The Cal-look Lounge

I think it needs to be inducted in to the "Cal-Look" scene.  If Cal-Look is all about the 'look' and performance........a turbo should qualify.   ;D

I love IDAs as much as anyone in here, but I don't see why performance enhansing parts should not be accepted in todays society.
The cal look history can't be changd but the present is what it is...

Just got to know the secret hand shake !

If the present is what it is....
Why are you still driving a vintage Beetle ?
 ???

Speaking as a turbo convert....

I can't see how it isn't cal-look?

Q: Is its purpose to increase the performance of the vehicle or to enhance its appearance?
A: Increase the Performance

Q: Was it in use on the strips (and occasionally streets) in the 70's?
A: Yes.

Don't get me wrong, an engine bay stuffed with pressure hosing and all that is never going to look as good as one sporting a set of IDA's, but isn't the ethos of cal-look for form to follow function?

Did someone mention turbo and cal look in the same sentence around here again  ::)
Pass him the soap and wash that mouth out good this time  ;D ;D
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/49-rag/eatingpopcorn.gif)

YEA! why do we get fround at for going faster?!?!? More boost please :D ;D :D ;D ;)

I'm a hair dryer convert......just wanted to make sure I wouldn't get the boot.   ;D

No worries :-)
I'm currently building a new turbo engine myself so boost is OK :-)

I'm a provisional yes - got to look period perfect or not worth doing. And no blue hoses! :D

Hey Neil, I was running 'period' pressure hose supplied by Rayjay as part of a 25/30 yr old kit last season, black with a red stripe through it, reinoforced with steel wire. It was hopeless!!!! Ballooned every time I went on boost, and off boost (under vac) sucked nearly closed. Result: terrible low speed running. Not sure if it will have effected on boost running much. This season I've got Samco (blue!) hoses.... they don't look 'all that' admittedly, but if they can keep in 20psi better than the 25+ yr old stuff I was running before I'll be happy.

I might paint 'em black....
 ;D

Cal-look is about being period-correct. It doesn't necessarily need to work. You can't judge how something works from a picture in a magazine or on an internet forum. What you can see is THE LOOK. This is why style is the most important thing in cal-look world  :P

I'm another turbo convert. I am trying to build my car in the cal look spirit, keeping the engine bay as clear as possible but embracing modern technology in order to extract a decent amount of reliable streetable power out of the air-cooled flat four. I do however feel it is still a cal-look car in my eyes, stance, single colour paint job, original porshe wheels etc. All the turbo stuff is hidden away so at a glance from the outside it could quite easily have an IDA lump there instead.

I don't have visions of setting the world on fire with a Beetle, so maybe that's my problem. Sure, the power is great... once you get on boost. Wait for it, wait... THERE IT IS! There's no aesthetically pleasing way to package a turbo in a Beetle, and in my mind it complicates a simple, uncomplicated car. I've also never heard a turbo system on a Beetle that sounds good. Even the ones that are well tuned (which are few and far between), still have the high pitched shriek of the turbo gobbling up air, and then the awful pop off valve. I'll take lightning fast throttle response with a side of IDA bark, and finish with a healthy, free flowing merged header and muffler. You can have your extra 50hp :-*

50 hp?  Is that all the difference is? Seems like you measure HP the same way you measure inches....

Just because you AND your girlfriend are satisfied with less, doesn't mean everyone else should be!   ;D :-* ;D :-*

Luv ya Zach.... :D

I'm talking pump gas! Not E85 or whatever else, just straight 91. I know the wick can be turned up, and along with race fuel very impressive gains can be had. But for me the marginal extra power you can have (on street gas) doesn't justify the expense and complications ::)

Your car was waaaayyy cooler running 12's on IDA's and you know it! ;)

Wrap 'em in black tape Jamie! ;) I'm guessing the age of the hoses was a big factor?

I tried a turbo on my race car years ago, a side draft 40DCOE with a Mitsubishi Lancer turbo, on a homemade manifold and a homemade header. My 1600 had run 16.4's at the time, and with the turbo it ran 18.4's! Two second slower, BUT it picked up at the top end - the 16 second runs mph were usually about 78mph or so, but on the 18 second runs I was crossing the line at 82mph! What I had failed to take into account (or had just got wrong!) was the ignition timing - I had turned my 009 back to 24deg total advance, which meant that at idle it was mega-retarded! It took that long to get to the correct advance that half the track had gone by then... ::) I couldn't work out what to do so took it all off and put it back in the garage, and within a couple of weeks I read something in VW Trends where they used an 009 on their turbo project car and merely bent the stops inside the distributor to prevent it advancing to 32degrees... ::) :o :D

One day I'll have another go! ;)

says the guy with TRIM  ::)

If its a COOL vw, and hauls ass, Thats COW-LOOK

Even on pump gas its more than 50 horses. I haven't the dyno sheet to prove it, but do have timing slips - a 2 second drop in ET and 23 mph raise in terminal speed. Not at crazy boost figures either (12 psi).

Both on pump gas, although I HAVE run the turbo on race fuel while setting up just for a safety margin..... but my quickest runs to date have been on premium unleaded fuel.

think the needles well and truely stuck in that record  ::)

Ok, so everyone knows a 200hp 2.3L n/a motor can be built to run on pump gas. What can you get out of the same size motor, boosted, on the same fuel? For me, not enough to justify the hassle ::)

And lets us not forget, a 200hp n/a motor and a 200hp turbo motor are not equals.

Gosh I sure hope none of the above is true. Why everybody insists on "coloring within the lines" when it comes to this hobby is something I can't comprehend. Tastes and technology have changed a bunch in the last 40+ years, and coming from a guy that's been into VW's for 25 years now, I can tell you, this business of the "old stuff" looking "cool" is a current trend, well at least since maybe 1998, with only recent emphasis on being so historically correct, down to running correct linakge decals and the like. This is just my take on it, but the whole hot rod VW thing is not just about looks. Luckily what looks right usually is right. Honestly, I'd love to build a aqua colored late model with polished 8 spokes and a full on 80's ARPM motor, with none of the "in vogue" crap on it and go run 11's all day with my white Fomuling wheel and VDO gauges.

Maybe Gagen will sell you his vintage DEVO BUG license plates ! (for historical correctness)
:-)

I agree with Jim.  Looks like the king of the original cal-look guys Ron Fleming is using the latest in high tech available for the VW doing his thing....

Cal-Look is different in each person's eye.  Personally I prefer to use the latest in quality parts for my ride.  I want it as reliable as my Honda.  Sorry for that one....

So I've heard ::) :-X

The only folks I've found to dislike a turbo are ones who've never driven or ridden in a good running turbo car. Pulling like a freight train in 3rd and 4th gear (and  breaking the tires loose during a 4th gear roll on the street )makes you forget how cool IDAs look.  ;)

If you've got a octopus of exhaust and intake tubing, a huge 4 barrel with no decklid or huge decklid standoffs that show everybody what you're all about and what you have......it's not Cal Look.

If you've got a sleekly engineered under the deck hidden turbo system that hauls ass, it fits my interpretation of Cal Look. A wolf in sheep's clothing.

Thats what I was trying to say, totally agree.

I never get to see the rear end of an IDA'd motor  ::) ;D ;)

Different, but equal  ;D

Is hp the only factor? I mean - you can get a lot of hp from a naturally aspirated engine, but it will need exotic internal parts, it will have to rev high and it probably won't be pleasant to drive nor durable.
On the other hand, some turbocharged engines seams to be really "normal" inside (I mean- cheap and easy ;) ) and steel have a lot of hp. Sure, there is probably a lot of turbocharged engines which are never properly adjusted and "finished", but it can be done. 
I never had such an engine, but it seams to me that the best way to have a powerful yet civilized engine is turbo plus injection. Which is kind of sad ;)


Maybe they just still do what they always did? Racing, not collecting old memorabilia?
Don't get me wrong. I think collecting is a really cool hobby

The record must be grooved as well  :P

Ok,now add the short geared totally impractical trans you put up with to get the most from that high strung 200hp IDA motor,then think about the turbo guy cruising along with his stock gearstack with that torque on tap ready to just get up and go while you are still working through the gears to get it on cam ;)
And if he wants more he just chasnges the fuel used and another 100hp is there or more,what you got left in the ida motor? ;D

cheers richie

Fair enough ;) But I wouldn't say 200hp is high strung, it can be totally driveable if built right with a stock ratio gearbox. With enough tuning and seat time, a high 12 through 3 gears isn't impossible, and you can still cruise home in the fast lane. For me, that's plenty fast enough. Kudos to the guys like yourself who are pushing the performance envelope, sure is fun to watch (and mooch rides from!), it just isn't for me.

what setup would you build to get 200hp that won't be a dud w/o close gears and w/o race gas, Zach?

Zach, we both know someone who made 200 HP and ran high 12s and actually drove his car from Phoenix to the Classic and back.  I am sure you remember it better than I...

Your standard K8, 9:1, 2276-2232 IDA motor with a set of great heads. My old roomates 2276cc made 198hp at 6700-6800 as I remember with the belt pulled. He had a Berg 5, but he also had a stock ratio trans in it when the 5 speed was getting serviced, and it was completely driveable. You could roll on to the throttle from under 2000 rpm in 4th, and it would just pull and pull. It was a true daily driver, his only mode of transportation. I know that may not be your idea of a fun motor, but it will get the job done. I don't think he ever raced it with the 4 speed, but with the 5 gear he got it down to a 12.63 on M&H DOT's.

I know he's probably reading this, so Travis get your shit back together! ;)


EDIT:
You beat me to the punch, Donny!

All I have to do is think about that ride to and from the 2004 Phoenix BOR, and I get this involuntary feeling like I'm being forced back in my office chair...;D  The shrinking Mustang GT in the mirror is a nice memory, too.  :D

But if you restrict yourself to pump gas surely you cant take off the belt,they dont cruise on the highway for very long without it even with a 5 speed :D
2332 200hp in street trim N/A is going to be hard work,200hp turbo is more forgiving 
cheers richie

And you don't need anything like 2332cc for a 200 horse turbo motor... :D

400 maybe...  :o ;)

To each their own! ;D

To make my point.

Not Cal Look.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/657742.jpg)

Not Cal Look.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/614132.jpg)

Not Cal Look.

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/611746.jpg)

Not one of those cars would be cal-look, turbo or not.

But, what if you turbo'd an original GTV?  Would that be Cal-Look?   ???

 ;D

dont see anything about 48's or turbos  :P 8)

Hey.. is your car cal-look?

 :)

GTV's are period pieces, and interesting cars in their own right.

Cal Look? With all that glitz dripping off every available place they could bolt or glue them on? I think not.

If I found (and could afford) an original Rajay turbo kit I'd bolt it on in a heartbeat!

But honestly, I don't consider my GTV Cal Look.

I guess this wolf left it's sheep clothing at home  ;D

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/665430.jpg)

So if it had a decklid that covered everything up would it be Cal-Look?

-jeffrey

Not Cal Look?

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2419.0;attach=7455;image)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2419.0;attach=7493;image)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2419.0;attach=12709;image)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2419.0;attach=12710;image)


Not Cal Look?

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2735.0;attach=8921;image)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2735.0;attach=8939;image)


Not Cal Look?

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10946.0;attach=36564;image)


Yeah, you guys must be right...  ::) ::) ::)



 

The blue Bedford bug is where its at... PERIOD.

Since I started this, and I live in Oregon, not California, I can run what ever damn look I want.   :D

Here's my '67 (Cal-Look for the most part), now with Turbo and C-Lines.  Envision the deck lid mounted up...stood off at the top.  It will get mounted, just not yet.

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/Turbo%20Projekt/0327101156-01.jpg)
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/Turbo%20Projekt/0321102041-00.jpg)


Sorry Zach.   ;D

I don't think the genre "cal look" is a black and white term that is instantly "applied" the minute a guy bolts BRMs or 48's to a VW. To me it isn't so tangible anyway, it's not something one can just point at and say "this car is, that car isn't, this one is, this one isn't"... especially all based on the motor. Honestly is one car "better" than another because the masses consider it "cal look"? We get into debates of defining "better" and so on. To me, you can even build two very similar cars, same motor specs, and so on, but the subtle things may end up making the car one you could label (if you're into categorizing and labeling guys' cars) "cal look" and the other not. I think maybe the turbo scene is separated out because a lot of guys marry the idea of a turbo Bug with the whole "Pro Street" look, the tubbed tires, Weld wheels, NACA scoops, 4bbl carb hanging out over fender, etc. As you guys posted just above, there are 3 really very cool turbo VW's that fit totally into the genre just as well as any other true blue cal look car. The genre isn't defined by chrome moldings, or color of paint or cc of engine. We went over this years ago here. 20+ years ago, I considered a real cal look VW to have some really hard to find pieces on it, and a general lack of fluff and other crap that did nothing to make it killer fast. The advent of all the reproduction stuff has re defined that today, right? If my view 20 years ago was still the way I saw things, then all the very cool cars running F4 BRMs would be excluded. I'm not really into labeling cars anyway, I just like cars that have soul, some history and go like hell. Helps if the car is under same ownership for a long tme and hasn't been passed around like a high shool girlfriend, too.

^^ Cal Look!!! ^^
I saw your build thread on the STF and the efforts you made to make it look as stealthy as possible.
Car looks killer with the centerlines!

Nice car hotrod.... whatever pigeon hole people end up stuffing it into!

:)

Anyone got a link to the build up thread? Yvre?

If it puts a smile on your face, that's all that matters ;)

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=128157&start=0

Work in progress I know, but I'm trying my hardest to keep it all hidden away. Is that Cal look?


(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu296/thjohn66/DSC01281.jpg)[/img]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu296/thjohn66/DSC01296.jpg)[/img]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu296/thjohn66/DSC01256.jpg)[/img]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu296/thjohn66/DSC01259.jpg)[/img]
(http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu296/thjohn66/DSC01253.jpg)[/img]

I finally got my fronts mounted up...  it's like a whole new car!  Trying to keep the "Cal-Look" spiriit alive here in Oregon.   ;)

(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/0407102131-01.jpg)

Now that i like , nice bit of home brew engineering  8) 8)  may have to consider some-int like that for my kab

They fit the bill to me.

If heaving an exposed, visible turbocharger means that the bug cannot be called cal-look anymore, then what about other parts of exhaust system:

(http://i39.tinypic.com/24onewz.png)

Are those mufflers more aesthetically pleasing then a turbocharger, or they help to keep the wolf in ship's clothing look better?

On an NA car, it's tough to hide a 'performance' exhaust, unless you run a sidewainder or similar header.  Variety is the spice of life, I wouldn't get too hung up on an exhaust system alone.