The Cal-look Lounge

Looking at sumps and what's available, just wondering what capacity and brand folks recommend.  I assume most folks will likely recommend Berg, but figured I would put feelers out there just in case.

Engine coming together is a 2017 unit, with Engle 125 cam, 8.5:1 comp, 45 DRLAs, 1-5/8" exhaust, and will be a street/light bracket racing use vehicle ('70 Bug with stock gears at the moment).

I am biased against using anything made by EMPI/Mr. Bug, due to numerous extremely poor experiences.  Just wondering what Bugpack, Scat, Berg and CB sumps have to offer from other folks' experience!   :)

You're right, #1 recommendation would be a geniune Berg unit.  The wide 3.5 qt sump is hard to beat for the street, but your standard 1.5 quart would suffice with your combo.

Another option you might consider as they are readily available new and in stock by a number of suppliers are Scat sumps.  You can hardly find a stronger, more durable unit, and they look just as good as the Berg units IMO.  The 1.5 quart sump is very thin and fits tight to the case.  I picked one up to run on my '73 Thing project.  For a street car I'd recommend the he deeper 2 quart sump.  Its tuff as nails and looks sharp.

Mine would be Berg also. There 3 1/2 qt. Thats all I ever ran, no problems, just pricy but worth it.

Ted

I was considering a 2QT Scat sump, good to hear they're a good option worth considering.  Just browsing around at the moment.  I still have lots of building to do before I'm ready to install any sumps...;D  Just got my rods from VW Paradise today!  Woo hoo!

I used a Scat sump a few years ago and did not like it. Definitely Berg.

Berg.  ...and ask the to o-ring it.  I had mine done by a local machinist and it is dry as a bone between the sump and the engine case.  I do know that the Bergs are aware of the o-ring solution.  They just need to be encouraged.

I'm using the Berg 4 quart, but I may swap it for a 3.5 quart for more ground clearance. Obviously my choice would be Berg and they are only a few more bucks compared to an EMPI sump.

Berg 1.5qt.
(http://www.glenn-ring.com/engine/images/143_4378.jpg)

Donny,ask who? cause bergs dont have any and wouldnt comment on when they will again.
Bergs are nice for sure,I have had good experiences with Bereg,Scat and even Empi :o  yep even Empi,for what you are after I would use a Scat or bugpack,both strong and well made and available.

cheers richie

Which is why I dont have the 3.5 yet, every time I call they are out of stock.

  I run a Berg and if you can get one that would be good. But for whats readily available right now I'd go Bugpack.

I use a CB #1706. Works great.
Tried to get a big Berg sump for 6 months but in the end I gave up...  ::)

Berg or Scat for me.

to me a sump is just a sump, no real technology in it.

Berg is nice, has always been nice, and the price IMHO is cheap.

the way i compare it is I pay USD8.50 for a packet of Marlboros when i am in Alaska, so go figure. I know it is a dumb comparison.

Prob is they dont know when they have it, as many have experienced.

I have a Scat 1.5 quart now, and the only thing the Berg cannot touch the Scat is how slim and close it is fitted to the case. Berg is also a lot heavier, i dont see why would we need a sump to be that heavy.

For price and availability, Scat is hard to beat.

Unless it's an EMPI sump that is still loaded with sand from the casting process.

from what i've read the empi 3.5qt is pretty similar to the berg.
but what do i know? i'll be using my race trim sump ;D

Which ones can hold synthetic oil? 

And I bet a EMPI oo9 is similar to a Bosch oo9.

Guys, the strength of the BERG is in the details.  I just got finished tearing down my 1915 that I was using all old school parts on because of the leaking sump.  Here are some distinct differences in a BERG unit.  Even if you can find a used one...use it. They are infinitely better than anything else.

1. The flange section that mates to your engine is thicker
2. They clearance the very bottom of the sump so you can get a socket wrench inside the sump to tighen the case nuts that hold it on.
3. They spot face the area where you put on the mounting nuts to secure it to your engine.
4. They cast in place 4 support pillars inside so the sump does not flex or collapse when jacking up your engine to put it in the car. Look in all the other sumps and make sure that they have these support pillars.  If not, do not buy them.  If I remember right SCAT has them.  I did run one of SCATs sumps years ago but it was a pain to get the securing nuts tight compared to a BERG unit.

It is too bad that they are behind making the sumps. They are without a doubt the best on the market. I use them exclusively on my motors now. I believe that quality means you pay once and enjoy a lifetime of great service from your parts. With the BERG parts you are not making any compromises in quality.

Rick M

I was talking to Alistair about doing this.  They were even considering making o-ring billet sump plates. 

I have had my Berg sump o-ringed and have an o-ringed sump plate and there is nothing leaking at all.  The Bergs have the info and I hope they will make them...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=934276

I'd seen Bugpack recommended by a few folks... has anyone heard any feedback on their DDS style sump?  NIce looking unit from the pics online, but I haven't seen one up close yet.

Unfortunately, that is the case with many of their products. I wonder how much longer they'll last :-\

Rick,

Do you remember what tools you used to remove that Berg sump?  The special nuts they provide are 11mm (the black ones with the neck made especially for the sump installations), but I could never get my 11mm socket to work with a 1/4" extension-it would still interfere with the sump even with the cutouts.  I even tried to use a cut down 11mm socket, but that did not work and I had to go at it with an open end 11mm wrench at an angle so it would not hit the oil pick up extension.  It was ok when then engine was on the stand but if I am doing this job with the engine installed it could be a pain.

I used a race trim sump on last engine and will use it again at the 2.2l. Then with red silicone gasket from CSP/wolfsburg-West for secure.
Mounting (engine in) was escorted by ugly words. But it worked so well and has "the Look"  to me ;)

The first time you jack up a non-internally supported sump and have it crack and leak...you will never buy another crap sump, vintage or not.  The re-enforcing posts are in the sumps for a reason and BERGS have them in all their sumps.

Brandon,  not sure why you are having issues.  I use the small drive ratchet and sockets and never have issues putting on my BERG sumps. Donny Bulitta may have some input in this area too.

Rick M

Berg 3.5 sump with silicone seal (from Wolfsburg West) between case and sump, and also between sump and drain plate (aluminum Bugpack plate is used to assure flat surface).  No oil leaks with synthetic oil 5W30 in a street/strip Beetle:

(http://i43.tinypic.com/jb1oh3.jpg)

Scat 1 1/2 q for my 2276. My plan is to have it o-ringed on engine case flange and under sump plate too. It is sitting on Elring gaskets and no leaking. But I have Wolfsburtg West silicone seals for just in case..

Does anybody have a pic of o-ringed flanges?

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Seok-2FD6aI/AAAAAAAABdI/VpHzg1MF3sQ/s720/DSC00710.JPG)

(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SeolAB1mSoI/AAAAAAAABdQ/OYy_mOkAIC8/s720/DSC00711.JPG)

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/SbK5XbDemiI/AAAAAAAAA4E/wYxFkzKMUnk/s720/DSC00527.JPG)

Hi,
what did you use to extend the suction pipe? I only got the aluminium bolt on pipe which is very suspect to me and I don`t want to use it on the 2.2l.
Greetz!

I made my own extension. Throw the delivered extension as far as you can!

(http://lh6.ggpht.com/_nKjezkastzY/Sej7x4wW3rI/AAAAAAAABZo/qIx5KBhi6CU/s640/DSC00692.JPG)

I agree on the extension comments.  I only used on bolt on in 1972 and never did it again.  I cut a piece of tubing and fit it for the sump and weld it on. The only way.  Pressure test it through the oil pick up hole in the case to ensure that it is pressure tight for the best suction.

Rick M

Nice! But where is the Berg magnet?  :)

I used a spare piece of piping from a '69 Westfalia cabinet side-table...the "drop-down" telescoping tube was the perfect fit and was light, but strong:

(http://i44.tinypic.com/azbe3q.jpg)

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Nice! But where is the Berg magnet?  :)
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Berg what?:-) I use a stock VW strainer..