The Cal-look Lounge

I would've posted this under the project thread of my car, but I need as many replies as I can get. Some may know that I've spent a number of full-time days with my club mate Jesse and my brother to get the 1915cc engine broken in and to get the car on the road. I won't start about the trouble we've run into already. However, believe you me I didn't name the thread such as I did for nothing...

Anyway, the engine is all done now. Apart from the Tayco linkage that hits the shroud with these manifolds... I need an offset bugpack U-bracket for the LH side. As I suppose those don't exist I'd best try to make one or have one made myself...

(http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9987/img00078201104171656.jpg)

So, we pulled the car out of the garage to check the fuel lines for leaks. Only the 2 lines to the carbs have been altered. And what we found within seconds is that the IDAs would flow over massively with no stopping but the flick of the fuel pump switch. These are Italian IDAs with brass float and 2.00 needles and somewhat of a near correct initial jetting. We checked the float height and verified that it was 24.2mm already. Such as it is suppose to be, right?  ???
24.2mm is what worked for Jesse's Spanish IDAs anyhow. But those have got plastic floats, does that make a difference?

Next, we secured the fuel lines after reassembling the IDAs and the banjos leaked again!! Ali banjos and steel bolts did not make good friends as I cracked the banjo tightening the bolt... This f-ing fuel system has cost a sh*tload but if it's not leaking it's overtightened...

(http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/9333/img00077201104171655.jpg)

Does anyone know the right size for the proper IDA banjo bolt. I'm hoping to find the right combination of steel banjo and banjo bolt at my local hydraulics shop.

PLEASE feel free to chip in.

12mm Banjo....bolt should be a 12mm x 1.5 or 1.25.

Dude you need to properly check the width/thickness of the banjo its self AND the length "neck" on the bolt - I had the same trouble with my new set up the manx and all I had to do is cut off approx 2mm of thread and it all went tight AND sealed  :)

Try not to stress dude This kinda shit is to be expected on such a build - we have ALL been through it  ::) ;) :)

thanks! i'm looking into different/new banjos and bolts might go with the ones Torques.co.uk sell or the stock ones but I'd prefer to get stuff nearby this time around. so that i can check right away and go back etc.

but could the wrong bolt cause the IDAs to flow over? i got my bolts off a fellow lounger who races a yellow vert  ;)  i figured they'd be the right ones...

the float seems to be fine and the needle valve is not stuck... i don't get it. fuel pressure at 3 psi and the whole setup floods with in 3 seconds or so...

last we did was pour in some fuel out of a bottle through the top inlet which is not used normally and the float seemed to be fine. we filled it up all the way and nothing seemed to enter the venturi.

could anyone verify the correct size for Italian IDAs? 12.5mm banjo and M12 x 1.25 bolt?

I take it you are using fibre washers either side of the banjo, yes? You won't get a seal, metal to metal...

Also, check the float on the offending carb does not have a hole in it. It is not at all unknown, even on new carbs.

i used aluminium banjos, steel bolts and steel washers. i'll have to have a look where to get fibre washers.
would you know whether an italian IDA takes a M12x1.25 or M12x1.5 bolt?

thanks on the tip about the float. i'll check it for holes replacements are quite pricey so I'll see about these first. thought the chance of both float being punctured would be quite exceptional. still thanks, i'll check them  :)

banjo washers should be copper or aluminum only if they're metallic.

You can check thread with a normal m12 bolt ;)

Michael

Also, if there is a hole in the float, you can use solder to repair it.

M12 x 1.5

Go for copper washers and replace them EVERYTIME you losen the banjo. Or go stat-o-seal.

tiki, unfortunately i'm not near my car anymore. don't have it at home  ;)
but you're right.

keith, thanks for the tip. perhaps i should go back tomorrow and check!

eric, i used the washers i got from you. so they might have been aluminium.

harry, where do you get yours? and what's stat-o-seal?

Normally used with fittings (731-6 Speedflow#) and larger hex-head banjo's but... (I buy my copper washers at the local hardware shop, not Wickes, Praxis ...) Plus check youre banjo length, if correct you can go even fiber when not overtightening them. My 0.5 cent.

i can bring some some seals next weekend.

That's the bonded seal I was taking about, Died.

Not true dude - I had some original Weber BRASS Banjo's AND Brass bolts that used no kind of washer at all, I was very surprised but they did seal with NO washers  :)

That don't mean it's right!

having slept this over. i need to get some new banjos and perhaps bolts too.

but is there no other (possible) cause for the IDAs to flood than a malfunction float?
i had the feeling the float did not "drown" in the fuel when took off the tops of the carbs. they rose up like a buoy.

what i mean to say, i'll go and check about those floats. but if they appear to be fine, what's the next best part to look at?

It could be as simple a junk in the needle and seat in the inlet valve.

thanks eric, i'll blow it through with air then. i guess you mean that junk is preventing the needle from closing the inlet?

Sorry, Lee, but Weber always supplied fibre washers with their banjo fittings... I have/had NOS ones in the original Weber bags I bought back in the late ’70s.

Check parts #52 and #54 on this illustration:

(http://www.carburetion.com/diags/diagimg/weber48IDA.jpg)

where is part 11 located?
the pump exhaust.

The part your refer to as #11  is located in the bottom of the float chamber, if I remember correctly.

Hmmm very interesting - Mine where weber items but they did not look like that  :-\ They had the weber logo and everything BUT they were designed to work with NO washers  :-\

I might be wrong but they worked fine - I will try to find a pic of them  :)

Keith remembers correctly!  ;)

Remembers what? I've forgotten now...

went to see my clubmate Jeroen today, we sorted out the float height. it was set correctly but didn't close the needle at the 5.5-6mm setting. we set it to approx. 4mm and it seemed to work find with the parts on the work bench.

after that we went for some new hoses, banjos on one side NPT on the other and a set of new 12x1.5 bolts. and with a few copper rings that Jeroen handed me everything was installed soon after I got back home:

(http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/8691/img00083201104181652.jpg)

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/2065/img00085201104181653.jpg)

however, completely in honour of the name of this thread... when i clicked on the fuel pump the engine got soaked AGAIN! this time around it wasn't the float height, or at least i couldn't test it long enough. it appeared one of the banjos wasn't centered and fuel squirts from the fitting:

(http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/1521/img00088201104181736.jpg)

anyway, one can only do so much. i will return to the shop to get a new fitting done. let's hope it'll be a matter of customer service and then once everything is sorted we might finally break in the engine.

(http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/6948/img00082201104181652.jpg)

You make this too easy Keith!  ;D

Motor looks bitching :)

No Zach.... bitching is what your girlfriend does when you've pissed her off...

The motor looks BITCHEN!   ;D

I totally second that!!!!!!! Awesome lookin motor dude  :)

My only concern is that Top Pulley  :-\ is it a chromed original or just a cheap one  ??? I did mention it before dude - I have seen a couple come apart and its not pretty so I would think about fitting an original VW item,
Just my 2 cents bro  :)

P.s here is a pic of those banjo's I was talking about - designed to work with NO washers/seals  :-\ :)

That IDA  schematic would make a cool t-shirt.

X2

cheers fellas. i can only hope my bitchen motor stops bitching today. will get the hose fixed later today and everything should be ready for the break-in, then.

the top pulley is a bugpack unit. i know what you mean Lee! i remember your friend Gav's went straight through the decklid a few miles before EBI 1.
i just really wanted a chrome pulley, i've got a nice black one too but i don't think it will look as nice. the top pulley collocates well with the stacks, generator backing plate and the crank pulley. however, in good time i could look into having an original one nickel-plated, which is what GB pulleys are.

I see you've got it!  ;D

Get an OE VW generator pulley or pay the price later.

Just curious, did you guys blow compressed air into jet wells with floats in place, before you had the flooding issue?

One other note, Died, that carb linkage geometry looks as if you will not get good positive action and full throttle, I think the cross rod will run out of travel before carbs are 100% open, you might consider making your own drop rods with outward bend. You can order lh/rh rods from Midwest Control and matching ball joints. That Tayco type linkage is designed for carbs that open inward and down (like on Skat Traks).

Good to see my old case still alive and kicking 8)

You have a very good point Jim... that set up can actually be dangerous if the arms pass the halfway point and starts to go inwards towards the centre of the engine again... in effect "sticking" open.

And exactly that happend to me when I used my old Berg linkage with IDAs on Race Trim manifolds. It was a very scary moment after crossing the finish line. The car continued to accelerate and I immediately changed the linkage after that event.

Tobi

i wanted to try a set of Berg arms i have lying around.
but if those don't work i'll go with a bugpack centerpull linkage.

Best to get the linkage working exactly as it should, every time, without exception, not just for 100% full throttle but as JHU said, to keep carbs from locking @ WOT.
people have written cars off that weren't careful about how carbs open and close.The factory Weber guide has some good guidelines and diagrams on "how to." Best to keep function, not looks in mind.

So did you figure out why your carbs were spewing fuel over?