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Title: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: rebel on August 17, 2007, 08:17:14 am My buddy is thinking about building a contemporary version of 48 IDA fed Old School 1700 FAT Performance style engine.
The main rule is - low budget, stock stroke, hardly no chance for 'real' 88s. How would you do it guys? I'd like to know more the technical side of the story, than the 'nostalgia' stuff. I mean the task is how to make a stock stroke 1700 IDA fed Lil' Monster with mostly off the shelf parts? My point of view is: AS41 VW case, 69mm counerweighted cank Mahle 87s Stock VW conrods with ARP bolts Stock VW heads reworked for 40x37 valves, ported, polished. Engle W110 Straight cut timing gears Merged 1 5/8 header + QP 48 IDAs Bosh 010 dizzy Kennedy 1700 Pressure Plate what are your opinions/expieriences? Detailed spec please. Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Bewitched666 on August 17, 2007, 14:32:29 pm 87 pistons wont make a 1700cc engine.
List looks great,for some serious hp i would go for a w130 cam. I would say you have a great list,in the 80's i have build a almost similar mouse engine only with a w120 cam instead of the w110. And i had 40 dells on in and no IDA'S,made some serious horsepower back then and some nice passes on the 1/4 mile. I would say build it,its a great and fun engine. Btw go for a 12lbs flywheel ;D Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Jim Gillum Racing on August 17, 2007, 14:58:22 pm My buddy is thinking about building a contemporary version of 48 IDA fed Old School 1700 FAT Performance style engine. CB Performance sells 88mm thick wall P&C's. You will have to machine the heads and case. I would use a Engle 125 cam with VW 1.25 ratio rockers. With the valve size you are using I would go with 36mm chokes in the IDA's. The rods should be shot peened also. I used this combo for over ten years and at least 2000 passes on my Karmann Ghia and went as quick as 12.85 at 102 mph. The VW rod big end finally let go.The main rule is - low budget, stock stroke, hardly no chance for 'real' 88s. How would you do it guys? I'd like to know more the technical side of the story, than the 'nostalgia' stuff. I mean the task is how to make a stock stroke 1700 IDA fed Lil' Monster with mostly off the shelf parts? My point of view is: AS41 VW case, 69mm counerweighted cank Mahle 87s Stock VW conrods with ARP bolts Stock VW heads reworked for 40x37 valves, ported, polished. Engle W110 Straight cut timing gears Merged 1 5/8 header + QP 48 IDAs Bosh 010 dizzy Kennedy 1700 Pressure Plate what are your opinions/expieriences? Detailed spec please. Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Bryan67 on August 17, 2007, 15:35:13 pm If you are going to go with 88`s then why not 90.5`s? And if you are going to go with 90.5`s then why not go with 94`s? Best bang for your buck.
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: deano on August 17, 2007, 17:46:07 pm My buddy is thinking about building a contemporary version of 48 IDA fed Old School 1700 FAT Performance style engine. The main rule is - low budget, stock stroke, hardly no chance for 'real' 88s. How would you do it guys? I'd like to know more the technical side of the story, than the 'nostalgia' stuff. I mean the task is how to make a stock stroke 1700 IDA fed Lil' Monster with mostly off the shelf parts? My point of view is: AS41 VW case, 69mm counerweighted cank Mahle 87s Stock VW conrods with ARP bolts Stock VW heads reworked for 40x37 valves, ported, polished. Engle W110 Straight cut timing gears Merged 1 5/8 header + QP 48 IDAs Bosh 010 dizzy Kennedy 1700 Pressure Plate what are your opinions/expieriences? Detailed spec please. I ran a Fleming & Aronson-spec 1700cc on the street for years, so here are my comments... I think an 1-5/8 will be too big for that engine considering the rpm range with a 110 cam. I only ran stock exhaust valves with mine, and ran a 1-1/2-inch system. And finally, I am not a big fan of 87s..... I would rather see you run 90.5mm any day of the week. Have fun. Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: nicolas on August 17, 2007, 19:45:58 pm yep 87's make a 1641 and that is what i am running. with a W110 it is a great engine. it works off trottle and goes well beyond 5500 rmps. as deano says, 87's are not the best as they have the same base as a 85,5 (stock) piston, but thinner walls. if you want is 'correct', go with the machined 88's or the 90,5's .
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: speedwell on August 17, 2007, 19:51:53 pm 87 pistons wont make a 1700cc engine. what understand by "some serious horsepower" ??? have you a idea how much HP we could draw out of an engine like that ::)List looks great,for some serious hp i would go for a w130 cam. I would say you have a great list,in the 80's i have build a almost similar mouse engine only with a w120 cam instead of the w110. And i had 40 dells on in and no IDA'S,made some serious horsepower back then and some nice passes on the 1/4 mile. I would say build it,its a great and fun engine. Btw go for a 12lbs flywheel ;D rgd speedwell what did Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Shubee2 (DSK) on August 17, 2007, 19:55:39 pm Most of The 1679 Motors Back in the 70's Ran this combo
VW Dual Bypass Case 69 mm CW Crank thick wall 88's Engle w-120 cam Engle or German Lifters Engle Dual Springs 40x35 Big Valve Heads (Mild Oval Port unwelded) compression ratio about 9 to 1 48 IDA's on short Manifolds and Berg Linkage 010 Dist. 1 1/2 Qt deep sump case tapped for full flow Fram HP-1 Oil Filter & Mount attched to the Traction bar with a U Clamp Berg Blue Printed oil Pump 12 lb flywheel 1700 lb Kennedy Press plate stock size Santana Pulley 12 Volt Blue Coil (German Tan Top) stock rockers with Berg H.D.Stafts swivel Feet adjusters 3/8 chromemoly Pushrods 1 1/2 Merged Exhaust with a Single or Dual QP Muffler 36 or 40 H.P. Fan Shroud Sheet metal all Painted Gloss Black Chrome Parts: gen. Back Plate,Gen.Pulley,Coil Strap,Dist.Clamp,Dip Stick,Gen. or Alt Strap,and Chrome stock Oil Filler and Cap. That is a 70's (1679 Old School Motor) most of these motors ran mid to high 13's depending on the head work and Compression Picture Below Has Tall Manifolds and A Polished 009 Dist But You Get the Idea. Dont Need All That Aftermarket Crap On Your Motor Just Clean Simple And Tastefully Detailed.... Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Bewitched666 on August 17, 2007, 20:40:17 pm Speedwell i have read that some guys made some 120-130 hp outta such engine ;D
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Jim Gillum Racing on August 17, 2007, 21:00:00 pm Mine did, 128 to be exact.
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: speedwell on August 17, 2007, 22:22:36 pm Speedwell i have read that some guys made some 120-130 hp outta such engine ;D no so bad for that displacement , but with this number of HP , the engine will have one rather long lifespan?? or a faster wear on the level of driving bottom ???Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: deano on August 18, 2007, 00:04:19 am Yup, mine made 122hp on F&A's dyno with 9.0:1. I saw up to around 128hp with a similar combination back then...
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Jim Gillum Racing on August 18, 2007, 00:14:41 am I must confess, I had 11.5 to 1 compression. :-[
Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Lee.C on August 18, 2007, 00:14:46 am All good info guys - there is also some good points in this thread ;) :)
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?topic=2179.0 Also we can run bit higher CR over here in the UK as we can get 99octane pump gas ;) :) Title: Re: Old School 1700 FAT Performance Engines Post by: Jim Gillum Racing on August 18, 2007, 01:06:52 am I was using 100 octane unleaded racing gas from Unical. Still do with my current engine with 9 to 1.
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