The Cal-look Lounge

Hi all you type 3 fans out there,


as big (or bigger) type 3 engines are rather uncommon I wanted to ask how you modified yours to keep things (especially the fan) together and what your specs are. And how did you solve problems for things not available of the shelf? Just post all your experience here - I think it would be of great help for those who are in the process of building a big cc type 3 motor.

My plan is as follows: 82x94, CB 044 CNC oval port, 42x37,5, FK10, 1,4 rockers, IDA. The header and muffler was custom made by A1, 1 3/4 in (44 mm), mild steal, black ceramic coated with a polished stainless steal muffler and black ceramic coated tail pipe. It also has a thread for the lambda sensor and a V-band. Quality is very good and it's the only way to have a header as big as 1 3/4 in. The biggest of the shelf is the 1 5/8 (42 mm) from Kymco.

Another problem is the drilling for the full flow system, especially when you have a IRS car because of the stock torque bar. Instead of drilling a hole at the left side of the case and using a fitting that interferes with the torque bar and the fan house I used the CSP full flow adapter that eliminates the rear oil pressure control piston. That way you don't have to cut the torque bar and/or the fan house.

Engine is still not running, so I don't have any experience with how it runs and if the welded and balanced fan will hold together or not. You can read some more opinions on that toppic here: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,10644.30.html

Cheers,

Georg

Interesting topic! I currently have a mild 1835cc in my Type 34 Ghia, no idea about its ingredients, but it produces somewhere around 105 hp. Fun to drive, for sure, but sometimes I miss some low end grunt. So the next logical step would be a 2110 or 2276 with a lot of torque and no need for high revs. Well, I'm about to drop that idea having faced the fact that my Ghia isn't a race car and never will be. Respectively I don't want to do the modifications necessary for that transformation as I like my car and its characteristics the way it is. But maybe this thread's gonna give me some inspiration to continue the path of horsepower.  :)

turbo thomas makes a 1 3/4 type3 header. not sure if you can have the lambda sensor fitting, but i think it can be ordered. it is stainless steel and not beautifully black like yours howerver.

this should be an interesting topic.

i don't remember the combo of this "razor edge" , but i remember he's running 46 ida and there's a report in a volksworld
you remember this one georg you 're there  ;)

Steel Buggin´Aka Annibal chico sells welded type 3 fans. If memory recalls he takes about 80 buckcs for one. I bought one about 4 years ago for a high reving type 3 (up to 7000) because I wanted "insurance" Sofar it has held up nicely. But naturally I cant say if a stock would have done the same.
T

Nice Idea! but not so many typ-3 nuts here as it seems  ;)

So here are some pics of the no.1 enemy for a flat-engine lover:

@Torben: was the solid inside piece even welded to the fan?

My "big" typ-3 engine (2.2) is still in the work (at the moment dry assembly), so I may get back to this theme with some things...

The before setup was 1776 with short manifolds (switched flange). I really don`t get the idea behind tall manifolds in a flat compartment...

these notches are all hardcore 8) very practical cars as well.

Found these pictures on the Funkenblitz website of one of our old Half A Brain club cars - Andy Burton's Notch. It was converted to Type 1 cooling, but very nicely done, with the tin extended to the engine bay shape and size. Quick for a 1776 Type 3! :)

http://www.funkenblitz.com/andrewburtons.shtml

(http://www.funkenblitz.com/images/456.jpg)

not my cup of tea, neil. and in general, keeping the engine under the lid would be my no.1 priority on a type 3. i've got some ideas on that. thinking 2007/42dcnf etc.

I know what you mean, but if you've got the carbs coming up into the engine bay, you may as well put the cooling in there too! ;)

How about running a pair of sidedrafts, like a DCOE Weber on custom manifolds? That would allow the use of big carbs but keeping the overall motor height low. I'm not sure about what's in the way of the side of the engine bay - it's been a long time since my Dad sold his squareback, and I didn't really do much work on that anyway! :D

DCNF's are the PERFECT type 3 carb!! They are short, and the bores are placed right next to each other so the intake runners have a straight shot down into the intake port. I agree, the lid has gotta be closed on a T-3. When I had my Fastback, I contemplated building a 2276 torquer with a K7 cam and 44 DCNF's which I had already purchased. I was also going to add another fresh air vent on the left side of the engine bay- one to feed each carb with cool air.

Here was my 1968cc before the car was torn down for rebuild. 44 IDFs, Ram Flo filters, Scat push-pull linkage, CBs shorty manifolds, and full flowed. Its an awesome set up, and pushed the Fasty around no problem. Believe it or not, this is being rebuilt into a 2430cc powerplant! 94 x 87.5 with 48 IDFs. All will be under the lid. This is a great thread. I will post engine progress updates here when they become available.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/397908.jpg)

Welded fan. The center hub on this fan was also welded. (not pictured)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/523548.jpg)

A high HP Type-3 car could definitely benefit from solid sub frame mounts, as well as heavy duty trans mounts.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/525178.jpg)

Rubber sub frame mount on the left. Solid on the right (from T3D)
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/525177.jpg)

Georg, I think you know these two:

First engine out of the T34 "Spyder"
2,4l WBX-aircooled, 82x96,5mm, Pauter Rods, Aircraft Heads with GWD-Porting and Machining 1 ¾ Header, GWD Muffler System

Unfortunately I don´t have any infos about the engine of the black T34.

this threads type 3/34 porn :o

X2

Thanks fpr the pix, Zündfunke. Yes, I know both cars. Gerd Weisers Ghia isn't counting, because he got the upright fan and engine tin from a type 1. 8)
The black car used to belong to Eric Justus, later on to an english guy and then to Fredy from DKT.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/310508.jpg)
You guys have seen it all before.  2110,CB 2288, roundports and injectors.  Daniel Hood has a nice eye for detail.  Still have the engine, but it's converted to type 1.

Hi Ideaman,

do you have some more info on the engine? What kind of special type 3 modifications (welded fan, etc)? And what about the generator? Exhaust? HP? Street or strip use? Yes, I want to know it all... ;D
Cheers,

Georg

Great thread!
Does anyone have pictures/info on how they modified the fanshroud for a bigger oilpump or fullflow?

Also, what are the options on exhausts for high-power type 3 engines? I don't allways like the look of dual quiet packs on a type3, I would love to see something more stock-ish or maybe with just a pipe coming out at both sides of the valance.

what about this???   ::)

cool Carlos, so I don't have to build your Notchback motor... not quite the way I would've done it... but for a guy like you, it works.  ::)

Don't do it Carlos. The intake manifold and carb will stick up so high you want be able to see the little doggie with the bouncing head on the rear package tray! ;)

is that a Bugpack exhaust?  ;D

Naa, that is an A1 Muffler! Don't you the quality of the thing? Just kidding Tiger ;) ;D

Hi Sam,

just read my first posting in this thread and it will give already some information regarding full flow and exhaust.

I use a 26 mm HD oil pump for my 2276 and that should do. With the CSP pump cover I just have to modify the torque bar (IRS car), that's it.

For the exhaust: Besides what I said there is Turbo Thomas in England, also building 1 3/4 in (44 mm) headers for type 3s.
Cheers,

Georg

 ;D

Nacho becomes Notcho... got it. Does Ratto get the royalty cheques for word usage?

Looking forward to the Type 3 Panzer... it's been a few years, yes?

vw powered tractor pulls???

Anthony / ISP WEST

Anthony.... Can you post up pics and info on your SB's engine??

What this tread needs is some info and photos of Tom Hansen's notch with a fuel injected typeIV engine.  Complete with Nikasyl cylinders an automatic transmission.  That was the way it was the first time I saw it.  I haven't seen it in a while so it may have changed.  Anyone out there have info on this?  Bruce?

It was a beautiful car!

March 2003 VW Trends. Love this car. It runs a 2.7L Type IV engine, though!

Donny, nothing against a sweet type 3 with a type 4 engine, but this thread really is about big TYPE 3 engines. It's the challange to make them last, not putting type 1s or 4s in there.  8)

Georg, I understand where you are coming from, however you would really have to see this car. It looks stock from every aspect until you lift the engine cover.  It is a masterpiece.

Some more pictures and info on the Daniel Hood engine from Luke "The Ideaman":

Car was built by Daniel Hood in 2006.  He modified the shroud by cutting off the heater tubes and milled the alternator area flat.  He then built a bracket for mounting a nippondenso alternator.
Motor runs great.  8.6 to one and 140hp.  Kymco 1 5/8" exhaust.

On my 1776cc I went with the orig. oilcooler. Withe the 2.2 I will even go with it. Too confuse some people ;)
A fake oilcooler which keeps the stockish look which I really like. The holes in the case will be closed and the inner tin of the panel modified.

Reworked the repro typ-3 under cylinder engine tin so that it really fits (never saw those on orig. typ-3 engines do the really exist???) and made me some alu head-deflectors (orig. with slot for thermostat which I won`t be using lays on the left)

And the last one is soo swett that it shouldn`t miss here!

@DKK Fred: Thank ya man!

does what exist?

and Died, the engine you described looks very similar to the one i wanted first. 78x90.5 with an FK8 and all type3, would be fitted with 42DCNF's and fit under the lid. heat is an issue as well with the fitment under the lid, so sticking out the carbs or go with freshairboxes maybe the solution for those. it needs a bit more thought for a type3 layout shown above...

so type1 it is!  ;D

and we will maybe be able to compare timeslips in the future... if i ever manage to make it all work.

if the carbs stick out the fan might as well do so, but it spoils the whole type3 concept, that is very true.

The typ-3 engine tin that fits under the cylinders (3rd pic marked with 3/4)

One word to the under lid fitment. If you got a Square you have to, otherwise go through the lid and make yourself a firewall sperator against the heat and noise.
Before I went the IDA route I had 40 IDF`s with those super flat air cleanners mounted. Then I switched them for long funnels and it was a differnce like night to day. Maybe those Ram-flow perform better...

hmm interesting, i have a set of these as well, but mostly it is the smaller ones i found on original engines, the one the builders forget to put back...  ::)

Here is the foundation for my "bigger cc Type-3 engine". Heavy duty (for street use!).
Its for my Fasty, but this subframe came out of a squareback. It has the bigger SB torsion bars and the factory reinforcement under the torsion housing. I used the red urethane spring plate bushings, CBs rhino trans mounts, and a steel fabricated torque bar.
(http://i629.photobucket.com/albums/uu14/jheath16407/IMG_3584R.jpg)

I wonder how those super slim profile air filters (Claude's Buggies) turn down the tune on these big T3 engines. Man, they look restrictive. Sure looks like a good application for some itg filters.

These Ram-Flo style filters are the way to go for under the lid and non restrictive. IMO
(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10803.0;attach=36450;image)

those look like they would work, and nice looking too.

If those are like the old Weiand filters from the 70's and 80's with the black foam, one good backfire and they are going to have a big hole in the top of them.  I've destroyed a couple of the V8 style ones many years ago.

short IDA manifolds, i.e. Berg's or Udo's: not concerned if carbs will clear body/engine lid, but do the manifolds clear the cylinder shrouds, etc?

The type 3 "cool tin" was only fitted to the last of the type 3's, and IMO they're crap :)

Jim, it is impossible to fit IDAs even with short manifolds. You always have to cut the body for them. At my Ghia I had the cut-out widend with the help of a donor type 3. Now it looks stock but has enough room for the carbs. My club mate Felix has specially made manifolds with a different angle. But even with them he had to cut a bit of the lip around the cut-out. You see, it's not that simple to make a big type 3 engine fit and work.


Shrouds??? What do you mean?

the project I'm helping with, we know the IDAs will have to come into luggage area... no problem, however, I am wanting to tune this engine with short manifolds, so I am not concerned with "how high" the carbs sit, I am just wondering if the short manifolds clear the cylinder covers, fan ducting, etc.

the fit will be tight as the cooling thin goes straight up pretty high. IDF's fit but barely on short manifolds.

i am so desperately looking for a shot of my enginecompartment and show how mine was enlarged. no second car was needed for that, the guy who did this did a great job in my opinion, and if i ever have another car done, would be my first choice, but he no longer works at the place my car was painted at.

Thanks Fred! Its like looking at candy!!

Hi Zach.
Is it just a feeling or did you make bad experiences with those?
The orig. fit of the repro one`s is really crap but that could be reworked.It`s even the first time I will try them out.

There was always or 95% a cause why VW changed things or added them. And those typ-3 tin must have been more expensive than the normal typ-1 tin, so they wouldn`t have changed it if they bring no benefit.

Just found this...

You guys are makin' me drool with your Type 34s!!!

Here's my 2332 that's in my '63 Notch. All under the lid. 84 x 94, CB EFI, DRD Stage 5 heads, Kymco 1 5/8" exhaust, MSD ignition.

(http://www.volkshaus.com/images/typ3/63/2332_motor/final_assembly/almost_done.JPG)

(http://volkshaus.com/images/typ3/63/2332_install/2332_in_engine_bay_with.jpg)

Phil Standard Time ;D Always late to the party.

The party never starts until I show up...  :-*

The original T1 deflector tin works very nicely in conjunction with the "sled" tins that go by 1&3 and pass under the pushrod tubes, and their opposites that attach next to 2&4. That's how the factory did it (on t1), the tin fits nice and tight with no air leaks. If you don't want to run those other pieces, then sure, the T3 "cool" tin is for you. If you're building a T3 engine, search out some original "cool" tins and the appropriate one year only sled tins, etc. The latter can be very hard to find, believe me, I know ::)

Guys,
i convert the 2176 enginge of my lowlight into a pancake...
I have some idea's, and this thread help's me to forward the part of the whole Gulfback-project. Thanks.
Will keep you updated...

Mario/DKT

been long long ongoing project ....

(http://s8.postimage.org/5yvepcb3l/panel.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/5yvepcb3l/)

(http://s9.postimage.org/56q15fprv/IMG_20111120_00293.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/56q15fprv/)


old engine set up. right now in progress swapping with Gt42R
(http://s10.postimage.org/f9y4d01qt/variant_mesin.jpg) (http://postimage.org/image/f9y4d01qt/)

bade ass

Nice to see this thread again.  I've been thinking (again) about a possible early squareback project.   I've always immediately thought of DCNF's, but might consider IDF's on stubby manifolds.  The ramflo-style aircleaners are sexy.   8)