The Cal-look Lounge

I finally decided to introduce my  VW project.  I am so sorry to say that will not be a cal-look style car...actually i am not  ;D

First years ( about 10 years ) it was mixture of...something.  It started as '72 1300 model, rusty, green, swingaxle and drums all around   :P  First engine was of course hopped up 1600cc with drla carb, and then dual carbs. Later was 1835cc, and with all stock chrome + 16" porsche look a like wheels. Last engine was 2276cc with dual carbs and then for a while with fuel injection.  At that point car was, well, uh, unique, roll cage, wide fenders, no bumpers, same 16" wheels etc. Ugly as hell, but it got looks at our small town :D

(http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2811/kupla1999.jpg)

(http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/755/p1010053c.jpg)



Roughly about 4 years, destination has been clear.  I did decide to make it totally from ground up. So i sold most of the old parts.   The new look will be a GERMANLOOK with really fast and reliable tech.  

Something like this:

(http://static.skynetblogs.be/media/68889/dyn003_original_800_533_pjpeg__cb74dbd47d09b06528597f63802fef82.jpg)

Body is now under rustrepairs , and it gets 3cm widened early style CSP fenders to front and back 6cm widened early style fenders, no elephant foot taillights  :P

Also ofcourse rollcage is added and black recaro seats  :)

Wheel+tire combo will be 18" Porsche oe alloys and 225/40 + 265/35 rubber.


Engine will be:


-2789cc engine

-TF1 case and Nickies + JE's

-SCAT 86 flanged crank

TP Billet heads + 48x38 valves etc.

-Megasquirt + CB 48 TB's

-JPM cam + Udo's lifters

-Drysump

-TP 911 fanshroud for his heads

-Front oilcooler

-Stainless exhaust..



Transaxle:


-Berg bus 5-speed

-All weddle gears: 3.44-1.93-1.3-1.00-0.77 + 4.13 r&p

-Peloquin torsen diff


Suspension and brakes

-Mendeola A-arm front suspension

-944 turbo rear aluarms

-Remmele uniball system

-QA1 coilovers

-18mm swaybar

-330x28 and 300x24 ap rotors with custom hats..

-996 front calipers at front and 986 front calipers at back

Some parts designed and some gathered around four years:


(http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/2015/240520122.jpg)

(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7000/25072012.jpg)

(http://imageshack.us/a/img838/6460/fms1.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x632q90/577/kzwa.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x632q90/585/0ms7.jpg)

(http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/6679/02052011.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/842x632q90/18/axti.jpg)

(http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/1687/020620113.jpg)

(http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/7470/hyf9.jpg)

(http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/3714/bl8p.jpg)

(http://www.autotune.fi/data/th/c_atdriveboard4.jpg_35c_2a8.jpg)

(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/4104/75g6.jpg)

Wow.
That list of parts sounds more expensive than my house! lol
(I have a very small little house, but still.........).

SSSHHHHH!!!! Don't tell them it's not Cal look..........

Yeah but you can't race your house :D

He can always sleep in his car ;)

Lot's off Nice things....don't mind it's not callook.   (Yet )

Yeah, i am guy who likes almost all kind of cars...except 99% of  bimmers and some not for purpose built cars ;D

Here is some rustrepair done, and mendeola installation. Not exactly a rust free california car  ;)

(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/1717/fyx2.jpg)

(http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/9577/r5cd.jpg)

(http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/6921/ucq1.jpg)

(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/50/o3gq.jpg)

(http://img547.imageshack.us/img547/3010/3auk.jpg)

(http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/3484/3de8.jpg)

Wow!! What a awesome set of parts! I like where you're going with your car.  You will be able to "have it all" with a car built this way.

As much as I love Cal-look cars I also really like German look cars as well. Both styles / types can haul a$$ but the German Look type will probably stop and handle better.  Can't wait to see the progress! Best of luck with this Project!

X2!
 ;)

Me too.
Now that you mention it, I just like the "Volkswagen" look the best!  ;)

Quick question though, genuine one coz I don't have any experience with the front end you're running, are there any benefits to this double-A-arm style (part from maybe adjustability I guess) compared to a well set up and mildly modded 1303 strut or aftermarket strut set up?

I have no personal experience about comparison between mendeola a-arm and superbeetle strut suspension.    But accordingly to mendeola, this should be better than superbeetle suspension  ;D       But i think if you can design properly double a-arm suspension and single arm strut suspension from scratch, double a-arm should be better. 

http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f91/educate-me-macpherson-struts-vs-double-wishbone-86573/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_wishbone_suspension


Also think that 70's beetle looks better with early -67 fenders + 911 lights (that wine red beetle) than  1303  :D

Hi Alex.

I thought the Mendeola was a 'bolt on' but see you welded the bottom to the floorpan?

Yeah, mendeola is weld-on, but it aligns with bolts, as you can see.  Just ordered some lasercut parts for rollcage, i was thinking to connect the rollcage to mendeola bulkhead.


(http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4650/75jz.jpg)

Bodywork continues....not exactly a MAT (http://"http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=gallery&gallery=13") standard, but good enough for me.

Will be smoothed and  finished before paint, just like SePi's beetle interior (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Z-8m5N4AUHE/UJkP3q6gCcI/AAAAAAAAO3M/SwwxQlJ_9SA/s700/P1110227.JPG).  

Got a really bad rap about the work on Finnish VW forum from "Pro's"  ???

As far as i did understand, there was no ready and small sheetmetal parts for this. It actually looks a lot better with naked eyes.

Maybe at spring time i will buy again some parts, doesnt matter what first, i'v been drooling Goodridge 811 hose connectors (i need many of them( and JPM valvestuff  ;D

Just recently i got great idea, i want bumpers (carbonfiber ofcourse), but what about bumperbrackets? Maybe lasercut from 3mm aluminum, for sure light enough  :)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/820x615q90/843/24oo.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/820x615q90/839/o949.jpg)

Some people DO get a bit precious at times about their own personal 50 year old cheap economy car, so that translates into how everybody else should do theirs I guess.

I'd rather see the thing driving for 10 years than sitting in a shed saving enough cash for the "Pro's" to do it.
Keep at it man, don't let them get you down.

Sheetmetal work done more, just now left some small welding and rollgage.  I got those inner panels from Avery's Aircooled, now the inside looks so clean.


(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/844/hk33.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/836/2pwn.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/845/8jh8.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/841/7npi.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/836/03q5.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/836/592v.jpg)

Might try to fit  different drysump tank, which i'd like to fit near the transaxle outside of cabin.  Only problem is that there will be a 5 bar shock tower support, so i designed a slim one..

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/843/ipcg.jpg)

Few days ago i emailed to JPM, to order Raptor 282@ cam and Wasp header  ;D

He must be at holiday now, not yet answered  ???

I am thinking Wasp stage 2 header, 220 to 290hp, should be okay? Waiting opinion from Johannes.

(http://img.clearsearch.se/mysite/rendermedia/11/25/4598c9a1-33bf-4137-ad8a-b0c3cbea1b68_LARGE.jpg)

I would love to try that header! I think the only negative thing for me is that the pipes don't allow the use of the stock thermostat that controls the shutters in the fan shroud.

I am only relying to oilthermostat, since TP heads does not allow stock style fanshrouds, must use specially designed 911 style fanshroud for his heads.

Probably forgotten to show transaxle, here it is:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/675x506q90/838/c17k.jpg)

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/675x506q90/69/0nl1.jpg)

Sheetmetalworks almost done, we are now fitting the rollcage.  Door, seatbelt and baars to the mendeola and rear will be added.  Doorbaar will be littlebit lower than before (http://"http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/uB0zfi.jpg"), because car will be streetcar and trackdaycar.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/633/xfzZXb.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/F0Odb0.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/4WIFa7.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/A2zPtN.jpg)

Also ordered today Racers Edge adapter bolts for 944 aluarms to get QA1 coilovers to fit.

http://www.paragon-products.com/Racers-Edge-Rear-Shock-Mount-p/re_mc7000.htm

That is a very nice build! Congratulations!

Thanks Frallan!    Sheetmetal work has been a little slow at start, but now were are doing fine, but as usual, i suspect that getting it painted may take 3-5 weeks. I do have only small garage, so its better to get done the sheetmetal work with ex-coworker who is professional autoboy painter. 

Few days ago we test fitted the seat, fits well and good position with prototype seat frame, i might get eventually a shorter one.  Otherwise Recaro seat is tight fit at beetle, sidebars need one bend at least. I insisted to put sidebar front end to low enough, because i am not building a full racecar. 

We did put some support from main hoop to rear torsionbar tubes. 


Would anybody recommend tube / brace from rollgage to mendeola suspension frame to get extra protection at side / front collision?


(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/u1P8Ex.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/910/1A90EL.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/hoshkY.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/Wj0Bvv.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/633/JtoZEl.jpg)

How do you adjust camber and castor on the front ends.I see it has no accentic adjuster under the top ball joint for camber so I'm curious as I no fak all about  a arm suspensions...

Thanks
Fabo

Mendeola suspension doesnt have adjustable Caster, but it has adjustable Camber at lower a-arm eccentric bolts:

(http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/4713/mendeolaetujousitus1.jpg)

If the front suspension design is "sound", aka well thought out and tested there usuallly isn't a reason to
make caster adjustable. Caster angle mostly affects self centering and straight line stability of the steering.
Although in some rare cases you may want to add some caster to the "ditch" side of the road, to compensate
the radius of the road profile. Rain water has to flow towards the ditches.... This concers mostly cars with very
sensitive steering feedback, car pulls to the ditch side of the road even if the wheel alignment is correct. 

Alex -- Great Build -- I would love to find a berg 5 speed bus trans somewhere -- I have a couple of suggestions before you get to far along --

First -- since I've had my Ghia on the ground for a while I found that I wished that I had done a 3" narrowing on each side of the torsion bar -- it would allow a lot more rear tire in there and it would make it easier to fit them too -- -- it basically gets the torsion arms out of the way, but you can still use the stock length axles with modified swing arms -- you can never have too much tire on the back when you have a big engine -- -- I'm at 2989 with a turbo

second -- I would run your back bars back into the luggage area so that you can tie into the frame horns (like you would see on a Lumus 6 point cage) -- once your start adding HP you will need this tied in to stiffen everything up ---- ---

I found this reference for building a cage so that it conforms to NASA rally (SCCA) specs -- good reference info

http://www.nasarallysport.com/rules-forms/2012-NASA-Rally-Sport-GRR-Appendix-B.pdf

Third -- I would recommend building an intake so that you can use a single throttle body -- I'm running a 70mm off a Mustang -- Multiple TB's look cool but are a total headache

I love the german look -- good luck with your project

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/20140712_121133_zps1a0dfd00.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/20140712_121133_zps1a0dfd00.jpg.html)

It looks like these rules are almost the same as our national regarding rally/track cars, metric tubing sizes are exactly
the same. NHRA and our local sanctioning body seem to share the same rules but the NASA vs NHRA requirements
regarding the roll cage tube sizing differ a lot. I ran into this years back while I was thinking of going towards
combined track/drag car. No worky situation.....   

But i told, i am not racing in any class - when talking about rollcage.  Only  street, highway and occasional trackdays :)   Sidebar WILL be low enough at front for easy going in and out.

About framehorns - i do have 5-bar käfer cup brace, should help a lot.

All the different sanctioning bodies and their different rules suck -- -- BUT if you have a cage in the car and go to a track they will want you to conform to their rules or better -- I find that when I go drag racing -- they Hate my 1 1/2" bars -- but they are legal in SCCA -- and you have to have all the 'correct' harnesses etc etc etc.....

You should see the HATE I got when I wanted to go Lands Speed Racing -- my cage doesn't even begin to meet SCTA specs -- so I'm stuck in the street 130 mph or 150 mph classes, but they don't allow E85 in the street classes -- so I don't get to even participate

STREET car........  ;)

For my car, I've sometimes thought about a bar running alongside/above/inside the front heater channel, meeting up with another bar that runs across the front inside the firewall, as a possibility to provide a bit of protection for the footwell area without being too intrusive.
Perhaps that could tie in with a low-mounted door side-bar?

My cage is tied in the front beam

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/20140531_1027071_zps1f641c45.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/20140531_1027071_zps1f641c45.jpg.html)

(http://i586.photobucket.com/albums/ss306/Fiatdude/20140712_121359_zpsac664199.jpg) (http://s586.photobucket.com/user/Fiatdude/media/20140712_121359_zpsac664199.jpg.html)

There is less room with mendeola front end, but its possible to put tube between it and rollcage. I am waiting some pics from Coolrydes  http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401807&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=1220&sid=8cf8826d94a594df17c700b66a3db039

Now fits the seat with doorbars, and doors can be actually closed. Seats are quite wide, so doorbars had to be bent from two locations. Testfitting rear coilovers..


(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/674/jJ8ZlK.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/905/K3GAoM.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/Ib9kUd.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/742/xzgZSa.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/901/mX4uv5.jpg)

As you aren't trying to conform with any rule book why not make the door bars removable? there are some real good joints available to do this, then you can leave them out normally, also with all the factory sheet metal in the front I wouldn't add a bar to the beam, it will be so stiff if ever you have an accident it will do more harm than good, there will be no crumple zone at all and particularly on the road a minor accident could end up doing you a lot of harm

cheers Richie

Ok, good points.  I thought of making sidebars removable, as they are not yet welded.  But going in and out is not so bad, atleast compared to old cage's doorbaars.  You dont see so much cages that are tied to front axle, at on least semi-street cars etc.  But it still gets me thinking, because at legs there is no any kind of protection at front collision.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=445097

But at least if you had them removable you could have them at the correct height[ between elbow and shoulder when you are seated and strapped in if I remember correctly] which yours at the moment aren't which would keep more tech inspectors happy :o ;)


cheers Richie

Still, car is not a racecar, or racing at any class.

It should relativily easy to put tubes to front bars like mendeola did:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/909/D8UJFf.jpg

I don't agree with Richie and I would definitely add some tubes from the cage to the front suspension. With this kind of suspension it'll probably still be less stiff then a stock beam beetle and as for the crumple zones I wouldn't use a space where my legs are as a crumple zone.

I like the idea of tubes from cage to mendeola bulkhead also, it should protect at front side impact and front impact too. 

Just out of curiosity - could you tell me what's the spring rate on the front mendeola coilovers? It should be written somwhere on them.

Hello, Springrate is 225lbs, i think they are 9" long.  I havent bought yet rear coilovers, i need to figure springrate for them first.

So far here we are, 99% of sheetmetal work done, and yes, we did put plastic body filler, but only a thin layer, because lines were so straight at repaired places.   Unfortunately, i have to postpone painting to next year when budget allows.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/910/xfp6UM.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/9AdsAz.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/GEiXAI.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/iO3UAn.jpg)

Car has been few months at my garage, doing some little fixings.   I just might change the painter when its time to paint.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/vP9hWH.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/538/RCyOHA.jpg)

Also bought few german parts for german car at spring :)


(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/912/aHySi1.jpg)

Done some paint removing etc small jobs :)  Roof is  bald now :D

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/540/PT2Qiu.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/913/nBBA20.jpg)

nice one! loving the porsche cooling shroud, who makes that one?

i'd be interested in the quality of the linkage too as i was thinking of making a cable linkage but that looks easier

Hello,

The shroud is made by Thorsten Pieper from Germany (he makes also the drysump pump, tool steel lifters etc).

Hoses to front oilcooler goes trough pan, one hole is needed to mendeola bulkhead (plate behind front plate).



(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/538/3pTvEw.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/ZuFBE1.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/ADVmzZ.jpg)

I'v decided to put the drysump tank to inside cabin, like most of germanlookers what i have seen:

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/xgJCXo.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/537/0bfOb6.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/vQsfUs.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/661/NeOfnc.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/Q9wd6a.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/BZmYrI.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/4vztvQ.jpg
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/673/HtASkk.jpg

It looks like that few things at body  must be redone again or re-repaired

Nosepiece doesnt fit at right side wery well, tried csp front fender there is about 10-15mm gap between it and fender.

Rear sides needs also redoing, too bumpy and distorted repairs now.

Small things needs fixing, inner fender at right side has few small holes.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/910/NGtBIA.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/911/XB9v3C.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/633/QadbL3.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/911/NDKkYs.jpg)

I did assemble at weekend these steel prototype brake parts, hats for AP 330x28 rotors and bracket for Porsche 996 calipers. (Rears are 300x24 with leftover 986 front calipers).

They fit great, spindle seems to turn enough until it hits to lower A-arm. Now very close to the correct design, which for i will be using aluminum. Now at all steel these are heavy as hell :D


In a month or so i start bodywork again, too cold now and not enough sun :)

Also bought my first own Mig welder about two months ago :)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/921/JrIqic.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/qfyKfz.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/AtqH3g.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/hMvdGC.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/mBCMR9.jpg)
(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/921/tBl9zE.jpg)

Amazing stuff  :o

In a past week i have been fitting berg bus 5-speed.. let the pictures tell most of the story.

Because of the big engine, Rancho etc recommended aluminum bushes instead of rubber bushes with berg mounts.

I did cut the torsionbar tube area at right, but thin sheetmetal above needed just little hammer only.

First i thought of putting hard urethane bushes, and then bigger rubbers  75x50 with threaded M12 ends. Problem with midmount rubber brackets that they may hit to 944 alu IRS arms, so i designed lasercut highstrengt steel 15mm/10mm  flat offset steel midmount, instead of rectangular tube.

Any comments? To each end it can handle 350kg loads where 75x50 rubbers are.

(http://imageshack.com/a/img922/5240/KixPmi.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/6166/BIzu0i.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/4774/ikFKsY.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/1093/6eHRe0.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img921/4096/UPfLQ8.jpg)

(http://imageshack.com/a/img923/3646/onP86M.jpg)

At winter / spring i got fitted the twopiece rollcage properly, now it is more symmetrical and coworker visited at garage for welding.



(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/KNxOHf.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/zzPfHC.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/Z2t75a.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/BqpjnC.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/IUMYzW.jpg)

Also bought nice drysump tank, which holds about 6-7 litres of oil and at the bottom 2 litres below scawenge line.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/jiDwGi.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/924/Zd3PPG.jpg)

Just recently i got my Wasp stage 2 muffler, and it fits really well with 944 turbo rear arms and 4-piston calipers. Looks like i have a lot of room.

Wasp header also did fit with ease  :)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/paPUTM.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/2PBIWw.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/xFUAAF.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/NrjSJz.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/lnPZg6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/922/o6bHjf.jpg)


Transaxle needed more room, so cutting was needed to body and patch was made.. Still, far away from paint.



(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/922/dUG4mY.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/zlwVFF.jpg)

I was going to fabricate 911 / T2 style rear engine mount, but i think bumper mounts arent designed for constant vibration and stress. Berg traction bar would work, but it is little bit crude. 

Seems like there is a lot of high hp cars without traction bar and they work fine. I think truss bars / käfer cup braces work as well. Also i have wide transaxle midmount with the 5- bar käfer cup brace.