The Cal-look Lounge

Spent Sunday morning on a long and loud drive through the canyons near my home and up into Ojai and beyond. CA highways 150 and 33 are truly beautiful "sports car roads" and for the most part, we were lucky and didn't get stuck behind too much slow traffic. Nice cool weather and car ran wonderfully. Thanks for coming with, Carlos.

just two more  8)

you guys look so cute together

I trust your Spa Day together was refreshing. :o

 :o :o :o :-* :-*

... more like "deafening"
"HUH?" "WHAT?"

Damn I wish we had fine weather this time of year!

Looks like a good trip  8)

thanks guys, yes it was a great trip. I do this particualr drive about once a month as "unwind time." There are 3 tunnels that run along south half of 33, the fun one is the southern-most (it's got a corner hidden inside). We dove up to Sespe Gorge area, which I think is the summit up there. The views and the peace and quiet up there are awesome. But the best part is just getting there.  8)

Your car looks great in those shots.

thanks Mike (and thanks for PM... sorry for some reason my network here will not allow me to reply to PM's w/o a password lately.... WTF? >:()

It's all good...

Here's a relevant question:  how hard do you run the twisties with 145's on the front?

Sounds like a cool drive. I find drives like that are relaxing, chance to unwind, and with the sound of IDA's, sweet!  ;D

Ted

My car will understeer, but not so much in the slower speed twisties. I think it is more in how I drive the car than it's grip. The 3rd and 4th gear stuff can get a little white knuckle, depending on camber of road, the exit after apex and the grade. Carlos might want to chime in here, with his impressions. We did get a little off line coming back to Simi, through the tight stuff near "Welcome to Ojai Valley" sign, I think it was power on understeer that washed us out a little. I enjoy the 2nd gear corners the most, come in, let rear just get light, then hard on power and back in line. I'm sure more footprint up front would corner better, but nothing extreme. Brakes are where my car needs the most attention.

here are some pictures I took with my phone.......   8) 8)

some more.....  :o :o  8)

and a few more  8)

The drive sure made my xmas weekend.  I have always loved Jim's car but after this weekend my hat goes off to his car....That car not only sounds mean but it hauls ass..... 

We stopped by starbucks got a coffee and we hit the road.  Such an amazing drive............!!!!  Car was running like a dream and I don't think it even got a chance to warm up, that's how incredible that car runs.....!!!!  I still don't have my full hearing back from those idas ringing.......!!!!  The car did not have a problem taking those sharp corners at a high speed.... People kept on looking on their rearview mirror and couldn't believe a vw was on their tail.....hahahaha!!!! this is exactly how a high horsepower vw should be driven....... Thanks Jim for such an amazing day.......   :-* :-*

next time bring some calabacitas, dude.

those pics are kept hidden in Carlos' iphone.  ;D

you got it........ calabacitas and beer......  :D

;)  :D :D :D  :-*

Jim, you still have to explain the plate to people all the time?

Bout time you showed up here Mr. Ruble.

Great pics Carlos and Jim. It makes me jealous.

Hi Dan, long time no talk... how are you?
Every once in awhile somebody will ask "what does the plate mean?" My explanation varies from "It means 'I was born in a catacomb to a mother sponge" to "if it is said 3 times backwards on a Tuesday night a Snuggie will be delivered the very next day."

honest to god, somebody at work thought it meant "F*CK YOU" in some ur-language.

John, Oregon has some awesome sports car roads... I know I was just ticketed for speeding on one last summer. You've nothing to be jealous of.

Wish I had buddies to cruise with up here.  :'(  The guys around here seem to have turned in their man-cards and can't get out for a drive because their other-halves won't let them off the leash.  I feel like the last cruising Mohican up here.....

housing prices are still pretty cheap down here dude...  but you have most of the good sports car roads up there. Joselitos is kind of a tie breaker though.... you don't have that.  :D

...... "Joselitos is kind of a" .......

[/quote]


 Excuse me..... did you just say JOSELITO'S???  C'mon MAN.... when we goin'??  My pipes are PARCHED!! ;D

 Excuse me..... did you just say JOSELITO'S???  C'mon MAN.... when we goin'??  My pipes are PARCHED!! ;D
[/quote]

where's me keys??  8)

where's me keys??  8)
[/quote]

You'll have to come pick me up... Sharon suspended my driving privileges ::) ;D

Yeah but we have this white slippery stuff on those windy sports car roads.

WTH - Kafercup, your not the last Mohican here. S--t i drove my car to work today. Lets get our own cruise going - Well head out Mines Rd - Get up to the junction and have lunch - Get a hold of me any time - As long as it's not raining - I HAVE NO LEASH  ;)

We need to get that 2332 alive and kicking in your car, Derek. Then your problem won't be enough guys that will cruise.....  nobody will be able to KEEP UP.

 :) :) :) :) 8) 8) 8) 8) ;D ;D ;D ;D

I’d be interested in discussion on making a Cal Look corner.
A VW set up to 60ft is not optimized for cornering.

There are some epic drives between LA and Monterey.
2nd gear allows me to safely test my set up and develop my car control skills.
Sounds like you were playing with throttle steer/weight transfer.
Bet it has lots of trailing throttle over steer? (A TBD is the worst thing for TTOS)
A drag racing close ratio box might make the car nervous to throttle steer, experiencing too much engine braking/weight transfer when you lift?

Adjustable sway bars front and rear could help tune the push out of it.
Firmer rear torsion could remove some push, but then you would have to change your shock valveing.

To dampen the weight transfer I like to left foot brake, helps me keep the car loaded while transferring weight as needed to the front or rear.
Go Kart racers left foot brake but it is a technique that takes practice to become automatic.
If you have too much front brake bias because of the tiny front tires this could be difficult.
Disc brakes w/ proper bias for your size tires.
Disc brakes were the best thing I ever put on my VW.
For now get some Super Blue or better brake fluid and refresh frequently.

For under steer increasing the front foot print would help.
What about a second set of wheels, some 5s and 6s closer in diameter with under 200 tread wear tires?

An LSD (I hate TBD on rear engine cars) could add stability during braking.

Take it to an AX or SOW, let an instructor ride with you, maybe learn some new techniques to deal with your car’s characteristics.

Interested in comments from others that have built their VW to corner.
Mark Herbert would of been all over this thread.  ;D

 ;D

I like your attitude and spirit, soldier.

I like your attitude and spirit, soldier.
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Fred what mods would you suggest to make a VW carve/crave the corners?

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11277.0;attach=37659;image)

Barring a full set, just a pair of wheels with some 185/60s up front would go a long way.

on swing axle would an Empi style camber compenstor help control wieght transfer?
stunning photo Mark.  8)

the 145's on my car are about 10 years old and have 40K+ on them. I'm looking into more footprint in the near future.
Carlos took the pic with his phone.

Good post Mike G.  The "mainstream" thing about a Cal-look car was the drag racing influence, which is cool.  But I"ve detected a subtle under-influence of trying to make a VW-Porsche relationship in Cal-look, as well.

Since it is really difficult to do both simultaneously, I think unfortunately you need to make a decision.  It is often I am personally torn between the two.  If your car isn't built to attend the local drag strip regularly, then it would make sense to me to optimize its behavior on the open road, which means making a car that corners well.

I'm all for it, and would enjoy the resulting discussion.

I prefer my car is "pretty good" at a little bit of everything, and that it "works." Last time I had any interest in drag racing was 2000, but I'd be interested to see the mph this car would go through lights at. Most importantly for me, I enjoy therapy drives. No phone, no traffic, no chores. Probably why I am particular about the sound of the car and the way it makes power. I know it's not going to win any canyon races, but I couldn't care less. Compared to simple sporting cars of its era, I think my VW holds it own, except maybe in cross wind stability. Driving the car in comparison to a modern car, even a sedate 4 door sedan can probably scoot through backroads at a faster clip. I know my Legacy Turbo would eat my VW alive from point A to point B. But be about a fourth as much fun. Or less.
I like to setup a VW so it is slightly "nervous", with quick responses from driver input, including oversteer. I like the feel of a small car that is taut, brakes are firm and positive, throttle response is hard edged and steering is light and positive.
The series of slow, uphill corners climbing out of Ojai Valley on the way back southeast....coming into those on a sunny crisp morning, the car dialed in, oil temp fully warmed, carbs crackling and gobbling cold winter air, then powering out of the series onto the idyllic straights through the ranch country in a scream of valvetrain, intake and exhaust....nothing is more satisfying. And there's no worry or concern over 60 foot times, red-lighting, or breaking out.

somewhere in California  ;), 2nd gear on a fire trail descending into Big Sur/Hwy 1.
I bet Beechers 911 back half split would be sweet for a drive llike this.
http://vimeo.com/3927959 (http://vimeo.com/3927959)

My beetle is setup more sports car than cal-look. It has 185/65s all around on 4.5" 356 wheels, a front sway bar and the stance is almost level. I would like to add a camber compensator and some konis but I need to spend the funds on other stuff. The 1914 with IDAs makes it a blast to drive on twisty roads. I usually carry my speed into corners, tap the brake as much as necessary upon entry and then hit the throttle again to squat the rear end. It corners very well and I have drag raced it, for fun, setup exactly like this.

Disc brakes, a 1776 with kadrons and heaters would be great to flog.
Style wise a functional vintage race seat w/2nd set of tires
Hook it up like a 356 racecar?
The AAA 200 mile flatbed/winch service helps.

I have a set of upholstered bucket seats from fibersteel on my wishlist. A huge difference in cornering would be made by feeling exactly what the car is doing. A set of 5.5" erco wheels or alloys at all corners would be cool.

at the 1 minute mark, something off a Brawn?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6RWkBAc67Y&feature=player_embedded# (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6RWkBAc67Y&feature=player_embedded#)
what is the correct cal look sport seat, need just a little lat support/feedback.
A good seat with 5 points for full feedback.
maybe cheep set of used formula vee 0 camber bias bly slicks to keep up the momentum in the sweepers.
W/big and littles sticky rear pads for a poor mans brake bias.
Get a V1 too.

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=11277.0;attach=37641;image)

Hi lawrence, any chance you could post a pic of your front tires and your car? It's time for me to buy tires.... looking @ 175/65 or 185/60

  Oh the blasphemy why don't you add square headlights while your at it????    Boy I'll tell ya....................





  Might as well throw a whale tail at it just for kicks....

 ???

oh I forgot..... "cal look rules" state they're only for going in straight lines.  ::)

Jim, I've got 175/65s on a pair of 6" cookie cutters, and they look kind of big on there - I think they'd just look wierd on the 5" Flat Four BRMs. Have you seen Nico's 165/65s on his '67? They're the same height as a 145, but plenty wide enough. I'll try to find the thread.

Ok then, here's the link to Nico-67's thread:
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,4740.0.html
and i've found a pic of the 6" wheel with the 175/65 too!

I actually like the look of the 175/65 on the cookie cutter 911 wheel
looks come second when it comes to being happy with my ride anyway

Jim I switched to 185 60 15's in front about 4 years ago for all of the reasons you mentioned on my convertible that is set up for the use you described. I couldn't be happier with the braking and handling improvement it made. Just had to give up the dragster look. I am running 205 65 15's on the back. Car handles awesome with one click down in the back too, I know it isn't Cal-look, but it is soo fun on the twisty hilly back roads here.

  Oh Jim.........

   I kid                       I kid.

it's cool  8)

Here are a couple pictures, Jim. Never mind the late fender on the front driver side which makes the car appear higher. 175/65 and 185/65 are very similar to 145 and 155 respectively. I would not run a 185/60 unless your car is really slammed in the front because that is a short sidewall.

I like that lawrence. Only thing I would personally paint the wheels dove grey. Otherwise it's on the money.

Nah, I like the color ;D they are lighter in person.

My car is way more "predictable" wearing its compensator. Boot the throttle hard in a corner w/o it and you're sideways city, and not in a good way. I have some photographs somewhere comparing with and without (same corners, power on). You can clearly see the difference of the rear wheels' attitude. I wouldn't take my car out without the rear compensator.
Next time we meet up I'll give you the keys.
In a semi fast 2nd gear corner, the compensator works magic. You can "flick" the car into position, then set it in place with the power and rocket on. My old Firestone 205/65 radials didn't work as well as my new Goodyear 195's in this situation. The 'stones would chatter and hop (I think it was ballooned sidewalls) the Eagle GT's claw in and hold.
I need to put my front bar back on, maybe add a 2nd stock bar to top trailing arms (I used to run this in my early years... two stock bars, 1top, 1 bottom). Gosh I would love a set of Jayburn's front brakes.

car's steering is lighter w/o it.

  I run no sway bar and drums as well.    Long ago on my '63 I ran a sway away front bar for lowered front end. That thing was on rails.

I have four wheel drum brakes and I drive my car hard all the time as well. I make sure I have plenty of space to stop in time with my 50+ year old brake system. It's my belief that our cars do not have enough front end weight for disk brakes especially with 135s and 145s. I want to add four wheel disk brakes to my car someday, but for now the drums work OK.

I run 175/65/15's up front, same height as a 145/15, drop spindles,2 in. narrowed beam, lowered narrowed sway bar, koni steering dampner,camber compensator, konis all away around, bought them @ Gotelli's speed shop in South San francisco 22 yrs ago.

Here's Mike's tires, for reference.  I can attest the car rides & handles excellent (but it is IRS).   ;)

(http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h311/cmhauer/Worriers/Maizevert_8.jpg)

I love the LOOK of skinnies on the front, but honestly I do think about 175/65-15s when replacement time comes.

This is not true.  Even with bicycle tires up front, discs will give you more stopping power, while at the same time are less likely to lock up in a panic stop.

They're 6" all around, Mark.  Maize can answer the rest of the questions, as I don't know the other details.

I'd say any of us that pilot a 40 year old + VW on the freeways of modern life deserve to be deemed "brave." I'm no different.

Like I've said earlier, my car isn't about measuring what it can do or can't do. You won't see me entering some cryptic 1/4 mile e.t. in my sig here. Nope what I am proud for is being able to go out to the garage about any time I want, and just look at the car for five minutes or so, thinking about all the stories it could tell, then to hop in, squirt the throttle a new stabs, fire it up and just sit and listen as it warms through. I enjoy feeling the way the engine strums the car a bit when it's first fired, and how it takes a few seconds for the Webers to "wake up" before that real crisp and instant throttle response comes around. As it comes to the first "stage" of getting up to temp, I'll hear the idle clean up just a bit, and it takes on this really "nervous" quality, you hear it more in the cam gears and valvetrain changing pitch than in the exhaust. It's so cool.
Anyway, just those first 5-10 minutes mean more to me than actually quantifying why I've done any of this silly stuff for the last 23+ years to this old box of bolts. Going on an epic 3-4 hr drive in the mountains, for me, must be like drugs for others. I may change something on the car, but it's all done in feel, not e.t., braking distances or lateral g.

Here's a nice link to a tyre calculator: http://www.powerdog.com/tiresize.cgi

You can input the tyre size and it will tell you all sorts of details about them like sidewall height, overall tyre diameter, and how far out your speedo will be at 60mph. I know that certain brands of tyres will have slightly different characteristics (my old Avon Turbospeed 165's were much more balloon-like than a Firestone F560 for example), but it's pretty good for comparing similar sizes.

I reckon a 165/70 gives the same dimensions as a 175/65, and might fit the narrower BRM a little better, without bulging the sidewalls out.

As far as brakes go, I'm planning on using stock front discs and stock rear drums but with the front wheel cylinders to restore some balance. I've always used a stock rear Z-bar, and with the exception of my Ghia, which was lowered at the back too, I've always run a stock front ARB too.

5 1/2 porsche alloys

I liked the front discs as they don't pull left or right like drums can.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sway_bar)
Sway bars, Z bars, camber bar help control roll which helps control wheel camber and tire/road contact.
If someone made a trick set of front and rear adjustable sway bars you could tune out some of the big/little tires issues.

This is how some dial in a roadrace car.
Bring 2 sets of new tires, a bad set of tires can make your suspension feel as if its wrong.
Spring scan with sway bars removed.
Find the best spring rates that make the car neutral.
Next adjust shock valving to match spring rates.
Last reconnect and adjust sway bars.
After a day of driving with no sways this was a relief.

The other one's 10 year old front tires and no front sway bar may give him some front bite.
New tires may change that balance.
As a rule any tires even with full tread over 7 years old are toast.

Any VW suspension tips from the german look racers?

MARK- the palm tree is stuck in the box.

the thought of a mutil day, secret route, VW Beetle-only road trip sometime in 2010 still hasn't been forgotten, ADD or not. I've driven most of the non-freeway routes between here and, let's say, Sheep's place up north, and given 3 or 4 days, we could get plenty of VW guys together and have some laughs. Your car would be a blast, no matter the cc. My friends (up north) and I did this in our modern metal 5 years or so ago, 1500 miles, almost zero freeway... we stopped when we were tired (or thirsty), always in a place of beauty, and first things first, broke out the beer. Nothing better than driving your ride somewhere deep in the pine forests, parking with your buds, cracking a near frozen beer and contemplating the ether.

of course, every group needs somebody to bag on, so it's a must that Carlos DeAlabama come with.  ;D

Right on, Jim. Sounds like a really fun trip.

LMAO @ Carlos DeAlabama.

 ;D

cool Dutch Police video showing accident avoidance using cadence braking, kind of a poor mans ABS.
A good technique for when you know you can't stop soon enough due to front brake lock up.
I used it last weekend trying to stop and turn on some loose gravel during our New Years canyon run. ;)
"http://www.youtube.com/v/xIezUcvgI7I&hl=en_US&fs=1&"
 

That was a great trip!  We need to plan another one....... :)

meetcha where we saw that box-shaped dog in between Hollister and Coalinga that day. Where you scared the color out of me in the 20V turbo.

Looks like you guys had a great time!

I also love the look of 145's, but I wanted AssHull's car to take corners, as well. I had 185/60's fitted to the 6" Cookie Cutters, and they fit great. It's got a 2" beam and dropped spindles. I don't think you'll be able to get a wider tire under your car Jim with the stock width beam and BRM's.

145's, 175/65's, and 185/60's are all almost perfectly equal in height. In a perfect world I would really like a 165/70. It would also be the same height as a 145.

 ;D

Oh yeah, the crazy Invasion of the Body Snatchers meets Deliverance dog.  That thing was spooky!

Jim, are you going to let Lucas drive on the road trip?

Jim, love your stories.  please continue!  :D

Dem

For those interested in vintage cars on great roads.

A few California non competitive/fun car rally’s are limited to 1975 and older cars
Allowing you to enjoy the roads and other vintage sports cars.
Most are held on weekdays when the back roads are empty.
Here's a report on a recent rally in Nor Cal.
http://fulviacam.phanfare.com/4338216 (http://fulviacam.phanfare.com/4338216)

Great link to fun drives all across the USA.
It was good to see some of my favorites were not listed.  ;)
If you prefer to keep close to Nick's here are a couple of routes.
http://www.lateralg.org/roads/orange/oc.htm (http://www.lateralg.org/roads/orange/oc.htm)

My favorite is the Targa California, starts right by Rattos home too.
Hope you guys can make it out there.
3 days and 900 miles on the best roads in Central Cal.
http://www.targacalifornia.com/ (http://www.targacalifornia.com/)

Hi Dem, thanks, and thank you for PM, sorry my setup won't allow me to reply. I did send you an email, though.

you guys kill me.  ;D
I've been driving the spine of the Coast Range in CA for 20 years now. Some say it's not scenic, I tend to think otherwise. I do have some old stories I'll share some day.

Looking forward to hearing more Cal Look adventures.
I'm planning a drive, some roads new to me, has anyone here driven the 25?
A good reason to be in the area.  ;)

Rennsport
22-24 October at Laguna.
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31637 (http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=31637)