The Cal-look Lounge

Some question i want to know is ,what oil teperatur do you reach with your bug during the hot summer day on a highway .What temperatur is to high for the bug engine .A good friend told me 100 degrees an over will be to much by a full throttle gas drive on the highway for a longer time.What is your experience ,what kind of engine do you drive ,where is your oilcooler located.
Thanks for some answers.

Back when dino oil was used in Porsches, they said never to exceed 110ºC.  With synthetic you can go higher.

at prolonged highway use @ 95-100F ambient my oil runs 180-185F (3800-4200rpm)

with my bug a long time ago,
i also stopped when the oil went over 110°C
But I recently tested a new golf and went over 130 and still didnt get any errors from the car!!
but new cars are a different story

I can cruise all day during the summer at 75-80mph with temps oil temps around 205F.

My top gear is a 0.82 5th with a 3.875 r/p, tires are 195/60-15 and oil is 10W-30. I have all factory tin with only the stock Type 1 oil cooler and remote filter. There is no secondary cooler. I do add a tennis ball on the decklid for August when temps are int he mid 90s and above. The tennis ball keep temps at the 205F even on the hottest days.

BTW... my oil temp gauge reads 40* too high so when it reads 250F it's actually 210F.

This was a day in September that I was cruising home from a show 100 miles away. Oil temps is 180F and oil pressure is 50psi at 3000rpm
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/oldnslow/allair08/187_8749.jpg)

glenn, how did you assess your gauge reads 40F too high?

I used a Ratek infrared thermometer and a Pyrex deep fry thermometer down the dipstick. I tested the oil at a number of locations (bottom of sump, remote oil filter, oil pressure sender) and found it consistently 40* lower than the gauge. The gauge would read 250F and you can just tell the oil was not that hot. I also added a Berg dipstick and check it to make sure it lights at 230F. It's never light the light even when the gauge read 250F. Finally the engine never smelled hot... you know the smell.

BTW, my oil temps used to be higher but I backed the ignition timing from 32* to 30* and switched from 15W-40 to 10W-30 oil which dropped temps 15 degrees.

I use 15w40 oil with add on sump on my engine the stock oil cooler is still installed .A full flow cooler with 360mm is in the left wheelhouse behin the rear wheelinstalled At 8 C Celsius outside my oil turns to 90 C celsius so i got feat about that on hot summer days the temperature will explode to 120 or more ,a good friend told me when the oil reaches over 104 C celsius the engine can get damage on fast highway driving for longer times ,that is why i ask a bigger couple of people about their own features.

So what do you think about my facts shoul i install a second cooler in the front?

90 c=194 F

120c=248 F

i think you should verify the actual temperature.
where's the oil temp sender located?

It is sended by a VDO dipstick

With my old motor, oil temps would normally be around 80 degrees celcius according to my EMPI temp gauge. If it got to 100 (which is diffucult to read on an EMPI gauge), I would start paying close attention.

On a trip to California, I propped open the bottom of the decklid about halfway through the drive (even though it wasn't running hot). Within 15 minutes or so, the oil temp shot up about 10 degrees. I pulled over, closed the decklid fully, and within minutes my oil temp was back to where it was originally. If anything, the ambient temp was going down during this "test", so I'm positive that had nothing to do with it.

At 210 F I turn the external fan on for the cooler. Try to keep temp to 190 F. It takes ages to get it warm.

I use a setrab cooler with fan and 2332 com eliminator heads with JPM Raptor cam.

Why not put a thermal switch inline at the outlet of the cooler. Then it will turn on and off by itself.

As I do not drive a beetle on a daily basis these days, I will relate to some customers that drive long and fast intheir vehichles:

1974 Super beetle. 3,88 R/P 0,89 4rth. 205/55/16 rears. Engine, 2260 type 4 170 hp. DTM cooling + a 9 row cooler along side of the gearbox. Going to Portugal on vacation. cruise speed 140-160 km/h. Oil temp day 30 - 35 degr.C. ambient . Oil 95 - Degr. C. Night 85 Degr. C.

1974 Super Beelte 3,88 R/P 0,93 4rth, 195/60/15 rears. Engine 1745 type 1. 105 hp. Stock late cooling w. velocity ring and 7 row external cooler along side the transmission. Vacation Pescara Italy. Cruise speed 130 - 140 Km/h. Oil temp day 95ish degr. (100 - 105 climbing the Alps playing with the turbodiesels in the left lane) C. Night 80-85 degr. C.

1966 type 1 with conv. decklid, 4,125 R/P 0,82 4rth. 195/60/15 rears. Engine 1904 type 1. 110ish hp. Stock late cooling and a 16 pass cooler w. fan over the tranny. Cruise speed 130 km/h. Oil temps day hovering between 90 and 95 degrees C. Clearly showing that the 16 pass dont work well in that position.

My own 1973 Super Beetle from about 10 years ago. 4,125 R/P 0,89 4rth. 205/55/16 rears. Engine 94 hp 1600 type 1. Stock late cooling with a 13 row front mounted external cooler. I could cruise all day at 130-140 km/h and have 78 - 82 degr. C. in almost any weather, and could go flat out for 20 minutes and not hit 100 C.
T

Hi Glenn.

I did have a sensor/ probe that fitted between the fins of the cooler but it failed. I bought an in line piece of kit but wasnt hapy with the quality when it arrived- it did not have a mounting facility and was bulky.

Having a switch gives me something additional to worry about when driving :D

What do you use and at what temp does the fan come on?

Setrab makes a nice little one. Have one for my car, but not in service yet.

(http://www.lpiracing.com/catalog/switch_200_301_detail.jpg)

http://www.livermoreperformance.com/oil_coolers.html

That's what i'm talking about.

I was going to add a Setrab cooler but backing the timing down to 30* and going to a thinner oil "fixed" my problem.

(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/setrab1.jpg)

Having a switch gives me an additional toggle switch to play with :D

To be honest, it's quite rare for me to need to turn it on.

Matt

So on.At your features about your driving temperatures i can see that my friend is rightwith the 100 degrees c of oil temperatur,that the engine get over this it can be get damaged ,so i take a look at the upcoming days that get much warmer here in germany than today how it works.Maybe the setrab cooling with fan would be a good response for this problem.

I use the Setrab dual fan cooler in my car, in conjunction with stock VW later cooler and stock VW shroud. We will get ambient day time temps of 90F-105F regularly in summer/early autumn. I normally only click fans on once on freeway and oil temp (by gauge, checked mine too with food thermometer, it's accurate) is @ 180F (to keep it there). Without fans on, the temp has climbed to 200-210F. I also have fans fed air from RH torsion tube via a duct and 2 x 50mm Volvo stovepipe hoses.
I've found, even with all the oil cooling equip in the world, if your car is jetted incorrectly for its combination or you run too much or not enough ign advance, you'll run hot. So don't focus just on oil coolers and fans and etc. Idle jetting makes a lot of difference in heating.
Have fun
Jim

avebug/Glenn- thats a great piece of kit- Wish I had seen it when ordering fan- doh!  :o


Will get one ordered up.

Well my jets are right for my engine i drive 48 idf weber on my 2007cc engine ,on normal drive on the highway at 120 km/h it reaches not over 90 degrees C ,but when you start a full throttle run to 150 and more the engine gets hoter an hoter .My idle is at 1050rpm ,what is the relevance with idle and oiltemperatur?

Do you have an oil sump ? I had a big one on my last engine , street eli heads , and had no problems ! Was 2332 with IDA , 30hp cooling and a power pully , smaller diameter. NO full flow , but mercedes/8 oil cooler in front under spare tire place.
I removed the cooling tin at the rear of the engine ,over the gearbox , but had the other all original as VW wanted it ;-) Rear hood is from a convertible. RP is 4,12 with 1,12 4th gear , so it is reving very high in 4th gear , but that is the trick ! High revs -> good cooling ! Had never had probs with temperature , and going very fast with up to 7000---7500 in 4th gear and playing with other cars on the autobahn.
On hot days it reached about 105°C , when driving fast and going full throttle , but when i went on with lower revs , it cooled down very fast , because of the big gene berg oil sump which is in the air stream under the car ! Sender was in the sump at the drain plug.
I think the trick is having as much oil as possible , had a very big oilfilter , too , and use a sump.
Carsten

Did you monitor the cylinderhead temps ?

Sender location in the drain plate easily gives you 15-20 degrees false reading, to the wrong side.

Removing the front plate helps getting air in, but I´ll bet that your cylinderheads were HOT !

T

I think there is a lot of misunderstanding, or misinformation about oil temps, and I'm not really sure why.

I also agree that a cyl head temp gauge is the next necessary piece to the puzzle to make sure the whole combo is not overheating.

The size of engine may be a factor too. Or poor combo (e.g 2332cc with 40idfs, and a 1 1/2 exhaust).

The last part is to make sure the oil used can cope with the temp seen.

I have never used an external oil cooler in the last 20yrs of racing my car, and until this year that combo has always been driven to the race track, raced and driven home.
It has sat at 120C for 1100miles each way to these races, and never had a problem, oil is rated to break down at 150C.

So, when I see something running at 100C all day, I'm asking what is the perceived problem?

Having said all that, even at 100C crankcase temp, 400F on cyl heads, and your cooked.

Greg

But it is the temperature of the oil at the point going into the engine... So , i can measure it at different points , but why ?? I had an all original 50hp engine which easily made 150°c at 3/4 throttle !!! NO problems at all....
Heads maybe got hot , but it works , too !
I had never had any problem on normal cruising speed with abot half throttle or so at 500U/min and 130 km/h..... Oil was aroung 70...80°C at outside aroung 25°c running LUCAS oil , 15W-40 or 50 , can not exavtly remember.
And do not forget one thing , all this VDO and so on gauges are crap in comparison with "real" measurement equipment.... Working at an engine laboratory , i know what i am speaking about ;-)
Seems to be an endless discussion.....

I had never had any problem on normal cruising speed with abot half throttle or so at 500U/min and 130 km/h..... Oil was aroung 70...80°C at outside aroung 25°c running LUCAS oil , 15W-40 or 50 , can not exavtly remember.
[/quote]
Should be 5000 U/min ;D

Does anyone know when there is a problem with oil temp? Seems that some thinks that 100C/212F is a problem?

Normal oil thermostat on watercooled cars are set to open at 105C and you often see 120C. But all these temps are before the cooler, and thats whats important, you can cool your oil to whatever temp you like but its whats comes out of your engine thats important, if you are getting 150C in the sump you are close to breakdown because the oil film is usually wery weak at that temp and above.

I would not like my oil to run as cool as 80C at that temp, in my opinion, the oil is too cold, I'd like it to between 90-105 when at constant speeds.

From my older aircooled motorcycle days...90C is Perfect, above 120C you will have problems. I just use my gauges to see differences developing, not the actual readings. To me, all gauges are crap.

100 is okay. That's the point though that I start keeping a close eye on it as I don't like it to go too far past 100.

Today i decided to install the cooler back to the front ,i bought some new steel coated tubes with bigger diameter than before ,also i nstalled a fram HP1 racing filter with CSP mounting ,and 1.5l addon oilsump is also under the car but installed even half a year ago.A drive with the new oil filter and still the cooler in the back of the car showed on 17 C Celsius outside 105 C Celsius oiltemperature by cruising at 120 km/h.
Today the teperatur was at 11 C Celsius outside and after done work the oil temperatur showed 80 C Celsius constant at full throttle run over 7 km at 4500 rpm.I think this will be fine for the upcoming hot summer days.

So thanks guys for sharing your features about.

Here some pics of my done work.

hi

just a thought...that filter will get hot and generate heat...might be quite effective to have it mounted outside the engine bay

Yes you are right but i think you can loose sight of this heat ,i can touch the filter after fast highway drive.Also an old porsche or 911 have it also inside the engines bay.

i'm sorry, but i don't get the idea of hanging an HP1 in the engine bay, it will hold your +/- 90 degree oil inside so it's bound to generate heat. plus you had to bring out the sawzall to run those hoses through the tin...
why not mount the filter in the conventional place and keep all the plumbing outta sight?

i get your point about the old porsches, but their filters looked neat for instance.

Well, my opinion is to have all things mounted at a central place to locate any coming problems with anything in a center ,if it´s look neat is a question of any observers taste .Also the stock oilcooler is inside so their is no need to mount it outside .Another idea is to have it their an oil change is much more easely for me ,because i have only one leg ,so lying under the car and turn any screws etc. is hard work fior me.io share your opinion that its generate heat but i think it will not bring any problems further.I ever did choose this place for the filter on my old engines in the past too.Never get overheat or anything ,a big question ever was the place for the cooler because every bug i drove was lowered nearly to the ground.But thanks for your attention with this.