The Cal-look Lounge

Are any of you running UDO's tool steel lifters on the street?  If so, have you done any tear downs to see what they look like after they have 10,000, 20,000+ miles on them?  Just curious how their wear in relationship to the cam hardness.  I'm wondering what the cam lobes look like when running dual springs for a long period of time on the street.

Just thinking about the produce for another motor I am building.

Rick M

Rick, I am running them and I hope I don't need to tear it down any time soon. From what I have been told you can use them over and over without doing anything.  Switch from cam to cam without issue.  I did it because I have had three cams go due to lifter pitting.  It is a big cost up front, but if it stops the cam failures it will be well worth it.  Remember you also need to run good oil.  I am running Brad Penn.  'nuff said...

I've been running a set of Udo's lifters in my 2332 cc for the past two years.  I've run them with a Web 86C, then a Web 226 (one year each), both street driving and 1/4-mile racing (120 races).  They still look perfect after 6,000 km and I will be running them again with another camshaft next year.  They seem to be a quality product, much like the old Wizemann lifters, which could also be used with multiple camshafts.  No flat cams or lifter problems either ;)

Hey Neil,  just the type practical feedback I was looking for.  I appreciate it.  Are you running dual springs? If so, do you know the seat pressure and what the total pressure is on the nose of the cam when the valve is fully open?

Rick M

Say, didn't AJ Sims sell some kind of toolsteel lifter at one time? Not taking away anything from UDO, I would buy them first, if I had the money. Just curious.

Ted

  Yes he did, I have a set, they look great still and will go in my new engine with a new cam.

Geers and Udo also manufacturer a lightweight set of tool steel lifters if saving valve train weight is something you want to do...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?submit=yes&keywords=tool+steel&type=text&stype=all&username=&yearfrom=&yearto=&pricefrom=&priceto=&model%5B%5D=&section%5B%5D=&wanted=show&zip=&zipdist=0&state%5B%5D=&usaregion=&country=&sort=date&sort_order=DESC&submitButton=Search

This is how it shoud be ...
It took me some years until i got the same quality like the original Wizemann .
Regarding to the lightweights i must say that i am out of stock , but next year i will do new sets . I only started this because the original company was out of business and it was too expensive to get new ones from the current owner that bought all tools and knowledge about those nice parts that i will not miss
On the advertising there are my 94 gramms that i manufacture to offer some cheaper ones , it is from Alan Uyeno who distributes them on the other side of the ocean !

Udo

Yes, the heads are using CB dual valve springs, but I don't know the peak spring pressure, as the springs were set up and shimmed by my head porter...K-Roc.

Thanks Jason, how is your build going?

Ted

Just a question.

I saw on Bob Hoover's blog (RIP) that he advices to grind a groove to connect the 2 originals lifter oil grooves. It improves oiling as there is very few oil that comes there and even less with hi po cams as the lifter travel is altered from original. Lot's of people do that while building their engines.
He also drill a bore through all lifters housing to increase oil flow.

I was wondering if it could be a good idea to put lifters on a lathe and machine them to have a single bigger oil groove?
=>  Better lifters lubrication, more oil flow to the heads(as the oil travel from the lifters through pushrods to reach the heads.), better rockers lubrication and more oil to cool down the heads?
But, the lifters will be less guided in his housing?

I don't know if it's understandable as it quite hard to explain, even when I try in my  French mother language  :D :D ;D

Interesting JF.

I will cut the groove diagonal between the original oil-lifter grooves as per recommendation from Steve Hollingsworth who's prepping my case / bronze bushing the lifterbores. It's gonna be a nightmare on Udo's lifters.

08-02-2011: not needed because Udo's lifters have a single groove.

J-F,

Interesting you should make that suggestion. You will recognize that a lot of V8 lifters are done that way.  We make mods to the case that help give 360 degree oiling in the same manner.  Anything that provides continuous lubriation under RPM is an improvement.

Rick M

I think there is no problem with lubrication . The light weights only have one groove and it works .


Udo

If there is a problem with oil supply it would be the rockers on the exhausts on syl 1 and 2. since the cam followers on the intakes are limiting the access to the oil lines. I like this approach to solving that problem.
(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3257.0;attach=11130;image)

   Sleeve the lifter bores. 

Hello.
The lifters themselves usually have enough oil pressure in both sides of the case. The real problem lies in getting enough oil into the rocker area. (On street cars mainly.) The Hoover solution with machining the case halfs for an extra supply line through the # 1 bearing saddle make a huge difference as to how much oil is coming to the rocker housing. I make this mod to all high end high power street engines.´(If people want to pay for it at least)
The grinding of the lifters to connect the two grooves for improoved oil passage gets LESS efficient the more the lifter lifts on the contrary to what most think. Simply due to the travel, so the lifter has less time in dock so to speak. Yet it is still a good mod to make, to keep lubrication at its best.
T

I had the same idea.  It would provide oil flow during the whole travel of this wide groove instead of just two short intervals.

I don't think this will be an issue.  If you look at an old lifter, you can see marks at each end of the round part, indicating that the forces on it want to cause it to wobble.  Remving bearing area in the middle won't have any effect on this.
Another benefit to this mod is reduced weight.

I know another option instead of modifying the lifters if you have your case sleeved they can cut two grooves in the sleeves to keep the oil supply constant.  I know Steve Hollingsworth, and I think Rimco and Brother offer this service.

   SLOW.         

     

Anyone have any experience with Thorsten Piepers tool steel lifters?

JHU, who did the case in your picture. That is how all mine are done. Works great!

Rick M

Rick, that's a picture of JPM's case for his mouse engine. Nice little mod.

The groove around the entire lifter bore really ensures constant 360 flow, along with the grooves in the lifter.  Nice to see others are doing it as well. It works!

Rick M

Ran across JayCee's new tool steel lifters.  Not sure of the weight but it is interesting that the pushrod cup is up higher so you can use a shorter pushrod.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1090201

 8)

unless you build a narrow motor... then your pushrods will be at an even more severe angle.

If it is a one piece lifter it make the lifter heavier . In one picture it looks like inserts for the pushrod. A shorter rod has less weight...
would be interesting what the weight is and how they work


Udo

They have inserts in the Lifter.

Hi Rick

what is the weight and do they work up to K-800 springs without breakin ?

Udo

I have yet to use a set although I am going to try a set soon. The weight of the 30mm head lifter is 84 grams.

How about those tool steel lifters that AJ Sims have or had, I understand they are good, just never heard anything about them. I think Jason said he tried them with good results. I actually have a set, but have not tried them yet. I sure Jack has tried his set with his BIG motors and with his level of quality, they gotta be good. The reason why I know, I worked at his shop in the machining end of it and the parts HAVE to be right, or they do not go out. The lifters are pricy, but if they work, they are well worth it, and I'm sure they are.

Ted

How about these ...
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=984223
Anyone tried 'em?

I had a great experience with my Udo lifters ... now I want a lightweight set ;)

Those ones by Shawn Geers are lighter weight with the single oil groove.  I cannot remember what they weigh though.

tom
Did you run your engine now ? I think i know who did it , but i am not shure if i make some more lightweights . They are very expensive to manufacture and if there are some other avaliable.... The 94 gramms are still avaliable.

Udo

That is heavy for a 2 piece lifter. Sorry ..

Udo

Udo,
Yes, I built a 74X94 engine using your 94g lifters and it was quite a nice experience upon initial start-up.
My next project requires a lighter valve-train.
Best regards ...

Good to hear, A light valve train has a lot of advantages . May be i make a new bunsh during the year . Or you try shawn geers or jacks lifters and tell me how they work  ;)

Udo

I run T.Pieper lifters in my 2.2l. Nor probs. Two other clubmates even have Pieper lifters in their engines running. No probs.
They only thing to take caution at is that the pushrod needs to get exactly into the lifters. The lifters are very tight in the bore / pushrodhead. So take time for the pushrod/rockers assembley.
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2712/4439118730_fdb7f11008.jpg)
Have fun!

Hi Felix,
that´s right....the old version have this "problem" but since one year, I produce a"facelift" without this pecial problem and with an better surface harden process!!
And into 6-8 weeks comes a new 28mm lifter!!!

Greetings Thorsten Pieper