The Cal-look Lounge

Cal-look/High Performance => In Da Werks => Topic started by: Anders on May 18, 2013, 22:31:20 pm



Title: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 18, 2013, 22:31:20 pm
Hi fellas,

Thought I’d start a thread on here about my current project, namely getting my car into the 12 second club.

I bought this car back in 2005, from now my good friend Vegard aka BABOON.
This was back when I was studying and since money was in short supply it seemed like the perfect fit.
I drove it for about a year and after attending my first SCC in 2006 I decided to do a pan of restoration
and to rebuild the car as cal-looker (didn’t go down to well with my wife).

Spending all the money I had while studying, minus some for beer, food and rent, it took me 3 years to get the car ”done”.

Here’s a picture of it before and a couple of it after, I’m the guy with the cap.
(Fabs: hope it’s OK that I post your pic)




Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 18, 2013, 22:45:21 pm
The engine was bought from JHU who in turn bought it off a guy at a local swap meet.
It is an old formula V one but has later been bored to 1600cc.

After I bought I’ve fitted it with a berg CW crank, JPM modified heads, raptor cam and a 010 dizzy.
Compression is set to 11:1.

This engine does mid 15 seconds all day long with a 1300s gearbox.
My best ET was 15.478 @ 134kph at SCC2011, not too bad for a 1600 singel port.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 18, 2013, 22:49:10 pm
Now, a lot of 15sec passes later, I feel like it’s time to move on.

I’ve always liked small engines and since getting into the 12’s with a 2l+ engine
don’t post much of a challenge these days I thought I would try to do it with a 1776,
while keeping it old school looking (Most expensive idea I’ve had for a while).
 
I’ve been collecting parts for about a year now and finally have everything I need to get the build going.

Specs so far is:
043 Heads
new AS 41 case (full flow + shuffle pins center main only)
Berg 69 crank (from the other engine)
Super race rods
Custom JE 90,5 pistons
short DDS IDA manifolds
DDS power pulley
DDS look’a’like sump
Berg 26mm oil pump
scat pro comp 1:1.4 rockers
Logmech alu push rods
Custom Turbo Thomas stainless exhaust
KEP stage 1 + daikin super disc
Etc

Getting a ton of parts delivered is pretty fun. Too bad it doesn’t happen more often.  :)

Stay tuned for more.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Lee.C on May 18, 2013, 23:12:53 pm
Hmmmm interesting  ;) :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 19, 2013, 12:57:42 pm
Indeed, it should prove very interesting. I hope to complete the engine by SCC2013 and to have it dynoed.
After that I'll have enough information about the power range of the engine to put together a matching gearbox.
The box will have to come some time next year as the budget for 2013 is long gone.

One of the challenges with the old engine was to get enough air down the carbs. Originally the sprint kit comes with thin pancake filters,
which of course is quite flow restricting. I ran my engine without the filters and tried to manufacture a set of really low stacks.
The problem is that it's only about 5cm from the base of the carb to the firewall. You can tell how big the problem really is by observing all
the paint the engine sucked out from the firewall.  :(

This engine would probably live a happier life in something with a bit more space in the engine bay, like a ghia or bus.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: reijo5 on May 19, 2013, 13:35:17 pm
like the sound of this , keep us posted  8)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jesse Wens on May 19, 2013, 16:41:59 pm
what about headwork?
I got some 043s too and would like some ideas around those


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Andy Sykes on May 19, 2013, 17:11:14 pm
i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp  :o


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Lee.C on May 19, 2013, 17:34:35 pm
i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp  :o

That is an amazing engine  ;D

I would start reading the "mouse motor" thread  ;)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 19, 2013, 17:49:08 pm
i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp  :o

That is some serious numbers from a 1776!
Can't remember, but did JPM do the heads for Peter?
JPM did mine and he mentioned a "similar" set in the UK.

If this is the case, my heads should be a bit more street friendly than Peter's.
They don't flow as much, but the gas velocity is higher so I'm hoping for decent torque numbers as well.

I'll post some pictures of the heads when I get back from the cabin,
only head I can show you today is a really red one after a fantastic weekend with a lot of sun!  :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Lee.C on May 19, 2013, 20:24:13 pm
i find these small engines very interesting peter shattock ran an 11.4 a few weeks ago with a 1776 with I think 230hp  :o

That is some serious numbers from a 1776!
Can't remember, but did JPM do the heads for Peter?
JPM did mine and he mentioned a "similar" set in the UK.

If this is the case, my heads should be a bit more street friendly than Peter's.
They don't flow as much, but the gas velocity is higher so I'm hoping for decent torque numbers as well.

I'll post some pictures of the heads when I get back from the cabin,
only head I can show you today is a really red one after a fantastic weekend with a lot of sun!  :)

I think it a JPM built motor  :-\

I am looking forward to seeing some number  ;) :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 20, 2013, 18:46:15 pm
Ok, so here are some pictures of the heads.
Johannes did an outstanding job on them, and I can't wait to see how they perform.

Had to add some meat to the DDS manifolds, but the logo is still clearly visible  :)
The height of the manifold are just perfect for this engine, so they did things right back in the days as well...



Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 20, 2013, 18:48:11 pm
..


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 20, 2013, 18:55:13 pm
Valve size is 41/35mm and they seem to put out some decent numbers.

Flow with the manifold @25":
2,  41.1                           35,1
4,  78,4                           74,3
6,  112,5                         98,8
8,  143,4                        115,1
10,  165,6                      128,0
12,  180,2                      136,6
14,  188,1                      142,2
16,  191,1                      146,1

should be enough to break the 200hp limit.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: BeetleBug on May 20, 2013, 18:56:03 pm
Wow.. a project thread from one of the Stormtroopers and a interesting one too  ;)

Those heads are pure art! 41mm intake valve and 191 cfm!! What about your gearbox? Will it handle the new engine you think?

Keep us updated!

Bestr rgs
BB


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 20, 2013, 19:06:05 pm
I sure hope not!  ;D That would give me the perfect reason to replace it with a better one.

All I hope to get out of the old gearbox, a 1300s, is some test and tune runs at SCC.
I plan on getting a new box built for the next season with shorter gears.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Wout on May 20, 2013, 22:08:14 pm
Nice car, made this last summer...

gr
Wout


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jesse Wens on May 20, 2013, 23:08:47 pm
Thanks for the headhots, those look great


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Benou67 on May 21, 2013, 20:10:40 pm
CSP exhaust ? ;)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 22, 2013, 08:53:26 am
Thanks for posting the pictures Wout!  :)

Benou67: Correct, the old engine was fitted with a CSP dual quiet pack


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: cedric on May 22, 2013, 10:26:11 am
Wow suchs number on the flow...... ;D


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jon on May 22, 2013, 14:23:48 pm
Nice project!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jesse/DVK on May 22, 2013, 21:29:10 pm
Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Lee.C on May 22, 2013, 21:36:54 pm
You should also speak to Ian Clake - he has ALOT of experience with 1776's  ;) :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: wolfswest on May 24, 2013, 10:14:01 am
Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?

Porsche pattern Minilites I guess... 


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on May 24, 2013, 13:39:01 pm
As others have said "nice project"

Great to see another fast 1776 in the making. I really do think its an excellent combination which is relatively cheap, strong, easy to fit in the car. It will certainly be capable of being plenty fast enough for a street car. I'm sure you can make the 12's if you have the right gear ratios and the car is not to heavy.

Again as others have said its a nice looking car too, I like the stance / wheel tire combo.

Good luck with the project, I'm looking forward to see how you get on, but you are off to a great start with those heads!

ps I cheated mine is a 1795cc now. So a bit more hamster like than a mouse motor. The best time I ran when it was a 1776 was an 11.92 if I remember correctly, and it would run 11.9's consistently. I ran many 12's over a time of about 6 years, so I'm sure you can do it and still keep it as a very street friendly reliable car, and there is a lot to be said for that! 

Have fun

Peter


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: JS on May 24, 2013, 15:13:50 pm
"Cheap" is indeed relative, Peter.  :D


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on May 25, 2013, 04:29:55 am
Thanks for the kind comments guys and thanks for sharing Peter!
This doesn't count as cheap in my book,  but as you said everything is relative. :-)

Hope to be able to drive it on the street quite a bit, excited to see what 12.5 in compression does to the driveability and longevity of the engine.

Cool challenge! I really dig the color combo of the car and wheels and the wheel type. What kind of wheel is it?

Porsche pattern Minilites I guess... 

Jupp, you're right on  the money. :-)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on May 26, 2013, 08:51:28 am
"Cheap" is indeed relative, Peter.  :D

Fair point and "relative" is the important word here! I appreciate none of the is cheap and the truth is all this is a rather ridiculous waste of money!

I know those heads will not have been cheap but if you are going to spend big money on an engine and you want to make power that's. The place to spend it. Stick your IDA's on top and that's the inlet side of the combustion side of things done. Get the right cam in there and a suitable exhaust and you have a very capable arangement. The rest of the engine then just needs to be good enough to keep it all in one price.

Look at the mouse motor thread again and check out the parts list expensive parts where they are needed elsewhere dare I say cheap again!

I think you will have a really stout little motor, with plenty of potential for improvement if you want to.

I had some of the best driving and times in the garage improving my old 1776 motor. The good news is the new owner has a similar plan to just nibble away with small improvements to get the best from something most people pass by on the way to bigger and "better" things.

I think you're going to have a lot of fun!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 13, 2013, 12:05:16 pm
Hi again guys,
Back from the states after a nice couple of weeks in california and wisconsin.
Picked up some parts along the way too to get this project going again.

Had to delay the balancing of the crank since I did not have the pulley yet,
now that it's here I hope to drop the crank assembly of during this week.

Other than that the deck height has been measured, 11.89mm is a bit to much so the
sylinders have to be machined down about 10.89mm. That way I'll end up with around 1mm deck height,
or as some crazy people would say; 0.04".

The sylinders have been delivered to Erik, the 'go to guy' when it comes to machining parts in this area, and I hope
to get it back soon.

When I get the stuff back I plan on doing some case porting, before starting on bearing clearance and other phun things.

This is probably very blasphemous of me but I rented a car in the states and thought I would give some american muscle a try,
after all I was in america. Ended up getting an upgrade from the dodge challenger r/t I originaly rented to the Camaro SS.
I must say that I really liked it, at least driving it, and the 426 american ponies in the front was more than able to send me sideways through some intersections.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 13, 2013, 12:47:47 pm
..
I know those heads will not have been cheap but if you are going to spend big money on an engine and you want to make power that's. The place to spend it. Stick your IDA's on top and that's the inlet side of the combustion side of things done. Get the right cam in there and a suitable exhaust and you have a very capable arangement. The rest of the engine then just needs to be good enough to keep it all in one price.

Look at the mouse motor thread again and check out the parts list expensive parts where they are needed elsewhere dare I say cheap again!
..

I agree Peter, a good 1776 short block is relatively cheap to build.
A decent 69 CW crank doesn't cost much these days and if it weren't for the JE pistons in my engine cylinder and pistons from mahle not that pricey.
On top of that you save some money on machining of the case for clearance with longer stroke etc.

I recon it will be a ton of fun on the street, hope I get to drive it this summer or at least get it ready for SCC.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Zach Gomulka on June 13, 2013, 13:22:29 pm
What's the story on those pistons? Short rods as well??


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 13, 2013, 15:15:49 pm
Hi Zach,
The pistons are JE made after JPM's specifications. They are shorter and lighter than Mahle and the wrist pin have been moved about 10mm closer to the top.
Other than that they have gas ports and extra material on one side to accommodate deep valve pockets.

The rods i'm using is cb super race @ 5.400", which I believe is fairly close to stock length.

When the engine is finished I expect it to be close to 30mm narrower than stock.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Flow on June 14, 2013, 18:49:41 pm
I love your car !! Nice choice of wheels, really inspiring  ;)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: wolfswest on June 17, 2013, 11:10:54 am
Hi Zach,
The pistons are JE made after JPM's specifications. They are shorter and lighter than Mahle and the wrist pin have been moved about 10mm closer to the top.
Other than that they have gas ports and extra material on one side to accommodate deep valve pockets.

The rods i'm using is cb super race @ 5.400", which I believe is fairly close to stock length.

When the engine is finished I expect it to be close to 30mm narrower than stock.

What about the cooling tin?  30mm is a lot!  :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 21, 2013, 13:36:27 pm
Thanks Flow! Glad you like it..  :)

What about the cooling tin?  30mm is a lot!  :)

If you're asking if I have to shorten the tin as well, then the answer is yes :)
Don't know how yet. I'll cross that bridge when I get the cylinders back.

I suppose the cylinder tin is pretty much straight forward, but the fan housing could be a little worse.
Guess I'll have to cut the sides and tuck it a bit inward to get the appropriate air flow.

Anyhow, weighed the pistons today (thanks Erik). Pretty happy with the weight straight from JE
and with some mix and match with the wrist pins I got it down to a difference of 0.3g at the most.

I recon that is close enough and good to go.

weights with pins, were as follow:

1: 412,0g
2: 412,1g
3: 412,0g
4: 412,3g






Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on June 21, 2013, 13:49:53 pm
I had the same with the mahle pistons in my 1915. Mix and match with rods, and I got it down to within 0,2g I think overall.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on June 21, 2013, 13:56:53 pm
'I suppose the cylinder tin is pretty much straight forward, but the fan housing could be a little worse.
Guess I'll have to cut the sides and tuck it a bit inward to get the appropriate air flow'

Hi Anders,

I had much the same problem and my engine must be a very similar width. I got the wide 30 horse style CSP fan shroud to fit with only a small dimple required with a hammer. I did also have to file the side of the carb (IDA) on the 1 and 2 side but once I had done that it was all good.

The cylinder tin was a bit more work, but I kept the two bolt holes to the head in basically the stock locations and shortened every thing the case end which worked fine, but as with most jobs like this it is a bit time consuming!

The funny thing was that it gets a bit close with the engine seal gasket reaching the cylinder tin. Mine does so I suspect it will be OK with yours too, but to be honest it was never something I considered until I came to fit it, but luckily it was OK.

The front and rear tin also gets a bit fiddly but noting that cant be sorted with a bit of minor fab work.

I do have some pictures of mine, but I can never make them small enough to post, but I'll have another go.

Glad to see you are making progress, I'm looking forward to seeing how you get on!

Good luck

Peter


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 21, 2013, 14:20:37 pm
That is very useful information Peter, thanks!
If you can't shrink them I would be very grateful if you could send them to me on email! anderssw@gmail.com  :)
I'm sure they would be very helpful.

I'm using the old shroud from my previous motor. It's a late 30hp one, so it's about the same as yours I think.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on June 21, 2013, 14:24:43 pm
[attachment=1]

Will it work?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on June 21, 2013, 14:34:35 pm
That's a first for me getting a picture on here!

One thing I forgot to mention and you might be able to see it in the picture my carbs do lean out a little and every little helps!

This might be a better picture.

Regards

Peter


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: leec on June 21, 2013, 16:09:42 pm
What a great looking engine :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: goose on June 21, 2013, 17:23:37 pm
what kind of alternator is that?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 21, 2013, 18:11:27 pm
Looking good Peter!! Thanks for posting.

Is your tin powder coated with wrinkle finish? If so, our engines are going to look very similar.  :)

I can see the carbs leaning slightly outwards, don't know how mine will be.
did you cut into the underside of the shroud as well?  I'm guessing it got a bit wide when you shortened the cylinder tin.

Erlend: What kind of rods did you use? If it was CB's Super Race was there a big difference in weight on each rod?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on June 23, 2013, 14:08:50 pm
Peter, I remembered something about my manifolds that will help out with the clearance issue.
They are inverted, meaning the carb will face the other way.
Hopefully that should provide me with enough space as the fuel inlet and bowl will be facing the side of the engine compartment instead.

Did get something done this weekend. Fellow garage buddy BeetleBug was kind enough to lend me some tools, thanks for the help btw, and got me started on porting the case.
This was my first time doing something like this and I was unsure of how much material I could safely remove from the case, so the result might not be the best ever.
It should however flow a little more than before and every little helps ey?

Any feedback or pointers would be appreciated, I've read the JMR thread on internal case mods and tried to follow some of the stuff he was doing.

Crank is back from balancing as well, things are falling into place..  :)




 


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on June 23, 2013, 22:52:00 pm
Anders good to see you're still making progress.

I was in the garage tonight and found the 50mm long bit of carb linkage I cut off from my old linkage. Bearing in mind this came off a hi CR motor with a slightly shorter than stock rod. clearly the shorter manifolds account for part of this but it will be a narrow engine! As you say the carbs reversed will certainly help.

I didn't say before I haven't had any cooling issues at all so I don't think you have anything to fear just make sure the tin fits well and assuming you run an external cooler with some fans you will have all the temp control you need if mine is anything to go by.

Goose the generator, is just a regular 12v 6v size with a cover on the connectors.

Keep going!

Peter


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on June 23, 2013, 23:25:09 pm
All was within a few 1/10 of a gram.

Yes. 5.4" CB Superduper race  ;D


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 05, 2013, 09:54:12 am
Hello folks,

and belated happy 4th to you all.

Last week Folke and I took a road trip down south to visit Jon and his fabulous measuring tools (Thanks for all the help Jon!).
We spent the evening blueprinting our cases and they both came out pretty good!  :)
Mine was just 1/100mm off at some areas, so not something I'll worry about.

I've been told that the new mag cases are crap and that they will need a align bore after just 500 miles
so I'll write down all the measurements in my diary and that way I'll know how much the case gets worn down over time.

Regarding the topic of cooling; I'm running an external oil cooler from cb, aka the "atomic-cool". (With a name like that you know it's going to be good!)
Made some brackets the other day so I can fit it next to the gearbox on the left hand side, people don't call me Jesse James 'master fabricator' for nothing.....


..actually people don't call me that at all, as the pictures might indicate..




Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 10, 2013, 08:41:43 am
howdy ho,

I got a couple of things done last week,
Picked up the cylinders from Erik after he had machined them down to correct length.
In addition to that he helped me sort out the ring gap (Thanks!).

Received a package from summit as well, with everything I need to complete the fuel system.
I'm going to run a return style system with -an6 hardline both ways with a mallory pump and regulator.
Don't know where I will run the lines yet, but I think I will try to run them through the tunnel. Time will show.

Also got around to adding a couple of oil squirters to my rods with my "high precision" angle grinder, turned out ok I guess.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jon on July 10, 2013, 11:35:55 am
Love the return style fuel system. But the return line should ideally be a size bigger.
This is a GREAT read: http://www.centuryperformance.com/forum/showthread.php/55-Fuelish-Tendencies


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 11, 2013, 07:02:15 am
That is a great read indeed!!  :)
Ideally I should run a bigger return line to avoid any real pressure building up there,
but as I run a slightly oversized feed line, for my needs, I hope that the return is big enough.

Looking at the link above and the drag racing system mentioned, I should use one return style regulator and one dead head.
Is it possible to create a loop underneath the tank with the return regulator and the line going straight back into the tank,
and to have just the feed line going back to the engine and to the normal dead head regulator?

Would that be good enough? Does the length of the return line matter much?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jon on July 11, 2013, 08:22:36 am
Run the duals all the way, and skip the deadhead.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: kb on July 11, 2013, 12:12:44 pm
Run the duals all the way, and skip the deadhead.

That's what I did.. Ran pressure/return lines all the way from the tank to the regulator which was mounted at the firewall.. I don't really see the point of the deadahead regulator after the return-regulator..


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 12, 2013, 07:37:36 am
Thanks for the info, I'll run them both all the way and throw out the dead head regulator


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 17, 2013, 22:18:22 pm
Last week I assembled the crank with rods, gears and bearings. (I'm using old glyco steel backed bearings for the case/crank and old KS for the rods).
I've upgraded the ARP bolts to carrillo bolts which I've been told is a better bolt.

Bought myself a stretch gauge and measured how much I would need to torque the bolts to get the appropriate amount of stretch.
Lubed them all up and did this in the bench first and measured them at different torque settings, I ended up needing 52NM (38ft.lb) to get 0.15mm (0.006") stretch.
That should be within the specs provided by carrillo as the stretch range is 0.130 to 0.180mm with max torque of 54NM.

After that I started on assembling the short block.
Borrowed a lifter from Jon which he had machined a brass rod into, this was of great help when I was degreeing in the camshaft.
I ended up mounting the gear straight up with the lobe center seperation @ 108 degrees. Johannes told me that everything from 106-108 was fine.

Fought the famous battle of the oil pickup as well and got a new csp extra long pickup installed. Now everything is ready to to get bolted together.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Jon on July 19, 2013, 07:49:55 am
I'm loving it! Good to see you are buying tools...  ;D


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 19, 2013, 09:47:03 am
Thanks! Can't keep borrowing from others rest of my life ;)
And shopping decent quality tools is a fun way to pass the time anyhow... maybe not for the wallet tho.

Yesterday I took some time off work to finish up the short block.
Next stop; long block  ;D

BTW. I'm using bugpack 8mm race studs, like these http://www.piersideparts.net/BP4567-20.html.
Does anyone know if I'm supposed to use the same amount of torque on these as the original ones? (25Nm)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 19, 2013, 11:31:43 am
Looking good :) When do you fire it up?


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 19, 2013, 11:47:33 am
MAYBE next week.. but that is a big maybe.
Need to sort out the pushrod length, piston/valve clearance, end play and cooling tin.

after that it should be good to go...


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on July 19, 2013, 13:06:47 pm
Let me know if you make it next month. Would be cool to check it out


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Speed-demon on July 19, 2013, 20:03:10 pm
Remember that the headstuds probably need to be shortened too. Lots of work to build a narrow engine.... Looks good!!!!!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on July 19, 2013, 20:45:26 pm
Thanks, shortened them last week. Had to take of material on both sides. Made sure they cleared the manifolds and rocker arms.  :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: volkmaster on October 13, 2013, 16:10:34 pm
Any news from JPM dynoday Anders?
 :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Trond Dahl on October 13, 2013, 16:46:39 pm
205.4hp!
Great sounding engine!!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: wolfswest on October 13, 2013, 19:44:33 pm
205.4hp!
Great sounding engine!!

 :o NICE!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 05, 2013, 16:00:01 pm
Hi guys,
I suppose this update is somewhat long overdue :)

After long days and nights leading up to SCC I was able to put the engine together and get the car somewhat ready for the strip. (Big thanks to everyone who helped me along the way)
Since the engine had been shortened 30mm the CSP torque bar now came in conflict with exhaust pipe #3, I had to cut it off and did not have the time to weld it back in.

I mounted a Bugpack traction bar to compensate for the loss of the torque bar, but about 3 meters after launch (and a lot of wheel hops later) the right axle broke... being the 1st run and all it was kinda lame!

Long story short: I replaced the axle went down to Johannes @Dynoday and made 205.4hp. I felt OK that day!

Next in line is to upgrade the rear with 26mm torsion bars and raising it a couple of notches, weld the CSP stuff back in and get the cooling tin sorted.... and of course buy a new gearbox that doesn't give me a top speed of 270km/t.

The 12's is definitely within reach.

BTW. The engine never maxed out, the curve was still pointing upwards when Johannes let of the gas.
The dyno was spinning at 250km/t which someone might say is less than ideal.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: johandryselius on November 05, 2013, 18:44:46 pm
The sound in the engine at Dynoday was awesome!
:)
Johan


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Black_65 on November 05, 2013, 22:30:41 pm
No that is very cool numbers ;D.

Sorry to ask but what ignition are you using? i.e Dizzy etc


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: JS on November 05, 2013, 22:35:47 pm
The sound in the engine at Dynoday was awesome!
:)
Johan

Very true, really something else for sure!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 05, 2013, 23:09:00 pm
The sound in the engine at Dynoday was awesome!
:)
Johan

Very true, really something else for sure!

Thanks, that was a day to remember! :)

Black_65: dizzy is a bosch 010


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: GreenTom on November 12, 2013, 10:30:24 am
Good numbers. But you acheved about 186HP (139kW) and 204 Nm as I see. After sorting out the wheel hoop you should get 12s pass. Looking forward to see it in action.

Good luck.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 12, 2013, 12:21:04 pm
Thanks Tom,
Those numbers were at the wheels. Unfortunately Johannes' printer gave up at the end of the day and we wasn't able to get the all the information out.  :-\



Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: GreenTom on November 12, 2013, 14:03:12 pm
At the wheels? so that is really good numbers. Could you ask if it wasn't calculated to flywheel power and torque (most rolling road do that)?
I think that the numbers are calculated to flywheel power - If it was typical wheel power you should get 3rd graph line with gearbox loss (I'm not sure how it's called in english).
Anyways, really good numbres, congratulations.

 


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 12, 2013, 14:33:03 pm
If you look at this link, http://bit.ly/1cjgGXC, you'll find the numbers from Eivind's car how was on the dyno after me. It has some more information regarding wheel and flywheel kw.
Don't know why I didn't take a picture of that view only with my numbers. :(

Oh well, I guess I just have to back up the numbers by producing decent times on the strip...


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: BeetleBug on November 12, 2013, 14:54:13 pm
If you look at this link, http://bit.ly/1cjgGXC, you'll find the numbers from Eivind's car how was on the dyno after me. It has some more information regarding wheel and flywheel kw.
Don't know why I didn't take a picture of that view only with my numbers. :(

You took your picture too early Anders. He displayed the calculated flywheel HP afterwards.

Oh well, I guess I just have to back up the numbers by producing decent times on the strip...

That my friend will be the most difficult task now that you built the engine. The only way to get your car over the line fast with an engine like yours is to reduce weight and to build a custom gearbox with suitable ratios.


The easy approach would be to buy one of Russels lightweight gassers  :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 13, 2013, 10:28:03 am
I see, should have waited a bit with the pictures i guess, maybe I'll go back once I have a proper gearbox to see if we can find those extra couple of horses.

Buying flakyjake shure would be easy, but where's the fun in that :)
One of my initial goals was to have a 12 sec street car powered by a 1776,
it will remain undefiled for the time being, at least until I build a new car.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: modnrod on November 13, 2013, 12:45:07 pm
One of my initial goals was to have a 12 sec street car powered by a 1776,

Damn.
That's tough.
With your HP you should do it OK if your startline weight is under 900kg you would think though.
Are you going to make it even tougher on yourself and use radials?  ;D


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 23, 2013, 14:24:01 pm
Certainly tough on the wallet.  ;D
I'll put on some proper slicks when I'm racing, bought some phoenix slicks at SCC from Richie.
Plan is to buy separate rims for race/street, so once I get some passes in I can try the street wheels for fun :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Peter Shattock on November 23, 2013, 19:01:31 pm
Great stuff Anders! Well the power bit anyway, sorry to see you broke the gearbox before you got a good run in.

It certainly looks like you are well and truly on the road to financial ruin now!

Welcome to the club!

Hope you you can get the car back in one piece for next year and have some fun!

Peter


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on November 25, 2013, 17:51:27 pm
Thanks Peter,
I should be able to put together a box during the winter hibernation, lots to do at work so I can always put in some extra hours if the wallet bleeds to much.

Ending the season on a high note after Dyno day certainly helped my motivation!
Garage night tomorrow and I'll start by putting together a todo list for next season.



Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on December 01, 2013, 17:55:45 pm
Had a couple of hours in the garage today and continued the job on fabricating the cooling tin.
Will send them of to powder coating once done.

Did a leak test earlier this week with the help of Kalle (Thanks).
On a cold engine I had 2% leak (rings) on cylinder 1,3 and 4. number 2 had 4% with a small leak from the exhaust valve in addition to the rings.
Expect the leak to be close to 0% once it warms up.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on December 08, 2013, 16:53:30 pm
More fiddling with the cooling tin today.
Starting to get somewhere, maybe I'll have it done by Christmas.

[attachment=1]

Received this little thing in the mail the other day, intended for my next engine project.

[attachment=2]


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on December 13, 2013, 15:13:54 pm
Not much done this week, but I had a talk with JHU and came to the conclusion that my current solution to the shortened cylinder tin  and fan housing problem, might cause added turbulence and less effective cooling of the heads.
Took a step back and cut away the extra I welded to the cylinder tin and focused on shortening the fan house. Got the width I wanted so now I have to create a smooth arc to make the housing look like stock.





Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on December 17, 2013, 21:26:31 pm
Still not a lot to report as far as cooling tin goes, but received more parts for the 1600.
I'm going to use a holley 2100 setup which I got on thesamba, looks to be in decent shape.
Got the Stack and filter from socal speed shop, personally I think it looks a bit flashy. Will have to do something about that one day.

[attachment=1][attachment=2]

Has anyone any experience with the dome filter btw, read somewhere that they were a bit flow restricting but can't seem to find it again...

Anyhow got an old scruffy exhaust to go with the engine as well, not usually big on chrome mufflers but might let this one pass.  :D

[attachment=3]

Suppose I have to start another thread for the 1600 soon, so I don't clutter up this one..


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: modnrod on December 18, 2013, 00:05:25 am
Those mesh filters look and sound cool, and at least they don't melt and drop chunks of foam into the carb like a Ram-Flo I guess  :D, but they are restrictive.

Generally they reduce the available area into the carb by 30-40-50%, depending on mesh weave.
Oops! Now you have a ONE barrel Holley 2100!

Sliding one of those up into a stock oil bath assembly (after removing the mesh) is an option. Dual inlets to the air filter body, 6" x 4" filter inside it (450cfm flow)...........


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on December 18, 2013, 12:10:24 pm
Thanks man,
Appreciate the input! The mesh filter is easy to take off/put on so I'll be able test it out once I get the engine on the dyno.
A 'one' barrel 2100 is not quite what I had in mind :D




Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on January 04, 2014, 17:09:28 pm
A little more done on the cooling today.
Got a hold of a new set of cylinder tins. Made them fit the narrower engine and shortened the fan house as well.
Hope this will result in decent cooling. Next is welding them all up and getting 'em ready for paint.

[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]


Received the last of the DDS puzzle too, nice little thing.

[attachment=3]


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on April 23, 2014, 09:13:30 am
Hi guys,
Hope everyone enjoyed Easter and got lots done to their cars; getting them fit for fight for the coming season.

Not a lot of progress to report from my side, since I'm the the process of moving and has acquired me one of these:

[attachment=1]

But thankfully Jussi and Kuplapaja has been hard at work in Finland making me a nice box to go with the engine.
I'm excited to try out the dogrings and the finish gears to see what times can be made with this combo.
The ratios are:

3.70
2.31
1.68
1.39
 
3.88 R/P

Making it a really nice freeway flyer, or not  8)

[attachment=2]



Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 01, 2015, 10:12:43 am
Erlend and I treated our cars to a day at JPM's Spa and Resort on July 10th.
After a nice 500 or so kilometer cruise down to lovely Helsingborg on Thursday, with a short stop to pick up Johnny, everything was set for a day of wrenching and coffee drinking on Friday.

Main problem needing attention was poor drivability, with too rich idle and leaning way out on gentle acceleration. After a quick session on the dyno to recreate the problem, the decision was made to add the 3rd progression hole to the old Italians. A quick hour with wrencing and drilling later; the carbs where bolted back on to the motor. The result was instant and the previous flat-spots where all gone, great success! The later test drive really left me baffled on to how good such a, on paper, aggressive little mouse motor can behave in traffic. Truly smooth as silk... well almost :)
  
After some more wrenching, tuning and coffee drinking we ended up with 198hp @ 7630 rpm, not bad for a 1776cc, but a couple of horses less than the previous numbers from Dynoday 2013 (205.4hp @ 7900).

Anyhow the 12's are definitely within reach this season and with SCC coming up, I'm really looking forward to see what it can preform on the track in a couple of weeks!

Thanks for the help and a splendid trip Erlend & Johnny, I had a blast!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DlmTRcYYmmI


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 03, 2015, 14:53:47 pm
Some pictures from the trip and a slightly better video..

More at our page: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=843131749110353&id=813619438728251 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=843131749110353&id=813619438728251)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aUjkTd5rWo


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 03, 2015, 14:58:46 pm
(https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/v/l/t1.0-9/11813478_843130749110453_5425946053722759971_n.jpg?oh=6609e6e5f6ee3810188a43a53b8291b8&oe=5640DAEF)

(https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11800377_843130699110458_1412453876698675611_n.jpg?oh=fc12fa370b90e479d8f64bd35d2121b0&oe=564FD19D)

(https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/t31.0-8/11069599_843130742443787_6009656530159172737_o.jpg)

(https://scontent-ams2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xft1/l/t31.0-8/10562711_843130779110450_4752038251641963587_o.jpg)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: richie on August 03, 2015, 19:56:02 pm
You shouldn't have posted the tow car, I thought you meant you and Erlend drove them all the way to Johannes and I was really impressed :D

Good luck at SCC, am sure it will be fun 8)

cheers Richie


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 04, 2015, 19:22:58 pm
Thanks! SCC is always the highlight of the season and I hope I can post a nice timeslip here afterwards.

I would have impressed myself too if we drove both cars down to Johannes of their own accord!  :D
I tried it out earlier this year on the highway, goes straight as an arrow after I got the wheel alignment sorted, but not quite the freeway flyer with the new box.
120kph equates to 5000 rpms, it's a little tiresome in the long run...  :)
 
cheers


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 15, 2015, 15:40:38 pm
Yupp :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Griebel on August 15, 2015, 17:13:43 pm
Awsome,-congrats  :) 8)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: richie on August 15, 2015, 20:05:35 pm
Awsome,-congrats  :) 8)

x2

Well done 8)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Erlend / bug66 on August 15, 2015, 23:47:17 pm
Time to put some lighter wheels with light tires on. Good thing I stripped my R&P, so you can borrow some real wheels :)


Let's get you even deeper in to the 12's!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 16, 2015, 18:42:13 pm
Thanks guys! ;D

The run felt really good and the car pulled hard, so was anxious to see what time I had produced when driving back to the pits.
Along the way I got stopped by Folke and Jon, since they seemed very excited I got my hopes up for a nice timeslip and when they told me 12.49, the feeling I got was indescribable! Finally the hard work was starting to pay off!

I'am specially pleased to have done it on my old cheepo kumho solus tires and full interior with the big heavy speaker box I built in the back. If feel the street car bit of the challenge is well taken care off! :)

Sadly I didn't get any other good runs in this weekend since the engine wouldn't play ball anymore.
After cleaning the jets, checking valves etc, I think I narrowed it down to a faulty plug, so should be an easy fix.

Next on the list is getting some lighter tires/rims for racing and with some more track time I might see it into the very low 12's!

And of course big thanks to all the guys organizing SCC and making it possible for me to race my car and have the time of my life.  8)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: JeeWee on August 18, 2015, 20:37:39 pm
Congratulations Anders! Now I have read your thread I am even more impressed! Very nice job done and impressive results!

Thanks again for borrowing your other beetle at SCC and be so kind to us to give us a taxi to supermarket and using the grill!


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 20, 2015, 08:48:50 am
Thanks, and it was the least we could do when you guys made the extra effort and traveled all the way from Holland to SCC! :)


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: Anders on August 31, 2015, 15:12:10 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpMZKENsWnY

Video of the run.. Starting to get the hang of shifting with dog rings.


Title: Re: 12sec 1776 challenge
Post by: darkmatter on September 01, 2015, 22:27:33 pm
Great machine - great sound!