The Cal-look Lounge

The Bay Bus scene seems to be big in Europe.  Who makes the best (quality) dropped spindles for Bay Buses that clears disc brake calipers, etc.?

Rick M

Rick, I think Russ at Old Speed makes his old and looks pretty good.

Ted

I've had a set of oldspeed ones shipped here and i'm very happy about them!

I think the place is called Transporterhous (haus or house)? Anyway they flip the stock spindle and modify the trailing arms to go with and supposed to be the hot setup. They are in Europe though. Or Wagenswest here in the USA. Check out Earlybay.com for more.

All bay bus spindles are welded originals. Split spindles are flipped.

Zach,

I've heard of some guys converting their BAYS to early spindles to make the conversion work better.  Have you heard this?  If so, do you have any references for the work. I can fab almost everything if I see how it is being done. All I have is late model bus spindles. After looking at some pictures it looked like I would need to build a new beam for the bus.

Rick M

OK, maybe not flipped exactly but repositioned?
http://transporterhaus.de/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=69&Itemid=127

Without going into too much detail, make sure you use bay spindles on a bay (welded are ok), and don't ever flip the steering rods unless you do both ends of it.
It will handle significantly worse that stock if you stray from this.  :-[

In the UK some bays are running king and link pin front ends using 64-67 split beam setups (usually new narrowed beams) with 64-67 trailing arms and spindles.  They chose this route to get as low as possible with the best quality ride because slammed ball joint bays are notorious for poor ride quality and wearing out ball joints quickly.  Of course there are issues with the wheel bolt pattern and brake setup for 71-79 buses but if you use 96 on brazilian bay spindles - these are king pin too - then you get the same bolt pattern and also 73-79 disc brakes!

Then we launched the flipped balll joint spindles.  Same as stock ride quality and you can get that front end super low.  Unwelded just machined.  No increase in track, runs with any rim size.  Cheaper and easier to convert than changing your whole front end to king pin + 64-67 spindle cores are non existent in the UK.  We now have a lot of guys using our ball joint drop spindles with excellent results.

No no, they make flipped bay spindles with flipped arms & special ball joints..

I know that this is off-topic,sorry, but can I ask you for those details? What is the problem?
I was thinking about flipping the outer rod ends (in my Bug, not Bus).

On a bay you are making the steering geometry worse when you do just one end.
However when you are doing it on a bug you might even improve steering geometry.

This is the reason why I want (need) to do it.
So I see that the problem is Baywindow-related, not general. Thank you.

Going back to topic - are they any Bay window dropped spindles that allow a moderate drop? I don't know much about the Buses, and from what I see during the shows most of the lowered buses today are extremely low. This is a fashion now, seems like most of people are trying to go lower then everybody else. And what if I wanted to drop the nose of the Bus just slightly, so to gain a nicer stance and yet retain the possibility to carry people, loads etc and retain the normal characteristics of the Bus? For me a bus should be practical and should be able to get me where I want to go. And i don;t believe that people using smart-car tires and scraping the ground with their suspension components care about things like steering geometry.

The welded spindles are 2.5 inch drop and flipped (Link pin or ball joint) are 3.5 inch. Welded spindles would be good for a slight drop but will push the wheels out some. Not sure how much though.

cant you cut the springleaves like they did on bugs?

well you can but removing a front beam from a bay is quite a pain in the ***, much more work than a bug. So i'd rather go for the dropped spindles route..

Russel at oldspeed makes dropped spindles that are welded but do not increase the track like that: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=679110

it's what I have on my bay, very happy with them!

I think the dropped spindles on the front look great when the rear is leveled out to match. Gets rid of that nose bleed stance all Bays have. Looks like it should have come from the factory that way.

I am definitely going for lowering the back and front. Sounds like Transporterhaus has the best set up for where I want to be.  I have a 74 that I want to retain the DISC brakes on.  It will, however, not look anything like a 74 when I am done with it.

Transporterhaus, any idea what shipping would be to send a pair of spindles to the US (Arizona, 85361) and do I need to send mine over as cores as well along with the trailing arms to modify for BALL JOINT placement?

RM

Weight is 30kg.  Cheapest shipping I can find is £90 / $145 by Fedex Air.

Shipping is a lot so we can do a deal on the shipping 50% discount.

No point in sending cores back, shipping will cost more than they are worth.  We'll waive the core charge on this occasion.

Why would you need to remove the beam?
If you remove the trailing arms, you can pull out the leaves, no? and then cut them....

why would you want to cut the leaves?  ???

to lower it  :D

We have those from Wagenswest on the SCC bus.  http://www.wagenswest.com/parts.html#6879spindles

:)

Hello,

I have the dropped Spindels from transporterhaus, very nice stuff  ;) already did more than 10.000km on it  ;D

in front: dropped spindels and adjusters plus airshock's (and 944 brakes)
rear: horse shoe plates with spax's shocks (and 944 brakes):

(http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss101/DevinckeWim/DSC08554.jpg)

(http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss101/DevinckeWim/DSC08374.jpg)

(http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss101/DevinckeWim/DSC08373.jpg)

(http://i566.photobucket.com/albums/ss101/DevinckeWim/DSC08372.jpg)

greetings mycha

Any other changes in the front suspension? How does work? I mean - when you drive on the road.

Also a 2" narrowed adjustable (50% up, 50% down compared to std) beam, very nice to drive :)

Sits Nice!

Mychatype3,

Your bay window sits perfect!  Just what I envision with mine when done.  You've done a very nice job on how it sets and the overall look wtih the alloys. I have FUCHs for mine as well.  I may email you direct for some input.

Rick M

Thanks, if there are any questions let me now  ;)

My beam is narrowed 2,75cm a side and the fuchs are 5,5x15 (165/65/15) up front and 6x15 175/70/15) rear
Greetings from the Netherlands, mycha

http://www.slamwerks.co.uk/

http://www.creative-engineering.com/

http://transporterhaus.de/

http://www.bugwelder-shop.com/t2dshop/product_info.php?info=p33_Dropped-Spindles--Ball-Joint-type.html

a few more links!

Jesus,

THanks for the resources.  I really like how Transporterhaus has done their spindles.  Looks like Type 2 detectives did the same thing. Glad to know there are some good resources out their to give a Bay Window the right stance and ride.

Rick M

Are there any US companies doing the dropped spindles for bay buses? Kind of a hassle to have to ship everything to the UK and back again if I don't have to.

RM

Call Russ @ Oldspeed (562)531-4190, he is located in Paramount. He should have everything you need

There is only 2 firms making the flipped ball joint spindles - Transporterhaus in the UK and Kieftenklok in Holland.  All other bay drop spindles are welded.

http://www.wagenswest.com/

http://www.kustomcoachwerks.com/spindles.php

Isn't one of these guys making a set yet?

Also considers Vintage-Autohaus in France, very pleased with my setup (4.3" narrowed beam, dropped spindles, and adjustables spring plates)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs025.ash2/34620_134205993283519_115757081795077_173968_7182649_n.jpg)

VA spindles are a CNC part bolted and welded on the original spindle, they also convert from 5*112 to 5*130

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/133712/dyn001_original_800_600_jpeg_2633228_89dba9c6f1b3ea756893389136df464d.jpg)

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/133712/dyn009_original_800_600_jpeg__a4363694a23ee7d4f1a5c1e3881506ed.jpg)

All the bay window drop spindles made in the US are welded.  Welded spindles are not popular in europe.

Jesus,

Do you have an idea what shipping spindles and a set of your modified trailing arms runs from Europe to 85361 in Arizona?  I am not a fan of trying welded spindles on a bus.

Rick M

I use some Vintage Autohaus spindles on my buses!
http://www.vintageautohaus.com/prod-fuseedecalee.htm (http://www.vintageautohaus.com/prod-fuseedecalee.htm)
 ;D ;D ;D
Rick, for any price or help with french, you can send me a message.

I would be more sceptically to run my bus hanging on the balljoints then with welded spindels....but of course, that may be because I have welded spindels and have run with them some ten thousand kilometers now  ;)

Hey Fabs,

I tried your hotmail address an the server kicked it back. Try me at my usedvwbits@gmail.com.  I looked at the dropped spindles on your site. I did not realize the transporterhaus spindles had the Ball Joints reversed until I went back and looked at them. 

The van I am building is a 74.  Let me know a little about the spindles on the link you posted.  They look to be of good quality. Do you know if they kick out the track wider? Also, what type of caliper are they made for (VW Bus or other)?

Look forward to your message. Email me and I will respond.

Rick M

I have no idea how much it'd be to ship them to you, but LOTS probably as they are seriously heavy plus being quite bulky.

I have run welded drop spindles for probably 20,000 miles (been on almost 4 years) It does widen the track which is why I run a narrowed beam, The flipped over balljoint's seem to work, but to me look just so damn wrong, They scare me more than welded spindles do. (and when I did my van they weren't on the market) Lets be honest as long as they are welded properly whats the issue? Our front beams are held together with welding!!! People are only worried about welded spindles as originally you couldn't buy them so they were home brewed items, now they are done properly I don't see what the issue is!

The reason people favour the flipped spindles now is it doesn't widen the track, so although the spindles cost more than the welded you don't have to go down the narrowed beam route. much more suitable if your only going for a small hit with the lowering stick.

Below bus is running the flippped drop spindles on a standard ball join beam with stock disc brakes and a one spline lower at the rear. (spindles are Kleft en klok or T2D ones)

(http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs020.ash2/34370_409077100937_110083145937_5058642_4886726_n.jpg)

If you want a really low bus the best way to go is to go for a King and Link pin split beam as they give you more ground clearance.

(http://)(http://inlinethumb39.webshots.com/39526/2412228280095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2412228280095682735HsciZf)(http://)


this is a 68-70 2 inch dropped .200" narrowed spindle.  It fits with drum brakes and also with our 944 brake kit

(http://)(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/46475/2139107760095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2139107760095682735HDOGfF)(http://)

(http://)(http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/46783/2504987880095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2504987880095682735SUIHeq)(http://)

The disc brake version is very similar but cheaper to make because it doesn't require as much work or material.  the 68-70 are $400 exchange and the 71-79 are $350 exchange.  Shipping inside the U.S. is $25
I don't think anyone else is currently making a narrowed spindle. The fact that we narrow the spindle is why we can only get 2 inches of drop. The lower ball joint stud will interfere with the inside of the rim at more than 2 inches unless you widen the spindle or flip the ball joint over. This method maintains stock steering geometry and ride height. They are also corrected for caster angle for better handling. Vee grooved and tig welded.

Is that with the stock 14" rim? Can you get more drop out of a larger diameter wheel? Or am I missing the point?

I do like that yellow/white bay. That's the stance it should have had from the factory.

(http://)(http://inlinethumb05.webshots.com/35780/2035180810095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2035180810095682735GWmInp)(http://)


This bus has 2 inch drop spindles and adjusters.  It also has four wheel 944 brakes and a 7 inch power booster.  The 944 kits are bolt on kits that we make in house and allow you to use your own 944 parts or bet complete kits from us. We also have Wilwood disc brake kits.
This bus also has a type 1 five speed trans and an 86 x 94 engine. It has a tow hitch and makes frequent trips from Long beach to Laughlin with and without a trailer.

Yes with 14 inch wheels. It would be possible to make more drop with larger diameter wheels. However, my jigs are currently set up for 2 inch. I can make new jigs if demand is high enough. An adjuster can be installed on the lower tube without removing the beam so that is how we get more drop or we remove the beam and put adjusters top and bottom for even more.

(http://)(http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/42004/2959961140095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2959961140095682735TjBjvl)(http://)

This one has drop spindles and a relocated center on the bottom tube. It also has rear drop plates for a smooth ride.

(http://)(http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/40921/2741123850095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2741123850095682735jfQPxP)(http://)


this is a type 3 two inch drop spindle but it gives the picture of how the jig maintains the ball joint locations

(http://)(http://inlinethumb12.webshots.com/44043/2899771650095682735S600x600Q85.jpg) (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2899771650095682735aNFuUS)(http://)

Slightly off topic.

This is a 4 inch early split bus spindle receiving a 944 spindle point for a non flipped drop and 944 brakes. We used to replace the bay spindle point with a 944 point but the spindle got wider and adversely changed the inclination so we quit doing them that way for now.  From all the different methods we've tried on bay windows, by far the best steering and handling spindle is the 2 inch drop narrowed spindle.

Russel,

That looks quite different from the spindles I bought from you a couple of years ago. I'm guessing the design evolved, wich is a good thing!

My van has had these spindles, adjusters on the beam, the 4 944 discs brake conversion and i'm very happy about the set up!

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/85254/photoa.jpg)

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/85254/3257920748.jpg)

Where is OLD SPEED located?  I am making a trip to Cal in January.

Rick M

Rick , There in the paramount-belflower area.

Rick,

Here is OldSpeed address: Old Speed 7311-A Madison Street Paramount, CA 90723 (562) 531-4190
Ask for Russell, he's the MAN!!!

Thanks Fabien! Happy Birthday too!

Rick M

Type 2 detectives are doing their spindles @ £495 for a limited time only normally I think they are over £600,

Just thought you might want to know,

They annouced it earlier on facebook:

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Type-2-Detectives/71123955968

DKK Fred,

Do you have a bay window that was lowered too? Any shots?

Rick M

I'd be great for surf and skate boards though  ;)

sorry... should have be "It'd be great...."

The one piece sidewindows on the red bus with Gas Burners look pretty good.  You'd be surprised how stable a bus can be. Where the 55 fwy meets the 91fwy as your heading out of Orange toward Riverside, there is a ramp that goes off to the right and back towards LA on the 91.  One year, coming back from the Classic, I was not paying attention and accidentally started to get on the west bound ramp.  At the last minute, with little time to spare, I ended up cutting back into the lanes going toward Riverside.  I actually went down a slight incline getting off the ramp (91 west) to get onto the 91east towards riverside. I was in my 71 bay window.

It was a harrowing experience as I thought I was going to roll the bus for sure but it did not go over.  It was slightly lowered in the front with wider wheels on it. To this day I could not believe how well the bus responded to my complete miscalculation on which fwy to be on.  I think they are more stable than you think when the center of gravity is lowered.  Besides, they are great for swap meet attendance, trips to the beach, sleeping in, etc.  Great road trip vehicles.

While I love driving my street car, the VW Bus is and was the first official MINI-VAN.  They had it right before anyone.

Rick M

DKK Fred,

I could go for an early 2.2 or 2.4 911 with the 3 IDA carbs on it.  That would be a nice motivation for the project. Did your friend have the bus trans or a porsche gearbox?

Rick M