The Cal-look Lounge

I currently have a web cam 86c and using the TP lifters.

but....

I now have a choice to either retain the webcam but use the hard weld version.

Or run with the JPM raptor cam.

Opinions?  does he just ship the cam?  the JPM lifters are heavier than my TP's and they will work fine.

Maybe contact JPM...he is very helpful.

Was advised that ceramic lifters are recommended but he felt his the next best option.

Why change the cam ??? Has it gone flat for ya ?

For street/ strip use the 86c is a very hard cam to beat wrt driveability, even for Johannes. Race is something else.
So unles something is wrong with it I would stay with it and what you already have.
T

cam is not flat, in fact not used yet.  But  i am looking at building this new engine with longevity in mind.  Hence why using TP lifters and mating it to a suitable cam, so no chance of flat spots or breaking up.

Hi Lids,

Johannes won´t ship the cam only but you can use a raptor cam with your TP lifters because the lifter radius is compatible. That´s what Johannes confirmed when we asked him.

Cheers,

Tobi

Thanks Tobi, I will get my engine builder to try and contact him.  He made a custom grind for his car, so hoping that might have some influence.

I have installed a Raptor cam in my car and I would recommend the whole set up aluminium pushrods, JPM lifters, Oteva springs and JPM aluminium retainers.

I must say its incredibly smooth and quiet ;D race or street you can't go wrong!!!


Paul

Paul, you have no concerns over bent pushrods?  I have a set of mantons I was going to use.

No none at all so far I have reved to 7,500 with no problems, but I'm using JPM pushrods which are a special grade aluminium.

The Mantons are so heavy also the aluminium pushrods expand better and are therefore leave less valve lash. This all helps maintain your overall lift and keep the whole train soooooooooo much smoother!

If you go for it you will not be disappointed.

All the best Paul

I use Mantons and they are indeed extremely heavy compared to the JPM ones...

Do you use Titanium valves and run single springs also? Or SS valves and double springs? What´s your spring pressure?

I use titainium valves and dual Oteva springs installed at 120lbs seat pressure.

Paul

Rather than start a similar thread, I thought I would tag onto this one.  I've been using the Web 86C and it's been okay, but I also feel the need to step up a notch to more of a race cam, perhaps something similar to FK89, but in the Raptor line up.  I tried the Web 226 which was not a good cam at all, and the Web 251, but it appears to have been ground incorrectly (I think their quality control has perhaps gone downhill).

Any feedback on the following Raptor cams and your 1/4-mile results in a heavy Beetle?  My engine is a 2332 cc, IDA's, 1.75" exhaust, JPM MS230 heads.  Since I have the JPM heads, I might as well match them to a Raptor cam:

JPM00206:  280 degrees, 10.5 mm lift
JPM00406:  282 degrees, 10.7 mm lift

Thanks!

its not just the cam, they come with followers, and i would also see if i could afford the matching pushrods!  this lot will set you back £1k

I have come across an unprecise ground Web cam once before. It happens. But they swopped it for me, no problems. I have seen lots of Engle´s that are out by as much as 4 degrees. But for some reason we never hear about those (?)

If you want to be able to drive it on the street, I would choose the milder one of the Raptors - Remember, your CR must come up too.

T

I'd just send an email or call Johannes about the cam choice he'd recomend.

My cam has more duration & lift than the old FK89, however it's so much smoother you would never know until you hit the loud peddle  ;D

Heyden Mizon has one installed in his street bug perhaps he can put up some feedback as he's on the CLF!

All the best Paul

What are TP lifters?  ??? ???
I can usually figure out what you're discussing but this one has eluded me 8)
It obviously is because Eurospeak is not my native tongue...

Thanx in advance

Tomas or is it Torsten Pieder or something like that, lifters.
German lifters.

Thanks for the feedback, Paul...I appreciate the first-hand feedback.

I will definitely contact Johannes (I bought the MS230 heads from him), but I also wanted to hear some experiences from other racers as well :)

neil i have ordered one (well JC @ stateside has done it for me) I was going to run a webcam 86C but have gone this route instead.  So have asked for something similar.

Mike

I  have the MS230 heads on my engine and also use his cam. very very pleased. Just opened the engine after the season and everything look perfect Cam wise.

Thank you

Thorsten Pieper

 Thorsten only made 26mm so I had him make the 28mm ones for me a couple of years ago. It took some time to get them done but they are the best. They are also only 56grams. I am the importer for them here in the US. I have them in a few superstock cars, turbo cars and street cars. No issues at all. They have been pulled out and re-used with many different cam grinds. They are not cheap but well worth the investment.

Here is a few pics. (http://)(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/shag55/08912b5e.jpg)
(http://)(http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll186/shag55/ffde9a15.jpg)

Raptor cams may well be expensive, but they are worth every penny in my book. I gained 70 hp with just the cam change (much better harmonics eliminating previous valve float). Having stripped the motor after 3 race meets to inspect parts, the cam and JPM lifters are in perfect shape. Absolutely mint, and for the first time ever, my valve springs all still have their full pressures. With my previous Scat cam the valve springs used to get so hammered, they would lose approximately a third to a half of their poundage - especially the exhaust valve springs. :o

You won't regret buying JPM  8)

JPM lalso offer roller cam?

Yes, I have JPM roller cam in my engine. I had my own cam blank which he grinded.

Who needs a roller cam ? May be if you want to break any records  :)

Udo

does he have a website?

http://www.jpmotorsports.se/home

thanks lids

Smoother, faster, more drivable.

Happy as someone in the driving seat , had a great cal look year with plenty of road time and some track too.

Hi I going to hijack this for a second,

how many valve clearance do you guys have with aluminium pushrods?

Regards Edgar

Loose 0

Have you found that you're able to run tighter valve to piston clearances with the Raptor cams?

really? it not .006" like the    2024-T3  aluminum pushrods ?

Yes. After bending 4 HD Manton pushrods at a dyno session I changed to JPM double tapered alu pushrods and the result is a much quieter valve train. On top of that I have not needed to adjust the valve clearance during the entire race season. A win-win situation if you ask me.

Ok thank you.
 is not a lot,  :o

Regards Edgar

Old thread but...

Pushrod discussion here we come.

As you can read i have a set of mantons, but have been toying with the idea of aluminium.

My latest thought are Smith Borthers.  Any comments?

I just changed my Mantons for alu JPM pushrods and will never go back. Incredible weight difference but most of all complete lack of valvetrain noise, even when very hot!

YES!
They are of OUTSTANDING design and quality!
 ;)
TxT

Velkommen etter  :)

try to see how much pressure JPM's aluminum pushrods can handle!!! :o I have a late engine project going on ( desperately hoping to be ready for SCC!  :-\)
 I'm going to use Johannes's pushrods. And I have a question for all of you who already run them.... What pushrod tubes do you use?

cheers.

And another question. At the moment I have a Webcam 86c, TP 55 gram tool steel lifters, Jaycee pushrods and dual springs. If I upgrade to JPM pushrods can I also use the single springs or are they only for raptor cams?

Jesse, that would be a no.

T

K800's no problem. But be aware, they do not work with fancy smancy spring type pushrods like JayCee. They are way to fat and will rub. Much better of using ordinary pushrods or WBX style.

Hey BeetleBug.

You are absolutely right, K800 springs will be no problem! ;D
 And I'm aware of the  "space" problem ..... I bought ordinary "wide" pushrods tubes, but what I can't figure out... If you take a set of Manton p....... and say, use it with a set of Jaycee tubes ..... In my case, they had touched the side of the tube, just a bit ..... And if you hold them up against the new aluminum pushrods, and the new "wide" tubes, then I'm short of 0.5 mm "air"??!...

I have a question:  What is the O.D. on the JPM aluminum pushrods?  I have Head's Up Performance pushrod tubes with 7/16 pushrods with no rubbing.

Hi There!

The PRs are 283.5mm uncut, ends are 10mm long.
Diameter is 9-12-9mm.
Material is 7075, machined from a 15mm solide bar.
My recommendation is std WBX telescope tubes.

Best regards
Johannes Persson

Hi all,
answer from the manufacturer himself , what else !  :)
Johannes ,could you confirm the valve clearance with your 7075 PRs ? "0" loose, right?
i know 7075 is approx twice stiffer than 2024-T3 PRs like the Smith Brother model but want to be sure
thanks for all your innovative work/parts
Eddy

Hi all, answer from the Manufacturer himself, what else!  :)

 you're right ED2.4!
 Thanks for your advice Johannes!!!

Hi ED2.4,

Valve lash has to be set after what engine case( Mag or Alu) and ramp length(height) on cam.
Mag case and old cam design, zero hard.
Mag case with new cam design like Raptor, zero loose.
Alu case and old cam design, zero loose.
Alu case with new cam design like Raptor, zero loose to 0.004".

About K800 and my PRs, I have done some tests with the combination and so far no problem.
With a newer design of the valvetrain the K800s are in most cases not necessary.
I have just finished an drag race engine(2332cc) with 17mm valve lift, engine pulls easily to over 9000rpm and has full valve control.
The valvetrain is Raptor cam, Shubeck lifters, 7075PR, Alumec retainers, OTEVA75 springs std size and Ti valves 48x38mm.

Best regards
Johannes Persson

By the way Johannes, can I buy some 0.5 and 0.3 mm shims?!  perhaps tomorrow  :o ;D

how do you make a waterboxer pr tube fit a type one style case?

Turn it round the other way,big end at head :) and just use type 1 seals and stretch it over the big end

I have used them for a long while,work really well,just no use on a narrow engine,the real benifit of the  fancy smancy spring type pushrods like JayCee   ;D is when you got to 6 stud or equal length studs under the valve cover area as you need to put the tubes in after the heads are torqued up

cheers richie

Thank you Johannes  :)
BR
Eddy

Are there any of you fellow lounger that can give me an inside measurement, of one of the fancy P.T. In its center..... please!  :)
I am about to assemble my engine again this week... And it would be cool to know what could be done..... BEFORE I reassemble it ::)

(http://www.jpmotorsports.se/var/ag/12729/175867-retainers2.jpg)

whats the diff between the alumec and titan?

titan is lighter?

Alu is lighter.

That is a very generalized question and answer.
Maybe it could apply to the same style of retainer for a specific manufacturer.
Aluminium has lower density than titanium but you need a lot thicker design to do the the same work.

Now I have a very small and extremly light titanium retainer for my spring.

If we involve longevity, I know we are in to even another consideration and I know very well my preference.
Now an Alumec of 7075-T6 retainer with a quality anodize will be OK but still I doubt close to steel or titanium.

My point, I think you need to involve design as comparative factor.
Do not choose by weight only.

Agreed!

Very true Frallan. Of the retainers that JPM supply, alu is the one with less weight as far as I know.

Just as an example:

Ti retainer and single spring good for 9000 rpm on a steel 50 mm valve with 7 mm stem.
The retainer weighs 3 grams.

(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s207/Frallan2/3gram2.jpg)
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s207/Frallan2/3gram.jpg)

street driving, titanium is more suitable i suppose.

 

Aluminum is lighter but in the long run the Taitanium is better. Also the design makes a difference.
They also have Taitanium pushrods!

Hi There,

I just want to clarify one thing.
Alumec should not be mixed with 7075, Alumec is far stronger than 7075 but with the same density as 7075.
7075 is also known as Dural aluminum.

The wear of the retainer is in proportion to: spring pressure, valve lift and rpm.
If you are running a light valve train and therefor less spring pressure the life span of Alumec retainer is very long.


Best Regards
Johannes Persson

Thanks Johannes!
That kind of just proves my point even more.
I am not trying to say that a steel, titanium or different alumnium retainer is better than another.

What weighs the least is a generalized question. Could be OK if it is only for curiousity but not if it is for the information of choice.

Design, material, intended purpose and limits, budget, what are the other components it will work with in combination and so on.
Do not choose components without having your full spectra of usage clear to you, to begin with.

Furthermore you point out that material are also very different in same category. A specific steel or alumnium can also behave very different depending on heat treatment.
A steel retainer can be stock stamped cheap steel or a high tensile nice radius macined and tempered quality steel.  They both work very well if used for their designed and chosen purpose.

Johannes, I was re-reading my post and I know what you got caught on now. The spelling is wrong.
The word is not "of", it is "or".
Sorry for that confusion.

So what I am saying is that I was not mixing the two materials.
In fact I would like to add that 7075 (nor any other heat treated or tempered material) should never be discussed in isolation. It should always be folllowed by its treated form.
A 7075-T3 or 7075-T6 are also very different materials in terms how they behave.
I have never worked myself with Alumec but I remember very well maybe 15 years ago talking to Per Bengtsson and he praised it like a new religion.