The Cal-look Lounge

I was wondering if someone can fill me in on how the gene berg pressure relief pump cover works. It looks like it does not go anywhere, so I wasn't sure how it works.

it has valve with a spring which allows the oil to return to the low pressure side of the pump

yep that is what it does, instead of sucking in oil from the sump it reuses the oil in the pump.

CSP also has the same version.

    Controlled internal bleeding, for lack of a better term

I have one on my motor, and have never had any issues with it.  I have however, had people scoff at it, saying they were junk, and get sticky, not doing their job, etc...  Any input on that??  Like I said, I haven't had any issues what so ever.  The motor is getting split open this week, so I'll have a chance to really look closely.  Thanks, Eric

So I take it this is not a "must" on big motors. I was thinking of getting one, but not sure if it's worth it.

I don't believe so.

     Like the VW bypass pistons and bores in the case, the ball ,spring and bore in the bypass covers are in fact valves, subject to sticking if,( shavings, dirt or crap) gets in them . So when building or rebuilding engines( properly) make sure everything is in fact taken apart and (cleaned!!! ), its one of the "easiest" way  to avoid a problem and the easiest to overlook.. IMO.    Bypass covers are not a must have , but IMO they are insurance and they (do work).     to each his own     :)         KG

I have a relief cover on my motor,Its only been on there about 20 yrs or so. We will have to wait & see if it really works. Is it absolutley needed ? probably not.

Don't want to rush to conclusions  ;D

The pressure relief cover is exactly what it says, at about 60PSI it clicks open to relief pressure so you don't blow filters lines and so on. When I worked at Bergs, Andy, who is now passed away, use to test these covers and did exactly that @ 60PSI they would click off, (relieve pressure). I use them on all my motors, before, I would get excessive oil pressure, then I switched to these covers, problem solved. Alot of people don't run them and don't have pressure problems, just depends I guess, every motor is different. You can try a plain cover and see what happens, if you see a change (higher pressure) there ya go.

Ted

A friend of mine had his stick in the bypass position twice, leaving him with a tow each time.  Guess how he solved that problem?

     Did he bother removing the plug, spring, check ball, and piece of crap that caused it stick open?   those covers are not rocket science , two moving parts, simple really. 

Yes, he did that.

IMO, if you build your engine properly and use the right oil, you won't be blowing filters, so you don't need a relief cover.  
Less parts cause less problems.

Schwimmer, 

Love your response.  Was a classic. 

Rick M

It appears to be one of those parts that has its role/use, but is not necessarily a "necessity" or must have in every application.  My last 1776 had one of those on it, never had any issues, but it was at best a limited use car, mostly warm weather, and I only put 5K miles on the engine before selling it to fund my current 2017 build.  Never had any failures, or anything to that effect, but my new 2.0 liter build will run a standard (non pressure relief cover). 

Looks like a will just order a standard cover. This car won't get driven very much and will only be nice weather. Thanks for all the input guys!

why wouldnt you spend a few extra dollars for a little insurance ?

It depends on the oil pump, doesn't it? Other factors as well, but this should be the most important one, the way I see it.
I have berg cover, because I have 30mm oil pump and I have 30mm oil pump because this was the only one I have in hand while assembling my engine.
I have no problems (none I know of) with the cover (although I have roughly 10 times less experience with it then Bill) but it doesn't change the fact that the needle on my oil pressure gage goes all the way to max on anything but very low revs when oil is cold.

I have one........I thought Berg was the end all, be all...........Right?   ;D

I think the saying is, "Buy the Best and Cry Once!" ... but then my memory is shorter than my Peter ;)

I've run both and had problems with niether.
I always have used the relief covers with 30mm pumps. Quoting GBE bible catalog, "Mandatory with GB 234(A) pumps", but usually regular covers with 25/26mm pumps.
Never had one stick or fail ... ?

TxT

I actually ran one with a 30mm Berg/Shedeck pump and blew an oil filter clear off and into the weeds on the side of the road once.   :P  Seriously. 

That's why you ran that dual filter setup, right? Blow one off and you still have a spare!  ;D

I don't use roofing tar for oil, so my pressure never goes above 60psi (according to the gauge).  If the pressure doesn't exceed 60psi, what value is the bypass valve?

Fail safe.  Cold morning, leaving for work.  It happens.

You know. This is going on a full show car, so it won't be driven much but only in the summer here and there. But seeing how this car has slowly turned into a why not build, I will save a few more pennies for the " insurance" cover!

One other 'ritual' I follow that may make a minor difference ...
Whether hot or cold weather & upon start up, I never allow the engine to rev over 3000 until oil temp is over 150*.
My gauge shoots all the way right and pegs 70psi @ idle when cold; simmers down to normal with temperature.
TxT


No, I don't run 20w50. ;)

texas tom, what pressure gauge you running?  i have a crap vdo pressure gauge that doesnt give any accurate readings. it goes to about 30K when cold and drops to zero at hot idle. i know there is nothing wrong with the engine because the oil light doesnt light up at all.

I also try to warm it up, and keep the R's down until the temps come up.  Oil weight choice does have a lot to do with it. 

 :D  Actually, I didn't think I was running roofing tar.  The engine had 40wt in it at the time and was fully warmed up on a warm day.  I was almost home, got on it through 2nd and the oil light came on.  Shut it down and pulled over.  I simply followed the "trail" back to the "point of impact."  Never did find the filter.   ::)

Pupjoint,
I run a VDO as well, but have it speced out at NASA every month! ;)
Be nice to it and it'll be nice to you.
TxT

 I had a Berg bypass cover but was concerned about oil foaming in the pump as it recycled . I replaced it with a " JayCee powerflow oil system ". Any excess pressure is bled off through a tube back to the case. Here is a link to his products, part is about half way down the page,


http://www.jayceevw.com/products

               Mike McCarthy

   Air being the cause of ( oil foaming ) clearly has "nothing"to do with" any kind" of pump cover , air can only come from a leak in the oil pickup prior to the oil pump , so your pump cover statement is factually incorrect !!!     I'm still waiting for someone to give a" real reason"other then crap in the oil , for a Berg bypass cover failing ,   but I'm not holding my breath.      ROOFING TAR WITH GRAVEL perhaps.     ;D 

Why do you need a reason?  It is a fact that they have gotten stuck in the bypass position.

The diameter of the ball is always going to be almost exactly the same size every time to within tenths of a thou.  The surface finish of the ball is extremely good, so IMO, it' can't be the fault of the ball.
This leaves the bore.  The diameter of that machined bore is going to vary during a production run, and from run to run.  Maybe the one my friend had was on the small side such that the clearance between the ball and the bore was smaller than many others.  This would mean a smaller piece of grit could cause it to hang up.
Maybe the surface finish of the bore contributes too.

    Because Bruce , there are "reasons" for failures, sounds like you have it all figured out , doesn't it ? same size balls, ball should move freely in its bore, measure both , do the math, if you think its the finish in the bore , polish it, Like I said before ,they're not rocket science, Bruce, don't let a simple part like this kick your ass, I'm confident you can figure it out.   I am, believe it or not,trying to be of help to you and your friend.  The ball only seals at the bottom of its bore ,ie.the seat, so if you polish the bore, the only thing of real concern is the seat.  I noticed that you used the word" grit" in your last post, so I think you might be on to something , ;D  I agree, I also think we would agree" grit"  has no business in well filtered oil , or performance engines .  Hope this helps.

Hehe. This always stirs up the opinions. I have to say that I stopped using the Berg units about 10 years ago, due to exactly that of what Bruce describes, on 2 different engines. And then on a third I couldnt get pressure at idle and found that the ball seat was not machined correct. Enough of that. I really think they used to be good quality.
That was also when I really began to try and figure out how much "oil pump" is really needed and ditto the viscosity needed. Let me put it this way, - my use of 30 mm oil pumps have decreased to Ally cases and left lane engines with front mounted coolers, and a few race engines using the new style full flow system. (I´m not absolutely sure it is needed, but it is recommended and I for one have not pushed the limit) When I have to use these relief covers I use the CSP. So far so good  ::)

On the other hand. If you are determined to use large Melling pumps etc. its most likely a good insurance against blown filters and hoses.

T

I don't need to figure it out.  I have 100% prevented this problem by not using it.  No one using that cover can make that claim.
That pump cover is a solution to a problem I don't have.
If the pump cover works for you, keep using it.

So, I've heard of maybe 10 people (and that's a fat guesstimate) that have had an issue.  I don't know of any single item where someone hasn't had an issue with some part of it.  I'll keep mine.

For those of us that don't live by the Arctic circle this is what we have to use. It has more dead dinosaurs than regular oil so the cam won't go flat. :D 2 pages about a pump cover, thats pretty funny.