The Cal-look Lounge

Any input would be welcome....

I was gonna run that size on the early 6" alloys that I'm using, but ended up going with a 65% profile instead. Hankook was the brand I chose. Tire Rack or any decent brick & mortar tire store will be more than happy to let you compare the different heights/widths that you're after. My local store (Rolling Tires) in Bellflower did that and when I saw how tall those 70% tires were, I changed my mind. To each their own.

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What front tire are you going to using? Maybe you can find a matching tread.

Vredestein Sprint Classic 205-70 and 155-15. Modern technology in a retro wrapping.

-BB-

Welcome back from BFE. 

Short axle's, 311 drums, erco 6's and a 6x26 slick with a 1 inch trans raise. I considered changing to a 215/65 radial, but settled on 6x26 M&H dots. Better suites
the cars unpleasant manners.

Fixed it ;)

Michelin XWX

(http://onlyoldiesgarage.com/xcart/images/P/michelin-xwx-photog1-02.jpg)

Michelin XWX on 6' Fuchs  ;)

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/98123/1333652446.jpg)

those are like 200 a pop !  :o :o

Or for 140€ a pair, you can afford Federal SS731, low quality but a nice look with a smooth side. (the white lettering is home made)

(http://a1.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/247185_2131960340903_1302868410_2624944_2752601_n.jpg)

Bridgestone Dueler HT's Tis as good tyre!

+1 if you get the ones with a higher speed rating you can flip them on the rim and have a nice smooth sidewall.

(http://www.cal-look.nl/Gallery/albums/userpics/10013/mijn_kever_068.JPG)

Here's my problem.... Front tires are Smart Car Continentals on 4.5 DDS, and rears have short axles, but T3 drums.... I'm running a DDS 6" wheel and with DOT M&Hs, they stick way out... I just put the rear fenders on and it looks like crap. The DDS wheel offset is not cool with those T3 drums. So, back to the drawing board.

Phil, I love the way this looks, but with my DDS' offset, no-cigar..

if that is the case, how about good ol' 165r15? ;D
yes that would mean you'd run wider tyres up front, but that fact surprised me a lot already. aren't those much too square-looking on a 4.5" DDS?

Have you thought about a 75 205 15 ? these were Avon's
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/49-rag/IMG_4152.jpg)
Their taller than a 70 mine were 26" , but you won't suffer from the bulge .
I would normally suggest XWX 70 which i now run but that would sit the same as a DOT M/H
(http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff84/49-rag/DSC00254.jpg)
my 2 cents  :-\

glenn, you are a rubber fetishist! have you considered seeking the necessary aid on that matter?
j/k the words avon and michelin xwx merely produced mucho envy on my part... :-P

Died's you know me too well my friend  ;D
You could just buy these old Italian wheels , grab the tyres and punt the wheels on  ;) :D
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150772133416?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_841wt_1089

I just had to spring for new rubber on the back of my rig after running over a piece of metal the other day.  Why is it that a tire NEVER punctures in a spot that can be patched?? >:(  I chose Michelin Pilot Exalto 205/65R15.  These have served me very well on the '99 Passat so decided to try them on the back end of the '67.  Short axles, Type III drums, and Flat4  5" wide BRMs.  Like DKK FRED pointed out, I don't care for the sluggishness of the taller 70 series tires.  Good luck, Deano!

Thanks Sarge, what were your former rear tires?

Pirelli P6000's in the same 205/65 size... still had a third left to go, too. :(

205/65
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/IMG_1968.jpg)

205/70
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/0407091919-01.jpg)

215/65 M&H Dot's
(http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a6/Hotrodvw/BOR%20Vacation%20May%202010/dsc_4305wtmk.jpg)

Narrow disc brakes?

Short axles, CB Wide 5 discs.

Cheap and nice tires, they also have 185R15 for the rear.

Yes, a little of both. I have some new 6" aluminum wheels from B&R Buggies that have a better offset, so once I get those ready to mount, I want to get some 205s and try that combination. After seeing all the 205/65s, I may go with that size, instead of the 70 series. The bad part is the DDS rear wheels will not make the program... Damn.

My ancient pirelli's are also 205/65 15 and I have M&H DOT's 215/65 15 mounted on 6" CMS wheels. I like the meaty look of my 215's more than the pirelli's but the rims they are on have proper backspacing. Have you thought of trying the 215's on the other wheels you have?  Also I'd love to see some shots of your progress on the '67.

How much are the DDS sticking out the fender?

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For my current project, mine are Firestone F560 in 205 70 15.
Not mounted on wheels yet

Lucky you ! Really nice tires but not sold any more in France...  :-\

Wa-bout a 205-65-15 Michelin?

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z148/2manytoys_photo/dspokeonragg.jpg)


15x7 D spoke with short axles.

Thanks Flow  ;)

At the risk of being labeled a heretic...I'd bet a good tin knocker could make your fenders fit over those wheels  ;)

Those are cool. The only matching 145 and 205/70 tires you can get.

Love the Michelin look, but check out the offset on those Ds! No problem with 7" rims.

Perhaps some creative machine work on the brakes and axles instead of dropping the DDS rims ?

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1090010
Problem solved! ;D

In all seriousness, how much are they sticking out?

Got lucky with the offset, tuck nice under the fender and the straight wall design on the Michelin allows me to run the adjustable spring plate. Fronts are 5.5's wide

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z148/2manytoys_photo/ovalragdspokenicefit.jpg)

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z148/2manytoys_photo/nickspatrick.jpg)

Okay, gang here are the grim photos...

A. I won't widen the rear (NOS!) fenders
B. I already have short axles
C. I could change the brakes...
D. I could change the wheels...
E. I could change the tires (215 DOTs)
F. I could and may cut my wrists.

C. use the 67 brakes (to the early guys they were high tech)  ;D with using dds wheels i highly doubt you would subject them to the shanagins a 25yr old deano would have
D. to go for some fun times fit tires for the buggy wheels and go have fun sparing the sparce deanos, IMO i think 70s look like far to much tire in the little hole vw left us to use, im really liking the looks of the 65s but it all gets you back to how the new wheels work with it all

if all else fails, we have all thought about F. on these silly builds we sware we would never do again  ;D ;D

You must have a crazy offset wheel.  Mine are 5.5" C-Lines.  I have about the wiest combo possible with short axles, and mine are right on the edge.....but not as far out as yours.  Wheel swap would be my vote.  What are the wheels again?

Darn.... I don't think the brakes will buy you enough,...I would ditch the DOTs (sidewall is too Bubbly and not in a "happy" way) and look for new rims. I wouldn't consider having Eric Vaughn narrow them given they are quite rare. On the upside, the paint looks Fan-friggin-tastic. Sorry bout the dilema. I had to deal with the same situation on a '67 Squareback. Original Centerlines and Dunlap GT Qualifiers.........ended up putting on the short axles, and rolling the fender a wee bit.

The rims look like they are sooooooooooooooooo close to working with a differnent tire. Any chance you know someone that will lend you say a 205/65-15 Micth-e-Lynn? Maybe, that and brakes. (ok, being optimistic, but it can't hurt)

Lets face it, ditching DDS is not an option.
Something have to change... but not the tire, rim, fender or torsion housing.

That leaves you with narrower brakes, or custom length axles (ask Jussi on here) with sectioned end castings.
The brake backing plates could also have the center section cut out and moved 20mm out. The you could fit the type3 drum (machined) 20 mm deeper.

In the end, getting a impossible wheel to fit gives more than what can be achieved with bolt on parts. Seeing a (too) deep DDS fitting under a stock fender would talk directly to the subconscious of the onlooker.

Could you turn the wheel around?  Making it a "deep" 6. Not being funny but I could on my erco's.  The valve stem would be an issue though

E. Judging from the pictures, the problem is with the tires, not the rims. I'd even go as far as to say that your current tires look to big for the rim.... but most of the forum would probably disagree with me.

F. Nonsense. Why would you use such a painful, slow and inefficient method when guns are so easily available in the US?

If it will ease the pain at all Dean, The DOT bias ply rear and radial front combo completely sucks on the street. Handling is unpredictable and car is all over the place. Ask Sarge and Tim Walton about it I'm sure they'd agree. 

I like this approach. Not easy, but definitely worth it.

         I.R.S. and get the narrowing tool out  ;)
I did , can tuck pretty much anything under there now  :)

We ran DDS front and Erco (CMS) rears on the 1960 for years.  They look "really close" at 100 mph, lol.  The DDS fronts had a small backspacing, putting the 145 front runner tire edge out against the edge of the fender, even with a 2" narrowed beam.  Just go with the Erco (CMS) rears, pick the inner and outer width's and back spacings that will give you the desired results and don't look back.  You have screwed around too long on that car, "it's time to drive it, we are not getting any younger"!

That's why we like reading Taylor's thoughts.  He's always "thinking outside the box", I like it, should not be hard to weld up the valve holes and reverse.



One other question, "How straight are your DDS wheels"?

Deano, switch the tire to a 165-185 70 old school type radial tire, I bet that will get it there.  

I had M&H DOT's on my old white '65.  They were GREAT for hooking up at the drags, I dropped .4-.5 seconds off my 60 ft time just with those tires.

That being said, they SUCK on the street.  WAY squishy, as others have said here.  If you drive around curves with them on, you'll be scraping the doorhandles on the ground.   ;D

But, they do look cool.  Looks like you'll need offset ERCO's to make it work if you keep the tires.  

Oh, the paint looks like the usual Buddy Hale perfection....my white '65 painted by Buddy was almost flawless....looked like he dipped the whole car in paint, it was so smooth.

Why weld up the valve holes?

I say run them on the inside!

Dean have you had the weight of the motor in the car yet? They will pull in a little, But probably not enough. Try takeing a wooden or plastic dowel and put between tire and fender edge and roll car back and forth. Each time leaning on dowel more and more. One thing to think about is sliceing fender next to apron and up to about bumper bracket grommet and then try the dowel treatment. But get the engine weight in it, Things change. Just A idea from a simple body guy ! Good look and post some picture after.

I was worried the 215/65's weren't going to fit in the fenders in AssHull's car, but once the motor was in all was well. But what Dean has there is a serious problem! No amount of weight on the rear suspension or fender rolling is going to mend that. I really like the approach JHU has in mind. Cut the end casting down as far as you can and make the axles match. Then swap to narrower brakes if need be. Or doing the backing plates like JHU said. SMART! The thought of reversing the wheels is good, but aren't the DDS wheels zero offset?

I know it's been a long project, but now is not the time to rush it together. Do it once, do it right, do it the way you want it done.

Danny, I know you could massage the fenders and make it fit.  But........hey dude, it's already been painted by Buddy Hale, let's find a less painfull way to help Dean out.

How about contacting somebody that does metalspinning and have some outer wheel halfs made with different offset? Just another Idea. But the cheap and fastest way would cut fenders and have buddy spot them in. 4-5 hours and boom! There done! or If ya wanted to spend the time, Unroll fender lips and stretch fender lips out.  Or have somebody cut/weld front section of wheel, That and maybe run something like a 185-95 70 tire. But first get it on the ground with weight on rear and height its going to live and figure what width something needs to be narrowed , So your not guessing.

Recaps? They have the height and very straight sidewall? The were one of the few tires I could get to fit with the offset of my sprintstars.
Cheers, Gavin

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/619567.jpg)

I am just ass-u-me- ing here but wider fenders has to be out... right?  Also, the weight thing isn't an issue, just re index the spring plate! Much less work and a lot less chance to scratch everything. I bet it has bigger bars than stock so pre-load won't be an issue.  Narrowing the suspension creates about 1 billion more problems.

Dean I have a set of wide five 6" cms wheels with 3 1/2" back spacing that have DOT's mounted you are welcome to use them for mock up if you want. I need them on April 29th though. 

I'm with Danny on this one. Pull the NOS fenders and screw them to the wall in the man-cave. Stretch and squirt a pair of repop fenders while your paint is still

fresh. No one will ever know...it'l be our secret  ;)

I would just go with a 195 tire by Continental.

Is the body straight on the pan? In other words, are the wheel sticking out the same on both sides?
Depending on what ride height you are aiming for the thread pattern might just slip inside.

Gavin,
You car kills !
One of the best cal look ever
Please don't hesitate to post more pics
Thxs

A 195/??. 195/65's are too short, and 195/70's aren't available here (far as I know).
I feel like I'm the only one looking at those pictures. That is a wiiiiiddddeee track!!
I think a 185/70 (thinnest tires I would fit to a 6" rim) with narrow drums *might* get it there. That would be the easiest solution.




And loose the 175/55's. Sorry, but they just look wrong to me! ;D

But why?

Narrow drums had this small disadvantage, that they are not the best as far as braking is concerned. And with skinny tires at front, fat tires at the rear and cal-look stance, heaving rear brakes strong enough may be important. That is, of course, if a way the car drives is a priority, which is not always (or often) the case.

Because anything narrower than 185 looks like shit on a 6" rim. I too think a 195 looks great on a 6", but I feel the 65's are too short and unfortunately the 70's aren't easily had over here.

185/70's are available, but are SPENDY. I truly wish there was an affordable option, I love that size tire.

Slicing my wrists appears to the easy way out.... Yikes. I have some new 6" wheels from B&R Buggies that have a better offset and look very close to DDS. I will mount those wheels and a 205/65 tire and see how close we get. I understand that the final judgement won't until the engine and full weigt applied before I go crazy again. Thanks for all the photos and ideas.

Just run the 205 65's, they will drive much better than the M&H's & they will look more in proportion with your short front tires. They M&H's have a huge sidewall bulge. You may be able to run the radials on the DDS &  have a wheel made to fit the race tires. If you are still having problems you can talk to Mike H. @ Rancho & he has some ideas about taking some off the drums &  axle spacers. This will gain a little room.

Dean
I know this are small but they sure fit nice. These are my 195 65 15 Kumho on '68 with stock length axles on 15x6 wheels.
Bill

Another view same ones

here is my 67 back in the day on 205/70-15's on short axle's back in the day def something going on with deanos  >:(
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/639182.jpg

For what it's worth, my combination works with a 4 1/2in. backspace. It gives me 1in. clearance at the spring plate and the fender lip.

FWIW, here's Radial GT 205/70/15 on EMPI 8 Spokes on stock rear drums, under stock fenders. It fits, but thats about it. Only slightly touched the inner fender at first try.
Light massage of the inner lip in the fender made it rotate freely without problems. I drove several thousands of kilometers with this setup
without a hitch, handling was a bit weaker on the rear due to the higher tire-walls.

(http://www.volkspower.nl/vp/images/phocagallery/albums/drQ/1776/P1000582_resize.JPG)

Cheers!

IF you were making some HORSE POWER there wouldn't be any "sluggushness"  :o :o ::) ::)    ;D ;D

F-560 , short axles and 311 drums....