port heads for Formula Vee with even smaller intake valves. I hope you will find someone who can do it because they are a joy to drive with lots of power down low. Took my 1680 all over Europe last summer and a trip to Finland in the fall. All together 5000km in 4 months.

Zach, I'm with Richie on this one. If your dropping the engine you should just check out the bottom end while your there. Your oil pressure wasn't that great before you upgraded the oil pump, so you probably need an align bore/bearings. You could also calm down that oil dripping problem. I know your worried about it snowballing but why go to the trouble of fancy small valved heads on an untouched bandaided bottom end? It's kind of like polishing a proverbial turd don't you think?

I got to agree, do it right the first time and you wont have to do it a second time.

--louis

i didn't take my bottom end apart 2 years ago and the total sum of worn parts, more stress and the like blew it for me  ;)

Just my opinion - you don't have to split the bottom end. You can just whack a load of parts together and it'll work.
BUT, if you are spending $$$ on heads, then you may as well do the rest of the motor too, even if it's just whipped apart to change seals and bearings. My dad and I ported a set of stock heads, matched them to the manifolds on my little 1584 and it ran great, but if I had spent money on new heads I'd have split the bottom end and done it properly. If you want to leave the case alone, I don't really see the point of buying new heads. :)

If I tear the motor completely down I wont be driving my car for a year. When I build the big motor I will take my time on it and do it right. Having this motor in the car will allow me time to do that, while still enjoying it. I want to get all of the parts together, rebuild the top end in a weekend or two, and be back on the road. Besides, I've always wondered what kind of performance can be attained from the stock bottom end, and this will answer that for me ;) I know it seems like a waste of time and money (part of me doesn't disagree!), but I think it will be fun, and cool... Isn't that what it's all about? So to sum it up, I'M DOING IT!

More talk about heads... ;)

Disagree/ Get your shit together it would take a month. Remember winter here last for more than a couple weekends. And besides you could throw in a Empi Cam, then you can use your spin on oil pump. Get the crank/Flywheel 8 Dowelled properly, flywheel lightend.

Do you mean 120,000 miles stock? I think most of us know your not going to obtain the most performance with that kind of bottom end.
Yeah It does seem like a waste, don't you want to take this thing to CA in the future? I just don't See much fun in wondering how long your rod bearings are going to last.

OK I'm done ;)

Have we met? Seriously, you think I can build a motor in a month? :D

So, I'll swap out rod bearings. I can do that with case intact.
Stay focused... HEADS

Do The Job Right Do A Complete  if you just do the top end with the added better Compression,extra Lift and Port Work,dual carbs, Plus revving it to a Higher RPM The Bottom End Is Going to Let Go Believe Me I have seen Plenty in My Time Plus if you split the case you can slip in a cam  all its going to cost you is  a linebore main,rod and cam bearings,a set of rebuilt rods and polish the crank. that is like doing an interior job and not rebuilding the seats just covering them if you do just the top end you are asking for trouble just my 2 cents.

Not to piss anybody off here, but why would it take a year to rebuild what is basicly a stock motor. That's about a 2 1/2 hour job, 5 hours if you triple check everything twice. Pull the motor, split it, and do it right

If I tear into in any further, the project will snowball out of fucking control. My problem is that I can't do anything stock, simple. And I'm stubborn ;D Besides, I don't have the extra cash that would require, and I don't want the car off the road for longer than it needs to be. The bottom end is solid. It burns a bit of oil, the pushrod tubes leak a bit, a top end refresh will will give it a new lease on life. I just want it to last until I build a 5 speed, and the big, proper motor. If I get 20k more miles, I will be THRILLED.

Never have and never will understand peoples fear of splitting the case. Before I went on this summers trip i decided two days before leaving that I didn´t like the sound of the straight cut cam gear. I tore the whole thing down changed the rod bearings,changed the cam gear and put the motor back together again. It was in the car the night before leaving and I enjoyed the cam gear the whole way to Hessich Oldendorf. These motors are not rocket science,it just take common sense and a bit of feeling to get them together. Not splitting the case is like putting a roof on a fallen down house.

I'll clairify one more time... I'm not afraid of splitting the case. I've built enough motors to know what's inside. The inevitable snowball effect and the resulting downtime is what I'd rather do without. If it blows, it blows. At least I'll know, and have fun in the process :)

If you Cant do it Right Why Do It at all? it still Run Leave it Alone Why Spend Money to do a Job Half Ass And Then Put it on the Shelf? You Know as we all Do There is only One Right way and thousands of Wrong Way's To Do It. If it was Me Put a set of 87's on it rebuild the stock heads new push rod tubes and seals and leave it alone Save the Rockers and other stuff for a real Motor Start Saving you Money, Speed Cost Money $$ how fast can you afford to go???? I would say with a 2.0 or Bigger motor done right and a five speed  you are looking at close to $10,000  you need to figure what you can afford to Spend and Build the Best for the Money you have Just my 2 Cents  I hate to see Money thrown away on building a grenade motor its only a matter of time before she Blows :o :o ;D ;D

I think he should go ALL OUT bolt on!
88 slip-ons bored to 89.
AT LEAST some 1.4 if not 1.5, even better some Berg 1.54:1 rockers (those measure out at almost 1.7! ... I have some, I may donate for the cause).
Self ported (hogged out!) stock valve heads with chevy springs and the 40p11s (maybe they should be bored to 44s?).
Merged 1 3/8ths exhaust with J pipes.

It'll probably last forever!

Don't forget the "Engine Restore" in the oil to keep the oil burning to a MINIMUM.

 ;D ;D ;D ;D :o ;D ;D

Zach if you dont have the budget for it all now why not freshen up the bottom end now then add the goodies later? do it this way and I reckon you will manage to find the extra to do it all ;)

cheers richie,uk

Seriously though Zach ...

I pulled the heads from a recent project of mine to find a damaged cylinder causing my 'oil consumption' problem.
After pulling the cylinders and pistons (90.5s), I was able to see the damage on the cam & lifters.

Kind of a downer, but turned the frown upside down by splitting the case, putting in the cam I really wanted anyway (!!!), took the time to port the heads myself as per guru directives, got a good valve job done on them, and it runs like a top!
The whole project only took 2 months, working after hours (of course) and now I'm very happy.

Got it all done right the first time and no looking back or dreading having to do it all over again.

I wish you good luck with your project whatever direction you choose.
TexasTom

hey look another one with the same thing to say (but different)

sorry Zach, but check the bottom end as well. there is some many 'free' horsepower to be gained without buying other parts.
i know what you mean and i am stubborn as well, but it doesn't seem to be woth it in the (for me anyway...)

Let's Beat Up On Zach Thread :)

So there is a greasy short block behind the shop. It turns over, rods don't feel too loose. You can hose it off, and bolt your nice shiny parts to it & BAMM... you got the same end product and GTV will have hardly no down time. WIN WIN...Right???