The Cal-look Lounge

Ok .......What would be consided the ultimate street breather on a "Big street motor"....just when is it enough....? What is too much ...? What is too little ...?it's the last phase of my motor and looking for some advice ....?

I acutally like the Berg breathers.  I have used them on 1.9L up to 2.3L street engines w/dual IDAs.  I am sure I would be satisfied with the CSP brand as well.  But never got a chance to get one as I have been satisfied with the Berg units.

Clyde Berg makes a breather box that mounts to the firewall.  He has 2 different types, race and street.  I ended up getting a race type, w/multiple AN-10 fittings.  I didn't use it yet as, I am still collecting parts for this street/strip screamer engine combo.

I don't really care for those small breather box kits sold by Bugpack, Empi, and who ever else.  I am sure everyone knows or seen these kits, they come with the clear hose.  I have bought a couple in the past, will not buy anymore.  So far I have these on small engines, 1.7L or smaller.

I have the Clyde Berg breather....But also have the chance to pick up a Berg too...The Berg breather has 2 an 8 outlets ..!..What I would like to know is will it be enough..!...I am not to sure if I want to mount Clydes Breather to my firewall...? If the Berg is just as good then its a easy choice..! I like the fact that its self contained..!..and not having to run a third hose ...?

hand made by Pete Bolas

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Pete´s is very very nice crafted and welded. His and the similar Berg / CSP and the somewhat cheaper CB types are sufficient for most, as long as youre not pushing a high output high cc engine on the quarter or down the Autobahn. Then the volume is not enough. For sustained high rpm a rule of thumb is that you need the displacement multiplied by 0,9 in the breather box, so that the pulsing from the engine has enough area to calm down in and thereby release its oil fog to droplets and back into the engine.

In fact, many of these boxes, even some of the high priced ones are not designed correct at all, because they have no inside surface area for the oil fog to attach to, which makes them more for the look than how they actually work. For mild to medium sizes and power engines I also some the on the shelf types. But for high output engines I get them made the way they should be made, with much more inside surface, and with the studs where I want them. Since I began doing that we "suddenly" had much less problems with oil dripping and consumption (spill) at high rpm.
T

I personally like the Sil Modesti made breathers.  I have been using them for years with much success.

Wow, that Pete Bolas and Sil Modesti built breathers are pieces of art. 

How does a yank get one of these?

Sil Modesti is in Phoenix, Arizona.  You just need to phone him at 602-265-0401.  By the way they aren't cheap.

I picked up and installed a Clyde Berg on my bug....I love it....It is beautiful.

Larry

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Shot at 2010-09-03

The Berg breather has served me well for 20 years.

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Info saved, thanks.  Hopefully these don't cost 3 times what a Berg unit goes for.

Is his breather a stand alone breather or you use it with another breather? Any pics of the whole setup?

Ted

My own problem is that I get a little oil coming out the Berg Breather on 2303cc just cruzing from the Jamboree to Whittier, just easy driving. I'm going from the Berg breather I have now to the new/old style sealed Berg Breather with a Fast Fab Breather firewall mount, for more volume. Or with what I have suppose to be effient? I noticed alot of guy's running the Berg Breather with BIG motors and are clean of any oil.  ???

Ted

Yeah It Looks Great ..!!! Not so bad with the extra hose ...!....I will be running a thing shroud with mine ...should'nt be a issue...?

It is a stand alone and is custom made to your specs.  Mine has two AN-8 fittings at the bottom for the valve covers and two AN-6 fittings at the top for the aircleaners.  There are two baffles inside.  What I have found with mine is that with the engine running I can hold my hand over the top (opened) and feel it puff into my hand and if I put my hand down to close the opening I can feel my hand sucked down. 

Sil also modifies the stand so there is a flange and a chamfer in the opening into the stand.  The breather has a tube that goes into that opening with an o-ring to make a positive seal.  The cap is a racer part with an o-ring as well.  No leaks.  Sil will put as many fittings as you like, either push on or AN in any size you want.  I have not had any issues with oil in the engine compartment with mine, however I have a sorta mild 2165 that will go to 7k rpm, but not often any more.  Cruise at 80mph and stays dry.

I am using the one pictured purely for the crank case. I am using a seperate breather tube for the rocker covers

I'm kinda curious what is the difference as far as volume between the new/old style breather and there, will call it there late breather. But the question still stands, is the Berg Late Breather is enough for a 2L, technically?  What is the ideal breather for a 2L with IDA's and a FK-8?

Ted

Say Glenn, where does that hose go that comes off the top of your breather? By the way, nice clean motor!

Ted

That is the first time I have seen some exact, usable science mentioned in this debate- thank you.

Would you happen to know how I measure the volume of a breather unit?- Fill it with water maybe? I have a Sil Modesti unit fitted but have not run up the motor yet.  Previously I ran an early berg unit- very pretty but the cap ( I tried 2!) always fell off making a mess and requiring cable ties to keep it on. If anyone knows the volume of the Sil modesti unit it will save me removing it :-)

Thanks

CSP breather. It works and it does not leak.

I would really appreciate more information on the subject. Figures are always great but I feel there are a couple missing:
What should be the size of the hose to the box, and at what length? (up to what rpm/engine size)
How much bigger does the hose need to be if it's longer?
How much "free" area does the air filter (s) need, and what about the bottle neck before the filter.
How big must the box be to be able to run as a closed loop?

So if you have the time Torben I would love to get some empirical data. :)
I'm not to concerned about names of the welders and finishes, but the theory and how it works.
 

Sorry, I don't know the volume of the Sil Modesti breather, I just know that it works well.  My engine is a 2165 running DCNFs and I have no issues.  I think it will work better with air cleaners, knowing that most folks with IDAs don't have them.

I remember years back when Donny B accidentally forgot to put the cap back on his Sil Modesti breather and drove accross town without the cap on.  When he got home there was not one drop of oil that had blown out of the engine.  It was incredible how well Sil's breather worked. It made a believer out of me.  I had a BERG breather on my 2110 at the time and had modified it so I was happy with it too.  Still, the Modesti breather does work.

As long as the breather is baffled properly and allows the motor to breath, there are many options to choose from.  I prefer the BERG and MODESTI breathers as I have experience with both.  A Modesti breather is going on my new 2275.

Rick M

thanks for the Info Rick....Thats what I am looking for ....I have Clyde's Breather with 3 AN fittings ...But I wonder if the Berg Breather with 2 AN fittings will be just as good ..?

By the way Rick ..the motor it will be going on is the case you sold me about 4 years ago...!!!...Finally about ready to install it !!...taken so long but gettin there !

A breather does not know if it is on the street or not. And why do people still breath from their valve covers?

BB

The Porsche 912 did, but only from the 1-2 side. What's the harm?

Both valve covers were vented on Super 90's
 

Didn't the heads get vented on late type 3s also.

I've had a couple of different breather stups, both made from old halon fire extinguishers. The first one was a 1L aluminium one fitted in a mountain bike bottle holder that was mounted to the firewall between the hinge mounts just off horizontal. The nozzle was modified to take a breather tube and holes were drilled in the bottle around the top - gasses had to go all the way down the pick-up tube inside the bottle before they could get up to the holes. I had the valve covers, generator stand and fuel pump block off vented to the same line using T-pieces - it was ok at sub 5.5k rpms, but above that it would pressurise the 1&2 rocker cover and cause leaks. I re-arranged the tubes and t-pieces and it was better, but still not perfect so when I got my 2180 I had a steel fire extinguisher (about 1.5L) with four angle fittings welded to the sides and a small K&N style filter at the nozzle end. That one was mounted vertically and never leaked at all.

Gents, what are then the suggested "optimum" spots from which one should connect to breatherbox?
I'd really like to learn something new. Good topic.

For whats its worth, forty years ago we retained the stock road draft tube.  And vented the valve covers with meter long 13mm hoses arched up and over the axles, with the ends wedged between the torsion housing and the pan. Cheap and effective before "puke boxes" became popular, though
I doubt race legal.

Currently I use 19 & 22 mm hose with a Berg breather....everything's bone dry so far. When I put the tin back on I'll probably use dual breathers
in the fender wells. 

Last time I checked the size on that thing it was 16mm in diameter, and there is also that vent hose up to the air filter, that's another 10mm of ventilation on the stock engine.
If you were to replace these two with AN6 line you would need nine (9)!! hoses to have the same internal area...  or five AN8.
It's hard make a bigger system than the vw already has...

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And why do people still breath from their valve covers?


Again, Please advice me, what are the better and suggested spots to do it?

You should vent where the pressure is created - your crank case. If you choose to vent your covers you will only open up a "highway" for the oil to move freely up to your heads. When the head(s) are filled up the oil will continue to follow the easiest route which is..... your breather line. Why? because the oil is not allowed back to the engine case through the 4 lines it should use (pushrod tubes) due to the pressure inside.

overkill...but i dont have any other engine to fit the breather..

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Old School rules !
 ;D
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Thanks for clarifying BB, makes cense.

Kalle, how about venting only the 1-2 rocker cover to breather box, and on that breather box you mount one of those small K&N filters? wouldn't that break up the vaccuum (as the system is now allowed to breathe instead of solely drain back) and in doing so there shouldn't be much reason for the oil to travel "all the way" into the hose instead of the easy way (pushrod tubes)?

I see no reason why you should went one side if you breath your crank case efficiently enough. The question is, how do you know when you   
have enough breathing and of course this vary from engine to engine. With a asthmatic breathing system you would see oil coming out "everywhere" On my current engine I only breath from the original spot, the alternator tower, plus from the fuel pump cover. I'm using a CSP tower breather with a HUGE filter (40mm) The engine is bone dry

Marvelous! Just the info I was after. Spot on!
Thanks BB

excuse my ignorance but what do you mean by the original spot? originally the oil bath filter is vented, do you mean this? but that doesn't work with stacks, right?

 :)

Sorry, my fault. From the original spot I mean the alternator tower. I used first two filters (1 40mm and 1 more with a AN8 fitting to the breather box. I have now plugged the AN filter. My engine is a 2332 turbo.

Sorry to bring up such an old thread but does anyone know if Sil is still making his breather boxes. I’ve tried called the number this thread a few times but just rings.

I’d really like to pick up another one.

Well, I'm not sure who sil is ,but i like the breather that's fitted to the red bug,
puke oil fills the box, it breaths at the top and drains back into the engine.
I've discovered I need something like that after a short motorway run.

I don't believe he is sbtill making them.  I got the first one.  He made a number of them, but they were more expensive than most were willing to pay ($350) I think.

I had one on my 66 20 years and it was a great piece. I hate to hear he’s not making them anymore.

I’ve got a fast fab breather box on the fire wall of my 1970 bus which is connected to a 2110 ida motor. That seems to have worked well for many years

In the old days, we just ran a hose from one valve cover to the other over the top of the trans where we'd cut a small notch in the hose to vent the covers.  I still have it that way on my current rig... it's cheap and it works.  My $.02