The Cal-look Lounge

  What works for you nowadays with spin-on oil filters. I have been using Wix 51515R. Is this good?

Have you had one blow apart yet? If not then it's probably good, if it does, then switch to fram HP-1

I used the HP1 for years until I watched some(a lot) of oil filter tests on Youtube. I then bought a System1.

Been a loyal System 1 user since ever since I met and bought it from the designer himself, Jon Karcey, back in the mid 80's.  But I have used the HP-1 on an engine.  I also bought a Geers oil filter as well, but it just collects dust at the moment.

canton mecca i heard is really good!

They sure are.

(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/cm2.jpg)

(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/oil%20filter.jpg)

Wix 51515R is a direct swap for the HP1, the HP1 isn't what it used to be in my opinion, they are just a cheap copy now days

My choice in this order

Wix 51515R for street cars and race engines if you dont want to look inside the filter and want a easy disposable filter [we use these on our street cars and some race engines]

Geers engineering for engines you do want to see inside the filter and be re usable[ I run this on the new cabrio]

Canton for looking inside, but have to replace element {I run this on the old cabrio]

cheers richie

A similar question cropped up on here a few years ago. Here's what I wrote at the time. I still hold the same opinion:

If you want max protection for your engine don’t use an Oberg, System 1 or any of the ‘re-usable’ billet style oil filters

Yes, they’ll show if anything major is breaking down but so will taking a look inside the 3-4 valve cover (a lot quicker and less messy).

The micron rating of a stainless mesh filter isn’t good enough to prevent the kind of wear a good quality conventional throw away filter provides. Stainless mesh filters are little more than a sophisticated version of the original stock strainer.

I used a System 1 on the dyno for years but ran it as a pre-filter before routing through a ‘proper’ oil filter. Recently I quit using the System 1 and reverted to conventional ‘throw away’ filters. I cut them open with a filter cutter after each test session to check for abnormal wear… quicker, easier and more convenient than dismantling, cleaning and reassembling the System 1.

In the long term, engines fitted with re-usable filters will see more wear and tear on the bearings and journals than those using paper cartridge filters. The re-usable/eco claim doesn’t quite stack up either… what fluids do you use, where do you dump the mess etc?

A lot of of re-usable, stainless mesh, washable filters with billet housings have appeared on the market in the last couple of years. One of the claimed advantages is lack of a bypass valve. The advertising hype implies regular filters bypass oil at pressures as low as 8psi. What they fail to mention is bypass pressure is differential pressure, NOT absolute pressure.
Note: the System 1 and Oberg feature a bypass valve. Maybe the lack of bypass in the billet filters is more a cost saving measure than a performance enhancement? The reason they can dispense with a bypass valve is because they don't filter the oil properly.

I don’t know the HP1′s bypass pressure offhand but it’s around 20psi IIRC. To achieve that level of pressure differential across a filter, the engine would be history anyway. The advertising hype used by some of the billet filter people is (for want of a better word) misleading.

There have been quality control issues with the Fram HP1. It appears they’ve changed method of manufacture. There are a number of good quality alternatives. I’ve switched to K&N Gold HP-3001. Similar in size to the HP1 with slightly higher burst pressure, lots of surface area and excellent micron rating.

If people want to run Obergs because they look cool, cost lots of money etc, fine. I used an Oberg on my first race car thinking I was doing the right thing. I too thought it was letting me see what was going on in my engine. What I didn’t realise, it was preventing me seeing the small stuff it can’t catch.

Obergs and other similar products no doubt have their place but if your primary concern is taking the microscopic particles that can damage bearings/jourmals/pistons etc out of circulation, they’re not the best product on the market for that application.

If used as a pre-filter before a proper filter you can still play detective and have a look inside to see how much silicone your engine builder used.

========================================

Subsequent posts in the original thread go on to mention Canton filters. They don't have a bypass valve but still manage to filter down to at least the level of a decent quality paper cartridge throw-away filter, i.e. they filter ALL of the oil, ALL the time.

View the original thread here:
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,427.0.html

John, what to you consider a acceptable micron rating?

10-20 microns is the norm for most paper element throw-away filters
Canton: 8 microns
K&N Gold: 10 microns
Oberg: 40 microns
System 1: 45 microns

am i right in saying you need a bypass filter to get much smaller, then your in the region or 3 microns or some even claim 1...... and thats when you dont need to change oil very often at all.
haulage companies go for it due to its money saving, i was tempted to try one but the filter is about £40 alone.... and you change that when you would normally change the oil was my take on it.... Kleenoil was the brand i looked at, but you get some cheaper ones.

follows on to toilet roll filters..... but i'm side tracking a bit  :o

oberg filter screens come in a few different micons. 28 to 115.

I found this K&N, high pressure rated like an HP-1 I believe, they had both a regular size and a smaller (shorter) one. I choose the shorter one because my dual merge mufflers wouldn't clear a regular size filter. It also has a wrench end for easier removal (not really needed for a vw application) and a hole in the end so it could be safety wired if someone wanted to.

Larry

I use the regular size K&N

I use the new SPEEDFLOW Oil Filter from JC.

Ted

John, 45 microns for the System 1, is that for the fine or extra fine mesh?

System 1 website states they supply a 45 micron filter as standard.
Does that count as 'fine' or 'extra fine'?  ;)


Oberg surface area is a fraction the size of a conventional filter. The only way it can achieve high flow rates is to use a coarse mesh (poor filtration) or open the bypass valve (zero filtration). Good luck trying to squeeze high pressure engine oil through a 4 or 6 inch diameter 28 micron screen without seeing a major drop in pressure!


Jaycee's Speedflo is new to me. It's listed as having an 8 micron filter and no bypass. It uses a throw-away element as opposed to a reusable one. Sounds good!
AFAIK there are no reusable filters that combine high flow rates with a low micron (10 or less) rating.

Rather than deal with more questions about one make of reusable filter over another, fine mesh/extra fine mesh etc etc..... assume any filter featuring a reusable, washable element has less filtering ability than a cheap throw-away. While Canton and Speedflo don't exactly fall into the 'cheap' category, they both have 8 micron, throw-away elements.

This is one of those rare areas in engine building where a cheaper component can outperform the blingy-billet-big-buck item.
Funny how some people don't like hearing that   ???

i read somewhere on a To#¤ta forum, TRD uses the stock To yota spin on oil filter used on their mass produced passenger vehicles for their race cars.

they are widely available over here (Asia) for less than USD7.

quite sure they are available worldwide easily. could be an alternative to the traditional American brand oil filters??

not sure on the thread size or if they have bypass or not though.

More great, useful information! I run a JayCee filter as well but recently (before reading this) thought about going to a filter with a replaceable element.  I'm just not sure that I can clean (get all of the debris out of the reuseable filter) the stainless steel filter elements properly. How do you know that you've gotten everything out of it, that's been one of my concerns with it.

John - You state "A lot of of re-usable, stainless mesh, washable filters with billet housings have appeared on the market in the last couple of years. One of the claimed advantages is lack of a bypass valve. The advertising hype implies regular filters bypass oil at pressures as low as 8psi. What they fail to mention is bypass pressure is differential pressure, NOT absolute pressure."  Does this mean that the claims say that as soon as there is the pressure differential (such as a sudden rise in oil pressure) is 8 psi or higher the bypass valve closes and the oil does not go hrough the filter?  I was lead to believe that once the oil pressure reached a higher level that the bypass valve would close and the oil would not be filtered.  Just a little confused on what was said.
Thanks again for posting this information!
Jeff

Canton Mecca filters have no bypass, so they filter 100% of the oil 100% of the time.

The billet canister will not burst and the filter will not clog so they don't need a bypass valve.

OEM Mann/Mahle? As found on almost all 4cyl waterpumper VWs.

Canton here.

  Thanks for all the replies guys. I guess that I will stay with the Wix. I do have some concern when I found out that it filters 60 microns against 10 for the K&N though. My motor is a mild 74x88 street motor. I do have a Berg 1 and 1/2 sump. I think I used a K&N on a previous motor and it caused a somewhat drop in oil pressure. I guess that is why I went to WIX. Is this what happens when you use a lower micron filter. ( lower oil pressure )

 Micron ratings are extremely important. Truck diesel motors can run a million miles because they have the filtering capacity to do so. The best filter(or one of the best) in my opinion is the Mobile One Synthetic filter. It filters down to less then 5 microns if memory serves me correct. And yes, they are not cheap. 8-12.00 a filter. I have used them for years in my cars and it's amazing how clean they keep the oil.
    Anything 20 microns and above is not giving you

I run the Wix 51515R filter (61 microns) on the blue car now. Or the Moroso racing filter(27 microns). I've even run an HP1 in a pinch.

The Wix is most definitely a "Keep the Big Rocks Out" filter, but in my mind if you've got chunks bigger than that floating around, you got other problems.I would rather have a free flowing filter than one that is restrictive. So yeah, the Wix may not filter really fine. The Moroso is 27 microns so it's a little better. But what is really good is that they flow oil. Oil keeps the motor running.

For a time, I ran one of the so-called "Billet" oil filter offered through the VW industry. Stainless steel media. Yeah it looked cool, but was a pain in ass to clean. You can't get them really really clean without some specialized stuff. Here in California, the spray cleaners like "Chem-Tool" or "Gumout" are about as effective as water, so those are useless. So, with a citrus based cleaner, a bunch of time later, you still have something that's "pretty clean". Screw that my friends!

The other thing I noticed is the the so called permanent media is not so permanent after all. The adhesive/sealant holding the screen to the end pieces breaks down, sending chunks of THAT through the system. Nice!

Besides, most cars on the road go a couple hundred thousand miles with filters most of us wouldn't consider running on our hot rods because "They're not good enough."

I would suggest that if you want to filter the oil really fine, run the biggest filter you can find or even multiple filters. More area equals less pressure drop.

Or, just change the oil regularly!

What JMR said.

Here on the eastern bank I use Mann 940/1 or for summer only and lower rpm engines 940/25. Fine filters And reasonably priced too.
I also had an Oberg on my test stand for a while, but was not satistfied with the filtering, so i sold it an went back to disposable filters again.

T

the speedflo/Jaycee filter are built to handle max pressure and use disposable 8 micron elements or optional stainless steel cleanable 15 micron element, they feature rugged orings to seal and do not have a bypass so all oil is filtered.
These are available in lots of colors and directly replace the standard HP1 or other typical VW oil filter mount using 3/4-16 threads.
Made in the USA!!!
 (http://www.piersideparts.net/mm5/graphics/00000001/speedflofor-web.jpg)

Why did Jaycee discontinue the billet racing filter ? Is it because the mesh is almost impossible to get totally clean (as posted earlier) hence why the new speedflow has the throwaway element ?

Is the element a standard part that we can get anywhere or one off? In the uk some American car parts (if the element is from one) are kinda hard to get easily :(

"Why did Jaycee discontinue the billet racing filter ? Is it because the mesh is almost impossible to get totally clean (as posted earlier) hence why the new speedflow has the throwaway element ?"

Jack was unable to source the original filters so we decided to start from scratch and build it exactly the way we wanted, one improvement was the ability to use a smaller micron, disposable element as well as the anti back flow valve and easy to access removeable cap. 
 
 
 

Sounds like the Canton Mecca.

Thanks for the reply...looking at replacing my older Jaycee filter. Choices seem to be Speedflo, Canton or conventional good quality spin on like K&N etc

I like the idea of inspecting the filter element...without having to cut the filter open.

Could someone explain the advantages/disadvantages of filters with and without the bypass valve ? thanks

No bypass valve means it filter 100% of the oil, 100% of the time.

The bypass valve is a safety valve so the filter doesn't explode.

I thought is was to make sure the engine always had oil?

Can you put the new disposable element that is is used in the latest speedflow filter in the older JayCee filter with the "cleanable" element? That would be nice because then those of us who have an older JayCee filter with the cleanable element wouldn't have to buy a whole new filter.

(http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z148/2manytoys_photo/JayceeSpeedflo.jpg)

Where do you buy from H?

I got Jim @ stateside tuning to pick me up one and 6 spare elements last time he was in the states.  Give him a bell, he might be able to get more.

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/25-412/25-412----CM--45-BILLET-SPIN-ON-OIL-FILTER-1-12/

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/DealerPage/Dealer%20Profiles/Think_Automotive.html

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/DealerPage/Dealer%20Profiles/Performance_Unlimited.html

Any of those help?

:)
Martin.

Hi Ash

Someone bought them back from the US for me with a load of cartridges.

Beware- the Canton filter is longer than most reuseable items and may require re siteing.

Thanks gents.  ;D