The Cal-look Lounge

I have been reading for this forum for a while and now i decided to post my own In DA Werks project thread.

In 2005 i bought my first Beachbuggy. From the beginning i only had a plan to put on a turbocharger and have fun with it but during the tuning session Mr police caught me for speeding >:(
So without driving license i had lot of time to start to fresh it up litlebit..
From the beginning i thought just to make some minor moficication but it ended up total "restoration" and it took about 3 years to finish..
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/P7160093.jpg)
Then a turbo conversion which where done almost in a week..
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/P7300119.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/P7300123.jpg)

I had forgot how ugly it was
Donor car
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen/PA280136.jpg)

Some project pictures:
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen4/P6051846.jpg)


(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen4/P6191918.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen3/P2141255.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen4/P6091849.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen6/P8140185.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/macbuggykarossen6%202008/Picture098.jpg)

In 2008 my brother bought his first aircooled VW. I promised him to build a economy 1600 with TC. Target was to get about 120hp with stock engine. I had a engine that had been laying in the garage for a while. It was a stock engine with a grinded camshaft. After couple destroyed stock pistons we managed to take 187 whp with 1.4bar.
Best et with that engine in the baja was 13.4s and 12.97s in my beachbuggy
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/turbo%20rojekti%20kuvia/Picture170.jpg)

During last winter i got a strange idea to buy a vw based Kitcar. I had a idea that it would be intresting to build a twin turbo engine. Plan was again to just use stock or almost stock parts.
Turbos came from a vw 1.9TD engines and IC was siamised nissan 200sx coolers.
When the engine was dynoed i managed to get 208whp with 1.6bar. I did not like the car itself and decide to sell it as a roller and to put the engine to my beachbuggy.
First thought was to put also the twin turbo system but after some thinking i sold it to thesystem to  same guy that bought the kitcar.

After i bought it
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1029.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1030.jpg)

And here how it ended up
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1382.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1395.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1445.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1466-1.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/HPIM1470.jpg)

Here a dyno chart from the baja engine and twinturbo engine
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Ft%20bonito/namnls-1.jpg)


After i sold the Ft Bonito i decided to mount the 1584cc engine to the buggy and build quickly a single turbo system. I used the same exhaust that we had used on the baja. I had a goal to get 250whp but with small turbo i had i could not get the boost above 1.7bar. And i also had problems with carbs to get the AFR to be god on the whole rpm range. Best ET with carbs and 1584 where in the range of 11s.  After i melted my last 85.5mm pistons i decided to change to efi.

I made quickly a EFI conversion from megasquirt and 48mm throttlebodies. I also changed the turbo to a Holset to get real Boost from the system.
Engine size was also changed from 1584 to big bore 1641 :o
With 2bar boost i managed to get 262whp that should be in the range of 300 engine hp. Best et on the quarter where 10.93s@188km/h and on the 1/8 6.95s(with stock tranny).

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/street%20race/HPIM1661.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/street%20race/reetu_3.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/street%20race/reetu_3.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/beachbuggy2010/HPIM1658.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/beachbuggy2010/HPIM1654.jpg)

Latest test has been to change the cam schaft to little more fancy than the old Engle 41. I had a Scat c55 laying so i decided to test if there would bee any difference.
Sadly i had some misfiring etc so i decided to test what the engine would give with methanol. So i changed to nozzles to 1000cc. After some fuel table tuning i tried to measure how the power curve would look like. Sadly i got the misfiring again and after some melted sparkplugs i had to finish the day. But summa sumarum what a incredible fuel methanol is. Engine sounded much better with methanol than it ever has been with pump gas..

I have to take some time to investigate why i have missfiring issues..

Here i have a dynoshart with 1641cc with methanol and about 2bar of boost. IT is obvious that i have quite bad missfiring above 5500rpm..

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/beachbuggy2010/metanol1.jpg)

Then a comparssion with normal pump gas and methanol.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/beachbuggy2010/metanol1_c55.jpg)



Some videos also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqkx4fj2bqA (high speed camera)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=To9BWwB8-F0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcOJnfyzxX0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHv8H3pt93Q

very nice

For couple of weeks ago i bought a real steel Vw Beetle.
Plan is to build a combine Et racers and a nice summer car that can also be driven if it rains.

Eng spec
Bad as eng case (deck +9mm)
Cb 84crank
Cb 5.7" h-profile rods
Wiseco 94mm with 2#total seal ring
Cb Comp elimanator heads
TCS-30 camshaft

The car itself is a 1952 splitwindow with removed heat chanels.
Plan is to tube the rear axle with 3" on both sides and to fabricate a full roll cage..

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Splitt%201952/HPIM1694.jpg)

nice, a presume there is a turbo mixed in there judging by that cam, you have certainly made your other ones buzz!

Fredrik -- -- Since we are the best of friends, you should offer me the '52 for a straight swap for my '56 -- (OK, I'll send a little cash your way as part of the deal) LOL

 ;)
Yes a Holset will find his way somewhere between the rear decklid and driver seat..
But I i haven´t decided how big or what type. On the 1641cc i have used the Holset H1E that orginaly where planed to come on the stroker engine...

I think a Holset Hx50 would be quite ok if we get E85 also here to Finland.

I just love that kit car! Good luck with your new project.

Littel uppdate again.

Today we had a Vw dyno at mine and my friends dyno. Totaly we where 10 different cars. Everething from normaly aspirated to forced induction.

Hp range where from 17whp to 343whp.

During the day i tried to dyno my BB (beach buggy) again with methanol. Because i have been quite busy during the last week i haven´t been able to fine tune anything. But after some quick tuning i tried to take a dynoslip to see in which range a have the power. First and the last result where 343whp. I had in mind to test rise the boost but during the cooling my friend found out that my left tire was damaged. So no more dynotuning for me this seasion.

hp chart
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/kirppu_1.jpg)

And a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96MwmpVARuU


Here i have some pics from the event.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4013.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4016.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3992.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3996.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3986.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3987.jpg)




(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4009.jpg)



(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4007.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4008.jpg)



(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4011.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN4012.jpg)



(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3989.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3990.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3997.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/DSCN3998.jpg)




 

It had been fun to be there! How many hk did the ragtop oval...

Clutch started to slip at 2500-3000rpm so we did not get any real numbers.

My turbo projects! ;D ;D stock 1.3 AR engine turbo GT 15 of VW 1.9 tdi 105hp engine with boost 1bar(14,7psi) ;D

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02187-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02188-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02189-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02191-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02192-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02193-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02194-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02195-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02196-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02190-1.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02198.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02200.jpg)

(http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k617/mrmut1/DSC02199-1.jpg)

Nice budget built you have.
My own project has been untouched during this year because lack of time and interest. But i have some thoughts and ideas that i hope could rise the mas horsepower littlebit more..

For my next project I would go to higher RPM 7500-8000 this is my idea. ;)
What is your idea of 1600 turbo.  ;D

Yes moore rpm and boost would be the best way to go. :P
I have made earlier some trials to get up the RPM for max horsepower but without greater success..(power at +7000rpm)
Or i was able to get up the the rpm but max power stayed on the same level...
parts that has been laying around has not been optimized for High rpm and the whole package should be moore built as a screamer..
I also noticed that with engine speed over 7000rpm with power i got problems with the valve train and oil system..
easy to fix but it costs money..
And 1600 build was only for fun from the beginning.. And as a learing project for coming engines..


But next 1600 engine could look something like

- 85.5-87mm pistons (depending what i will find)
- H-profile rods
- counter weighted 69mm crank
- Cylinder heads with 40mm intake and 36ex
- CR around 8-9 because we now have E85 available in finland to
- Camshaft would bee something like 050" 275-285deg...

Exhaust smooth and short as possible but this is quite difficult..
I have also planed to make a comparsion test between 4-1 and 4-2(-1) exhausts..

But as always lot of plans but to less time..

Here's a +7000 engine rpm 392HP  ;)1641

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,15843.0.html (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,15843.0.html)

Yes that's a nice budget engine also. Funny part was that both engines a quite similar in that difference that i had big valve heads (40/36) and not as wild camshaft..
Otherwise same with OEM crank etc etc

I made a methanol test with my 1641cc engine and i got 343whp..(with 15% trans losses that could be something like ~390 engine hp...) It would been nice to have E85 instead but it was not locally available back then...
 
Moore could have been taken out  believe if i had some bigger fuel pump and nozzles and moore tuning. I only tuned it for a "show off" in last years VW Dyno day and only good run ended up in broken tire on one side..

During last spring i promised to help out a friend to build a "sleeper" bug with 2332 engine with efi and turbo..
But it ended up with trans problems and best et  for the summer has only been 11.5s@195km/h..

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM1871.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM1926.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/04122010053.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM1492.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM1430.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCqAu5Xb8QM&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DufoOqdzscI
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaDD/kirppu_1.jpg

This is very good and I'm delighted. :o :o :o
But to me in Macedonia is not possible to find free methanol in sales requires special permits.Аnd the E85 is not thinkable and the E85 is not conceivable , the most available is 96.8% Ethanol , they are a percentage of water does not prblem I can go and get 99.99% Ethanol.
If there is another secret to come up as methanol, so I do not know :P :-[ ???

A 1600 engine it is possible to come up to decent power with normal pump gas. For me it stoped on 262whp what should be in the range of 300 engine hp with normal pump gas (98E).
The green Oval bug i dynoed to 394whp with normal 98E but i think it should be possible to get about 30-40hp moore from it..
Lot of boost and enough with fuel then you have the simple recipe for powerfull engine ;D

I like your topic start because there are some similar lines with my project ;)
Stock 1600 with grinded cam + turbo + Megasquirt + stock gearbox + 2bar of boost with pump fuel = few broken pistons but insane feeling when turbo comes to game ;)
unfortunately I´ve not visited the dyno.


what were your speeds on quarter with heavier body and what´s the weight of it ?

thank you.

Hi, here is a videoclip of the car in action. Enjoy

http://cam67.1g.fi/kuvat/dragracing/2011/KAUHAJOKI_TEST_10.6/CIMG0976.WMV

Very fast .
I wonder how it is built engine  ???  :-\  even if it is 1600 would I rejoiced more

It's very nice and fast car, but in that video there is not 1600cc turbo engine in that oval beetle ;) There is something else in that car 8)

1600cc engine is in the buggy...

The specs

During last spring i promised to help out a friend to build a "sleeper" bug with 2332 engine with efi and turbo..
But it ended up with trans problems and best et  for the summer has only been 11.5s@195km/h

About the 2332
Spec is a quite normal Bolt togehter Stroker.

Cb 84mm crank
5.5" Rods
94mm AA piston set
CB Max Wedge heads
Camshaft 050"  ~280deg
CR 7.8

First it was dynoed with an Cheap Chinese Ebay turbo to plus 300whp but the turbo did not last for long before it destroyed itself.
When turbo was changed to an Holset power rise up to 394whp..

But i must say i love the car because in first and second gear it pulls like hell but in 3 gear and 4 it is totally cracy.. And remember it is not built for dragrace, it is suposed to be the weekend family with rear seat etc..

And what did you expected ?? 100hp and pulls like any other car on street?  ;D Deem it must pull harder than I could eaven think.  0,5hp per 1kg
What gearboxes do you use? how many have you broken of them and what to you think about 091 bu gearbox strenght?

I´m waiting for more stuff like pics/ specs and just a stories of your cars ;)
Thank you.

Let`s discuss gearboxes and high performance cars:

- Roland from Sweden, T1 gearbox and 9.xx
- CSP Ghia, 550hp and a T1 gearbox runing 8`s
- Hector Urias, another 8 sec car with a T1 gearbox
- 1641ccm - 394hp Swedish car 10.18 and a T1 gearbox with a superdiff
- Magnus from Sweden won the recent Tierp event (and that track is sticky!) with a 9.xx and a T1 gearbox.

I`m not saying that a T1 gearbox is stronger compared to others but I do believe it is better than most think. Give a T1 gearbox the right work enviroment and you can make it last. And not to forget, you get 2 fully built T1 gearboxes for the price of 1 Mendeola AND they fit in the car.

BB

I don´t want to ruin another persons thread but I still answer.

Thanks for good information. Before reading that I wouldn´t beleve that somebody could use stock gearbox in 9s car and eaven faster. How many passes rebuilt gearbox lives in 10s car? 12s car? ~1,3s  60 foot?
My goal is street car and I can´t afford rebuilding gearbox every month. I´m looking for 091 and they cost 100-200 eur  if you can find some here in estonia.

I broke the gear fork once and diff with high boost launch so I´m not sayng that gears are weak. Maybe I should break my 3 stock gearboxes before installing something stronger   :)

I´m totaly green regarding transsmissions. In the beachbuggy a totaly STD trans hold for one summer... But its a quite light car also..

First  destroyed trans in oval bug where geared t1 with "rhino" case and superdiff. And other where also a geared  t1 trans but with economy dogring modification.
First where destroyed because of wheel hop and other one because of bad clutch tuning..
But there are a "quality" trans waiting to be mounted. It should have  Real dogring internals (SF pyörä) etc etc. Should be good for 10s passes..

About other projects at the moment..I have been quite lazy during last couple of months but there are some smaller engine projects ongoing..
Theese are just simple atmo engines to understand basic things building a engine that gives the power on higher rpm..
My vakeup was the simple calculations that JPM presented here on Lounge and now i also have the Pipemax program to easyly calculate headers etc...

In common we have small but a very interesting VW sceene here in vasa. One example is that Last year we had first VW dyno day (in vasa) and most powerfull "stroker" engine where in the range of 160-170 WHP..
One year later the max power output has rise already to 195whp..

What it comes to blown engines we have turbo/compressor engines between 180-390whp and now when we have got the magic E85 fuel there are moore to come...

T1 gearbox of bus or bug , I found myself immediately gearbox of T2 - 4 speed , and currently have , and currently have in 1303s АМ gearbox IRS.
Is it better to auth T2 gearbox  ???

It has went awhile since last update.
There has not been any bigger updates with any of the turbo projects that I'm involved in :(
But something i have been able to do. One long time target has been to build ow cylinder head flowbench and i have been collecting info vacuum cleaner engines now for couple of years.

When i went to flow cylinderheads that i had made some basic prep on i was triggered again to build my own.
Then one Friday i called a friend if he had some plans for the evening, he answered no so i asked if he wants to drink some bear and build a flowbench.. Why not and here is the result.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1933.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1936.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1940.jpg)

First it was planed to make a orifice flowbench but when i discussed with flowbench owners i decided to change the design for a Pitot metering pipe. Benefit with pitot benches are that they are more flexible and have wider flow capability.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1985.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1987.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1986.jpg)

As usual the plan was to make as much by myself but with the software i had to ask help from dataprogramming expert. Thanks to internet it is possible to find calculating formulas so he had "only" to make the code...
Software is programmed so that i can measure the flow with any suction and it corrects it directly to 28" of water. This helps alot because no calculating is needed and i se directly if the flow decreases with higher suction etc.

Totally i have about 7000W of suction power i it is possible to measure up to ~300cfm with 28". With lower suction it is possible to measure flow up to 500cfm before i go over the measuring range of the sensors.

Vac motors
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM2076.jpg)

Bench 95% ready
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/flowbench/HPIM1995.jpg)

Bench where then calibrated by calibration plates that are non standard but widely used by one of the best cylinderhead makers in Sweden and Finland.

Now after couple of weeks playing with the flowbench i must admit that this art to grind powerful cylinderheads is not as easy as it was before the flowbench.

Most difficult ones has been the original type VW intakes channels. It is quite easy to achieve flows up to 160-10 cfm but then everything gets moore difficult.
At the moment i´am helping a friend with his Street Eliminator heads. Best result sofar has been without any intake about 178cfm (44mm intake valve). With a shorty intake that extends the intake channel it flow about 190cfm but decreases alot when suction is increases. Also the flowspeed meter gives very different flowspeeds in the lower and upper part of the intake opening.

What i have come up with is that i have lot of turbulence on the inner radius. Then i have a totally dead spot where the air is not flowing at all..

Does anyone have good hints and tricks with street eliminator heads so i would get up the flow up to 200cfm. Has anyone else noticed this turbulence just before the valve stem and inner radius?

Some pictures of the heads.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/WaFD/HPIM2117.jpg)

Dummy intake extension made of a old intake. This where heavily grinded so i could easily play with modelling compund to fins out shapes and sizes.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2140.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2138.jpg)




 

Good to have you back Fredrik and thanks for sharing your pictures and experiences.

I think you have just found out why almost every NA engine, regardless of size, produces from 160 to around 180 hp. The situation got even worse when well known suppliers started to mass produce (CNC  standardized) heads with poor performing ports.

After spending around 20 hours of working on the heads for my 1641ccm engine this weekend I HOPE I have managed to improve the flow from the-out-of-the box 130 cfm @ 12mm lift (25") 044`s with 40x35.5 valves, original bore. It is very tight around both valves in a original bore, there was sharp edges around all the valve guides and I did a traditional port job in the intake channels + opened up the exhaust just a little and removed the exhaust guide. Porting will always be a compromise when you do not remove the valve guides and valve seats.

Take a look here how Johannes managed to get 197cfm from a 40mm intake valve: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,3257.0.html (page 4) Note how he totally changes the shape of the intakes and how he
use Belzona to fill the long radius. If you apply a thin coat of oil in your intake channels you can use fug foam (fugskum from Biltema) to make a model of your intake channel:

Pics borrowed from a Norwegian build thread:

[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

I`m afraid I do not have any experience with the Street Eliminators.

Please keep us updated, it is always interesting to read, and learn, what is going on in your garage.

Best rgs
Kalle

Thanks Beetlebug.
First i have to say that i also think this CNC this And CNC that is quite funny. There are people that really thinks that when it is made by CNC it has to be much better than hand made..

Yes i have been reading JP postings about the mouse motor for approx 100 times. I have also tried to make a look alike copy of the head and ended up with flow around 160cfm without the intake. Now after playing around with the S/F heads i have came up with the conclusion that there is no idea to try and test intake channels shapes without the intake.
I think it has to do with the quite short intake channel that STD type VW heads have. And i also believe this is the reason why JP had much higher velocity at intake flange that is normally recommended on the mouse Morton..

This evening i have spent couple of hours playing around with Street eliminators. And luckily i managed to improve the flow quite a bit. Also the turbulence went much better. Problem was in the inner radius.

Basic prepp guides says often that leave the inner radius alone. Its to small anyway..
And i think this is true with 90% of every normal in line 4 cylinder engine.
But with type1 cylinderhead this seemes to be littlebit of the opposite. Inner radius shall not turn totally to the intake channel flange. It is Moore clever to continue this inner radius into the intake manifold.
Of course thees are very preliminary findigs i have come up with and i have to make moore tests to be 100% convinced.

Today I tried to make the inner radius much straighter and this helped alot both for the turbulence in the channel and total flow.
Before the flow where in the range of 190cfm@28" with 15" of suction. With max suction of ~40" this dropped down to 176cfm@28"

i want to comment here in between that i always give the flownumbers corrected to 28" of water. This way it is much better to compare if the flow decreases with higher suction or not.

Back to test with moore straighter intake innerradius I where able to increase the max flow to 196cfm and with max suction this dropped to 194cfm. This shows also that i have managed to get rid of the heavy turbulence. But there are some turbulence left beacuse when the cylinder is flowed with 10-15" the flow is around 202cfm@28"

Flownumbers from 2mm to max lift
2mm 53cfm
4mm 90cfm
6mm 125cfm
8mm 150cfm
10mm 173cfm
12mm 186cfm
14mm 193cfm
15.2mm 196cfm

Here i have some pictures of the intakes. remember that i havent tried to make any finish on the intakes yet.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2143.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2145.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2152.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2147.jpg)


I have been "modelling" a virtual engine with pipemax. Theese heads are planned to be mounted on a 94x78 engine so in theroy it is possible to get out something between 200-215hp with correct header and intakes.

I also made flowspeed tests and iám quite close to what pipemax recomends. But as usual i want to make some minor improvements before iám pleased..

I have also seen that 90% of stroker engines are often in the range of 160-180 horsepower. One reason ithink also is the aftermarket headers you find. i have tried to measure different headers and they alqays in the range of 880-900mm. This lenght is good up to maybe 6000rpm. If you want to get power above that you will need much shorter headers...

Other is that intakes are quite small just above the cylinder head flange. This means that with nice heads you will moove the smalles area from intake channel up to the intake manifold.. Not good for High rpm engine..

it is good to have friends like that than Frederick  :)

After that flow improvement I have to think twice should I use those street eliminator heads or should I use Superflow heads into my split racer in next summer  ???

First street eliminators then after Supeflows :)

Small update about the latest TC bargain.
Couple of weeks ago I got two of Holset HX50 turbos and now my collection got a new member. This time the very popular Holset HX40 super. I have had some plans to use this turbo on the Virtual High RPM 1600 engine. This turbo should be good for +500hp but anything above 400whp would be enough for me :)

Here are the holset HX50
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/kopta%20delar/HPIM2125.jpg)

Holset HX40 Super
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/kopta%20delar/HPIM2178.jpg)

Unfortunately there has not been so much time to do anything special on the flowbench. Only intresting where one friends angleflows that where measured to 240cfm@28" before they went to his head guru. Must say that it is quite intresting to se how small size difference there are on sf heads that flows just under 200cfm to real nice superflows that flows over 230cfm.

Hopefully I will have some time in the end of the week to continue with the Street flow heads. Would be nice to try find the last 5-10cfm that it missing.

Some intresting flow results from CB unported Comp eliminators.
Puide bought these heads instead of his old SF heads. Old SF flows good but target with theese are on hte "next level" what i had understud.
Moore of his project you can found on his blog.
http://rotta.markopuikkonen.com/
Must say that the finnish of the intake/exhaust channels are poor and also the combustion chambers. But good thing is that you have good with material to start to chape them as you want.

Hopefully we will be able to flow them after the port job.

Combustion chamber. as you can se from hte picture there are a quite big step between seat rings and the intake channel
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2180.jpg)

Intake channel
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2181.jpg)

And the flow results without intake.
Theese results are maybe littlebit poor by me. same and better flownumbers are atcived with much smaller valves and cheapier heads. Of course this is just a startingpoint and without a flowbench it is easy to improve the flow with 20-30cfm just by smootehing the sharp edges.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2183.jpg)

When you mention those big turbo I look around (KKK) BorgWarner , K27, K28, K29, K31
http://www.full-race.com/articles/borgwarner-airwerks-2010/k27-t3-singlescroll-30r-equivalent-340-500hp.html
K27 to assume the characteristic 340-430HP ,If you consider his goodness map 1600cc engine of the 6500-7000RPM boost 25psi can have 300HP

Some update.
Today i had a intresting evening together with pep visualizing new shorty intakes to his 2150cc.
Target is to dimension the engine to give max rpm at 7200rpm so the intakes require lot of reworking. Also the header will be Taylor made by calculations made in Pipemax.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2185.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/HPIM2187.jpg)

So it will be interesting to se how this engine will perform during this years dyno shoot i that we will have the weekend before Finnish VW open.
If everything clicks toghether i think it will be very close to 100hp/l.. But lets se

After reading the header topic i thought that maybe i should update littlebit about the PEP 94x78 engine that i was helping with during the winter.
As you can read from earlier posts we where grinding the heads to find moore flow. Trouble was that what ever we did the cylinder head did not flow any moore than 170cfm@28"

After mounting a short intake the cylinder head waked alive. With small modification we where able to rise the flow up to 200cfm@28".
After this the intake manifolds where shortened and ported we manage to get the flow to 195cfm@28".
Good thing was that when the heads where flowed with max depression of 35-40" the flow did not descend at al.

Because non of us two has long experience in atmo engine building we started to put in values to the pipemax program. Must say that without A.Norrback help i would never found out good tricks and hints about the pipemax program.

First thing was to put in engine values into the program. When cylinder head flow where measured it was possible to se which rpm these heads would give a VE of 110%.
Results was that 7200rpm would be a good target to try optimize intake and exhaust lenghts to.
with these numbers pipemax gave a potential of 200-220hp.
Camshaft where decided to be changed from FK87 to Fk48. Both camshafts are quite equal but what i have understud the FK40 series has a improved Valvetrain dynamics. For 7200rpm operation milder camshaft would have worked fine but plan was to put a camshaft that could work later on with wilder cylinder heads.

With this camshaft we calculated that a static compressions ratio should be in the range of high 12 to 13;1.  Camshaft where dialed straight up because it could be a good starting point.

To shorten the intakes Pep made a hell of a job. First they where shortened then splitted and then welded alot. But pep did manage to get the length down to appr 15cm..
Exhaust where then modified from Al´s header that he bought from www.aircooled.fi. Primary pipe length where cut down to 720-750mm and collector hole where cut up to ~50mm.

Target for pep was to attend on out every year dyno competition that we have here in Vasa. This year we changed the rules to compete in HP/litre and target was to get over the magical 100hp/l.
As usual with competitions like this they come 1 week to early,  night hours where used to get the engine started. Junk VW body was used as a test bench just to be able to test the engine on the rolling dyno.

So the car where driven its first meter right on to the dyno so fine tuning where left to be done at the dyno. First pulls where done and AFR showed littlebit on the lean side but because lack of bigger jets we decided to make a pull. first pull gave something like 160whp and with Ignition tuning the horsepower went up to 176whp @7100rpm. But we did not continue because the AFR where on the lean side.

Positive thing is that last year best pull where in the range of 155whp. Also there where not shorter velocity stacks available so the intakes are something like 15-20mm to long.

So i believe that there are some hp to be found with Intake tuning and to get the AFR right.

Some build up photos
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2243.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2250.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2224.jpg)

Cave ManPorting his intakes
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2225.jpg)

intakes spot welded together before fill up
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2228.jpg)

Engine mounted to the car 3 in the morning. Only 9h left to the dyno
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/PEP%202160/HPIM2365.jpg)

Pep did also win this year competition. I have been using the 15% trans loss calculation and this gave 93hp/l which is ok number for home made engine with homemade intakes, heads and exhaust.
this proves by me that if you use decent parts together and some calculations it is possible to build a nice "powerful" engine without expensive parts.



Unfortunately i don't have a dyno chart available because we run out of color in the printer.

Videos and pics from the happening can be found at
http://rotta.markopuikkonen.com/?cat=39
http://avipics.nettigalleria.fi/main.php?g2_itemId=3010
http://terpanturinat.blogspot.com/
http://pepgarage.blogspot.com/
http://www.volkkaripalsta.com/keskustelu/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=39599&start=150

Thanks for sharing this interesting info and congrats with the results. I'm a bit surprised that you went for a 40 series cam as I thought it was common knowledge that they are engine breakers. Yes, they produce power but anything above the FK46 will eat lifter bores for breakfast and I have yet to see a mag case survive a season with FK47 and above.

Ok that was new information for me about the FK40 series. I had understud that it is the FK80 series that is moore harmfull with not as good Valve train dynamics as the FK40 series..
But there are always days when you learn something NEW.

What other good camshaft are availble. Yes JPM but how is it with other manufactures?

Web 86C? 272degrees at 0,05" lift, 0,585" valvelift with 1,4 rockers.

I had to ask about this from friend of mine that has used FK47 and FK 48 cams from 2010. And he said that he hasn't noticed anythin that relates to wear of lifterbores. But he is using aluminium case, so I have to ask is this iproblem noticed only with magcases?

-Puide-

Hello
it has been a while since last topic update. To prove that there is life and things happening outside the "facebook" and blogg world i thougt that its time to update whats happening in my garage.
I must admit that it easier to just read what other do than start to update own topic.
Of course last year has been quite silent because of house buying etc.
And good thing with a hobby is that if there is no inspiration just have a break. That's the difference compared to normal day work..

But couple of weeks ago i started to work on my friends oval again. Plan was to remove the engine and change transmission to SF dogleg trans. Because the trans has to be equipped with standard nosecone i decided to rise the trans with couple of cm (2.5inces for us readers :) )
Because i had started the grinder saw i decided to tube and narrow the rear axle also at the same time.
Rear axles are these almost unbreakable Karpiola axles which are 3" narrower than standard narrow axles.
To get more free space to inner fender i decided to use long axle tubes and narrow these to fit.
This mean springplates are narrowed with ~106mm when drums are moved with just 76.2mm.

target with the car is to build a nice sunday cruiser or as the car owner say decent car to bring milk from 7-eleven. This mean it needs a rear seat and otherwise standard interior.
lets See how it turns out..

Some pictures

Work started. I hate to saw i rusty cars so this project is perfect. No brown dust coming during dismantling :D

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130102_203615_zps8f152e95.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130102_210231_zps68f3c07d.jpg)

i decided to rise the rear tube so it would apear to be orginal. Maybe not the optimal way but it is inportant that car inspection will not se imediately that there has been lot of changes made..
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130106_190725_zps2a872731.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130106_190745_zps1d10dab7.jpg)

Next was to narrow the axle tubes. easiest way for me was to reve the cup and move it inwards with 106mm. Theese tubes are one year only 1967 because they where laying around. Thanks to pep for theese.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130115_212746_zps920ab471.jpg)

Cups welded
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130116_200243_zps9271ea9d.jpg)

Now when tubes where ready the spring tube where next. This where made with suport sleeves to keep them as straight they where.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130117_173143_zpsc8dbb8a6.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130117_175611_zps79bb7c74.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130117_184133_zpsf83e7774.jpg)
Spring tube welded
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130117_185917_zps96006931.jpg)

After this i started to muck up everything to test the right height. Best compromise seemed to be Trans 6.5cm higher than standard. With this it should be possible to close the enginelid without alternator pulley hitting it.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130117_224712_zpsd08628a9.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130119_134730_zps8cd3c553.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/20130119_185710_zps5f88d4fa.jpg)

Next thing will be to start welding it back toghether.



If your are interested to se other cars that this carowner owns visit his blogg

http://maazasvw.wordpress.com/

I know you won´t find rust on that one.  ;D

Don´t forget - virtualdragracing at my cottage in four weeks!

virtualdragracing event added and reserved in my calender :)

Would someone have good suggestions for good cylinderhead instead of the CB 044.
Oval turbo engine had a pair of 044 but there has been lot of different issues with them. So now I'm searching for some other alternatives. Of course JPM heads would e perfect but littlebit out of scope for this engine.

Most important would be good material, standard look cooling fins and additional material around intake channels.
Valve size maybe 42 or 44 on intake and max 37 on exhaust but there has to be material between the valve seats.
Also they should be equipped with good quality valves etc already from box..

Would you mind telling us what kind of different issues?

It looks like Street Eliminator is a popular choice among racers over there. Might be worth checking out?

Best rgs
BB

Bugpack StreetPro regarding casting quality and material but they lack the extra material around intake flanges
and only 40x35.5 valves. Very hard and dense material, permanent mould cast, no core shifting.
     

There has been al kind of small things like, cracked valve keepers, cracked retainers, brittle material and now cracked valveguides also head material is somewhat brittle but then also soft.

I can understand that problems with the valvetrain could be tracked back to bad valve train dynamics. But i know very little about the earlier use of thees heads. They where mounted on a atmo stroker and driven occasionally on street and strip. What camshaft etc i don't know.

Before they where used on this turbo engine they where opened and valve seat refreshed. It was then when cracked valve locks and retainers where found.
Also intake valves had been leaking slightly on the surface against exhaust valves...

After this slight refreshment car has been dynoed and driven on the strip for 5-6 times (starts). Cooling belt has always been used because otherwise it would not be a streetcar :D

Now when engine where opened i found a cracked exhaust valve guide inside the exhaust side of the turbo. When i started to look inside the exhaust port i found out that 2 exhaust guides had no part left into the exhaust port third where almost loose and the fourth where intact.
I have no pictures yet but when i get back my valve tool i will open them up and take pictures.

As conclusion:

Cracked valve locks/retainers is propably because of bad valve train dynamics.
Leaking valve seats because of the bad design where exhaust valveseat is touching intake valve seat. This will cause the intake seat to be warmed very unequally...

This exhaust guide damage is then quite strange. No marks from that valves has been hitting the pistons, valve geometry is OK and i suppose that valve dynamics also because of good bran camshaft.

Problem is also that i don't know what they have went through earlier life as atmo heads. Could it be that they have been running without good cooling and they have "over cooked" the heads.

Why I'm after for some other head is that i would prefer to have valve bosses left on the exhaust side, better material and also valve seats mounted so that there is material left between them. Then also cooling fins as standard heads...

4

How is the material with DDS or mofoco heads. Theese have additional material around intake ports so some porting could be done.
Most important would be to find heads that have good core for port work and then the material as good as possible to withstand the abuse..

Actually this is not uncommon, across the big pond it seems to be a practice to get rid of the part of exhaust guide protruding into the port
because of the cracking. Too big risk of a turbine damage. There's way around it, use a steel guide with a bronze K-line sleeve and you're
good to go. Good enough for Top Fuel engines...
 
 

I was going to suggest Mofoco heads. Leaving aside all the personality on some forums about them, their as-cast density is very good. Side-by-side with VW 355 heads, they look and feel denser and heavier. They would be my first option easily if I ever needed new DP heads, but I normally play with little baby motors under 1700cc, not sure how big you need to go on ports or valves.

I grinded down the part of the exhaust guide that is seen in the channel on my little 1641 engine but then again only using a 35mm valve. After 1 season of racing and street driving + the dyno and map session I have 2-3% leak (cold engine). Very interesting to read about heads and material and I'm surprised to learn about your problems with the 044's. Look at Niklas and his 1641ccm with 044's pushing 400hp at 3 bar (40 psi) and 9.55 and 142mph. If I'm not mistaken he is on his third season with the same heads.

Keep us updated Fredrik. I find your thread really inspirational and some Finish sisu is just what we need to keep us warm.

Best rgs
BB

Niklas heads did not really like 3 bars. The left one cracked and the right one is a bit torched. But that might be due to the pinnbolts not being strong enough and the heads lifted

Thanks for sharing Johan. So now we know that we should probably not go above 3 bar  :). Good thing that the 044`s are easily available and very cheap.

I have thought also that theese 044 heads are of quite good quality and propably they are. Problem is that theese where used and i don´t know how they have been used or abused.
It is just the experience until now that makes me wonder of other alternatives.

About exhaust ports i have never understud the reason why they remove the valve guide boss. It is there to  give additional support for the valveguide and also protect the valve guide from warm exhaustes.
Also from flow point of view it is better to have a flow shaped boss instead of round bar..

Can I ask for a bit more detail on how you narrowed your axle tubes. It looks like you did them at the gearbox end?
Lee

is it standard length torison bar on narrowed torsion housing??

Procedure was quite easy.
Important first is to measure the length what it is before.
Then i cutted and grinded of the weld that holds the Hemispherical plate on the axle tube. After this i cutted the tube to desired length and re-attached the hemispherical plate.
It is important to attach this straight otherwise it will not move as it should. I made this in a turner with help of a indication clock.
Then i tigwelded it back together.

What is important is to measure two lenghts. First the length from plate edge to some zeropoint (i used the bearing surface) other one is axle tube length from the bottom of the plate.
With these it is then easy to to shorten the tube to the right length and to get the plate in right position.  

I will use standard torsion bar from a 1967 car which is shorter than the one used in oval cars.
Spring plates will then be used from oval but becuase of the "coctail" with long axle tubes theese will require some modification also. What is needed is to extend the spline tube with 3cm.

But easiest solution for 3" narrowing is to use torsion tubes from ~65-70 swing axle (i don´t remember precise years), springplates from oval cars, narrow the spring tubes with 3" and driveshaft tubes also with 3".

Common queastion about cylinderheads.
What flownumbers have you achieved with 42mm intakevalves?
I would be interested in flow numbers on standard look heads.

I have played around with my muck upp cylinderhead but best until now has been in the range of 186cmf@28". This is quite rough head without decent valveseat surfaces so low lift is poor.
What i have tried is to get rid of the turbulence along the inner radius but this seems to be very difficult..
Intresting would be to get different flownumbers on different valvelifts to se uf other heads have same behavior.

As thread without pictures are boring i show my test head
This is an old crap head that i have welded and filled with plastic padding to have something to grind.
What i did first was to grind the intake realy big and by eye very good flowing  ;D ;D
But flowbech showed totaly different numbers than my eyes did ..
After this i started to fill it until flow velocity was in the range what it should. As you se i use a short intake manifold to get the intake port longer.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/20121121_202854_zps5e932360.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/20121125_203523_zps92c9fca0.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/20121121_214751_zps7815bfca.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/cyl%20heads/20121121_202905_zpseac9acee.jpg)

If you wonder why i have the cylinder uppside down it is because heads are flycutted for 1600 bore.

[/quote]

I will use standard torsion bar from a 1967 car which is shorter than the one used in oval cars.
Spring plates will then be used from oval but becuase of the "coctail" with long axle tubes theese will require some modification also. What is needed is to extend the spline tube with 3cm.

But easiest solution for 3" narrowing is to use torsion tubes from ~65-70 swing axle (i don´t remember precise years), springplates from oval cars, narrow the spring tubes with 3" and driveshaft tubes also with 3".


[/quote]

many thanks for that Information.

some update from the garage.
yesterday i continued with measuring and test fitting the whole rear axle asembly. finaly i found out by my opinion good position for torsion tube so then it was just to take some measurement and brake it down to parts again.

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2716_zpsbf419164.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2719_zpsf7c2ac04.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2718_zps23a47e0f.jpg)

I decided also to weld the rear fork back toghether.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2720_zpsf8130510.jpg)

Some minor progress has hapend.
Finaly i got the torsion tube welded back into the car. What is left is to enforce the tunnel around a littlebit to get back the stiffness.
Plan is to weld in some additional supports inside the tunnel.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2723_zpsa8b56fa5.jpg)
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2727_zps268d9d82.jpg)
Shifter tube where also bended and lifted up in the rear end. Ofcourse tunnel had to be cutted littlebit so more welding again.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2730_zpsd0121f44.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2732_zps2f866c13.jpg)

(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2733_zpsa05975bb.jpg)

Length difference between oval aged and 1967 torsion bars.
(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/Mara%20Oval/HPIM2728_zps0694e580.jpg)

Found nice picture of my beachbuggy wheelie. Would be nice to get this car rolling again or sell it. It has been unused now for almost 3 years. Broken transmission should be changed and engine overhauled or replaced something fancy...



(http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a104/fgronlun/street%20race/reetu_2b_zoom.jpg)