The Cal-look Lounge

From cold my 2276 keeps blowing oil filters (10:1 comp, 30mm oil pump, 10/40 oil) the oil pressure is about 40psi, would a pressure releif oil pump cover do it or would a tempreture based valve be better on the flow/return, so to by pass the filter plus cooler, till warm enough? heard they could be temprimental?

When warm (I bypassed everything and just looped the oil pump) it ran up fine, then while still warm reconnected filter and cooler adn had no problems.

Any experenices or veiws would be great.

So far its destroyed 4 fram oil filters, one faulty oil cooler, and around £150 worth oil on the garage floor! so im nearly done with the whole project! :'(

Cheers ???

Take a good look at your rear relief spring and piston ....  ;)

Regards
Erich

Agree with above,
did you build the motor yourself? I was advised not to run a 30mm pump on my 2276.

Would a pressure relief oil pump cover help?

Lee

Well why would it be fine without the filter etc linked in? if the case relief valve was a problem, wouldnt it of blown the standard oil cooler on top of the case when i bypassed everything?

cheers for the quick responses.

No, but the guy who built it is sorting me out with a pressure releif pump cover, but while i was waiting would just ask around, im sure he'll sort it, but cant hurt to get other opinions.

cheers

I had this problem

You need to loose the oil cooler for the winter or as you say a relief pump cover

There's just too much oil to move from cold when the temps start dropping 

regards Ron

Pressure relief valve cover would do the trick. Although 40psi doesn't seem to be that high?

Thats what i thought, thats why i thought about a temp valve. closed when the oil temps low (bypasses the filter plus cooler) opens when it warms up and flows through the fliter etc.

 ??? :-\

did you just bypass the filter and cooler then? just linked the pump round to its self?

The pressure relief cover will do the trick. I use them on all the motors I build, and I use the Berg 26mm pump, that should be sufficient. Why 30mm? Anyway, the Berg covers clicks off around 60lbs. When I worked there with Andy (RIP), he had a tester that would test these covers, and 60lbs is when it would bypass. They work.

Ted

I've run 30 mm pumps plenty of times , especially if the car has a large external cooler .

I always run a 30 mm pump with a relief cover , and never blown a filter . Did on the first engine I was involved with 16 years ago , I hadn't built it , but was fitting it . It had a 30 mm Melling pump , and blew several filter oil rings out . I spoke to John Maher , he said fit a relief cover , which i did , no more problems .

that 40 psi is probably the case pressure , after the rear ( flywheel ) control valve has done it's job . The pressure at the pump is probably way over that .

why 10/40 oil?

not really directly related, but 2 weeks back i just had a stock 1584cc rebuilt, std std case, std bearings, new P/C, stock pump, i ran 5W/30. i live in the tropics and i dint have any low oil pressure issues.

I'm sure the pressure releif valve will do the trick then (fingers crossed), very true Peter that Is the case pressure not pump pressure, never though off that, yes I do have. Large oil cooler 19 row I think.

Cheers

Just for the record - fram oil filter can take much more then 100psi

Just for the record,  what fram filter are you using?  Are you sure the oil filter adapter is hooked up (in/out) right?

Dump the 10W-40 and use 5W-30.  Your engine is telling you your oil is too thick.
Also, buy a better filter than the lousy Fram.  That's the worst choice you could ever make.

Good point Taylor.....!

The only reason I say that is that if you run the filter backwards it will still pass oil but will create back pressure,  this might explain why when the oil hits the sending unit it only shows 40psi. Just thinking out loud.
Taylor

I agree on all counts.

IMO there's little reason to run an oil thicker than 30w (or 10-30) in a well-built engine. Someone's gonna stone me for heresy but I say go even lower viscosity. A 30mm pump in a VW is largely overkill so take advantage of it by using a good 0-20 synthetic. Just watch the oil pressure. The 10psi per 1,000rpm rule of thumb has served me well for years. Listen to the engine. Let it tell you what it wants. You won't hurt an engine in a few miles if the pressure drops a bit below that 10-1,000 rule of thumb. Just don't beat on it if it starts to drop to dangerous levels (it won't).

And while there's nothing wrong with a pressure-relief pump cover (that others have brought up) I believe they're largely unnecessary in almost all applications. The VW engine already has a pressure relief. If you're blowing up coolers and filters your engine is telling you that its oiling system can't accommodate the volume and/or viscosity of the oil. In those cases you're wasting power driving too much pump or too thick of oil.

[/soapbox]

I don't fully agree with the above.   The oil suggestions are good but the original post says he is blowing them off with 40psi. That doesn't make any sense,  he has something non actual oil going on.  He could pit 5wt. In it and rev it to 4000 rpm and blow it off.

Damned accelerated culture making me overlook details!  ::)

That changes things. Thanks for tenderly letting me know I screwed up. :)

Are you SURE the pressure sender matches the gauge? For example, VDO makes an 80-psi gauge and a 150-psi gauge. Each has its own sender: 360 006 for the 80 gauge and 360 023 for the 150 gauge (gauge with idiot light; single-pole gauges have slightly different numbers). I'm sort of guessing here, but if you're using a sender for a 150 gauge on an 80 gauge and it reads half, it stands to reason the engine is making 75psi (that's half on a 150 after all). You get the point.

Time for a more precise diagnosis. First off, if you don't already have one get a trusty mechanical gauge and eliminate variables. Try the factory sender location first. Then try the pump outlet if you can. If it's reading 40psi at the sender fitting but 80 at the pump outlet you'll know there's a restriction between the two locations.

On a chilly Las Vegas morning in 1992 I blew apart a new Mesa cooler and ballooned a filter (can't remember brand) with a 30mm pump and 20-50 oil (before I saw the light). Bear in mind I was running stock relief springs. The cooler blew up in my driveway almost instantly after the engine lit. When cold 20-50 oil is only 20 weight and that's not much thicker than 10 weight. That said, you're in the same boat I was. if I were a bettin' man I'd wager that your engine is making a lot more than 40psi.

My $.02 says make damn sure your using stock relief springs and stock relief pistons in the proper holes.  Guys who seem to have the problems always overlook something... it seldom is the oil pump.  My favorite story is about an engine I built long ago for the sand.  I'd had Autocraft do me an engine case with gussets welded and oil passages drilled and tapped for pipe plugs.  One of those plugs was tapped a little too much and "kissed" the pressure relief valve by the crank pulley.  After about ten minutes of driving on a beautiful sunny day in the dunes, I smelled oil burning on my freshly chromed exhaust.  The oil filter had blown up (one of those crumby HP1's)... luckily I had a sump and limped back to camp.  Went right over to the store and bought a couple more oil filters and a number of cans of oil... blew the first one off immediately before pausing to think about what was happening.  I decided to check the reliefs.  The flywheel end fell right out in the sand... the other wouldn't budge until I twisted that pipe plug slightly!  My point here is you don't need a lot of fancy stuff to get it right.  I've always used HP1 Fram filters, 30 weight oil and whatever oil pump I feel like with no problem other then one I OVERLOOKED.

He doesn't have "only 40psi".  He's got way more pressure than that if the filter is popping.
There are 2 problems here.  Defective gauge not showing the true pressure, and wrong oil blowing filters. 
And using a junk filter.

I took off the oil cooler in the cold temps and it did ok

no more blown filters and in the colder months. why do you need the cooler anyway ?

try using as csp or jaycee oil filter mount and reusable filter both top quality parts

my 2 c

I've been running the Geers re-usable oil filter and 5W30 or 5W40 oil for several years.  I don't drive much in the winter anymore, but I do have to fire up the engine at temperatures just above freezing:

http://www.geersengineering.com/OilFilter.htm

pressure relief cover fitted, dropped to 25psi on tick over (idle) and no blown filters as of yet, but not properly run up yet, keeping my fingers crossed  :-\

still same oil?

From what part of the filter does it blow up?
If it's the rubber seal popping out, it could be because of el-cheapo filter stand - we had the same kind on problem several times when our china-made shiny filter stand had its flange a little bit tilted and no amount of tightening the filter could solve that problem. When the stand was changed to a better quality, we neved have had that kind of problem anymore.

Yeh still 10/40, with a good quality filter

Okay, please don't take the following the wrong way because I'm really being sincere.

I can't help but think that something is wrong in the system. There's a spring in the wrong hole or maybe they're too stiff or maybe a relief piston is stuck. Maybe it's a pump that's too big for an application or as someone else mentioned maybe even an improperly machined filter adapter. Are you also running a blockoff plate over the cooler ports in the case? There's something else going on. Engines just don't blow things apart for no reason.

And while it may address the symptoms the pressure-relief cover may just be masking the cause. It might get the pressure right in that part of the system but if there's an obstruction somewhere in the case the chances are good that a bigger, more expensive part down the line will fail.

People successfully built these engines for years--decades, even--before relief covers existed. In 25 years I've blown up only one oil-system component and I only run plain iron covers. That one failure was understandable (huge pump and thick oil on a cold morning). I fixed those issues and enjoyed great oil pressure for years after.

Don't take it that I'm down on those pump covers or any other part in your system. I just think that you should take the opportunity to discover whether or not your engine has a more pressing issue.

Peach

what sort of oil lines do you have, are they the crimped style ones you see on a digger /excavator ??

When I encountered this problem years ago , as I said before , the relief cover solved it . The relief spring in the case ( pulley end ) will stop the doghouse cooler blowing , although I have heard of other people having this problem ( personally I've never had the problem ) . But the case relief valve wont help the sudden pulse of thicker cold oil pressure at the filter , only 16" oil line distance from the pump . I put an Autometer oil pressure sender in a fitting at the oil filter bracket before , and the pressure at the filter bracket pinned the gauge past 150 psi easily .

Also , I don't care what burst pressure the Frams are supposed to have , but the oil " O " ring , will give out and get pushed out way lower than the canister burst pressure . In fact I tried a normal MANN , Golf GTI Mk2 oil filter ( Part No W719/5 ) , and I found this was way less likely to have blow the " O " ring out .

I normally run 15w40 oil in the summer , and 10w40 oil in the winter . I have thought about going down to a 5w30 oil , but had to move cars around here in a snow covered industrial state yard , in the middle of winter , the last few years , and haven't blown any oil lines or filters or coolers .

I also always use properly crimped hydraulic hose end fittings .

 

x2 install it...
all OEM use pressure relief systems direct in/at the pump. And that system costs money so it is there for "some" reason!
With an 30mm /blue printed pump (driving in the cold months) I would always use a relief cover to keep the filter save for cold starts.
The pressure is caused by the oil flow and that is everytime the same, even when the regulator piston opens wide... The pressure drop over the filter is high especially when oil is thick.Keep that in mind.
I always use a MK2 Diesel oil filter (OC47 I think) which has a simple over pressure vent inside which bypasses the filter element.
Have fun!

No, the pressure is caused by the LACK of flow.
The thick tar you are using can't get through the passages, so the oil volume backs up against the pump.  Since the pump keeps delivering oil, the pressure goes way up.
Use the proper thin oil, you get lots of flow without the pressure.