The Cal-look Lounge

Hello,

I have restored a 1968 1200 standard model Beetle and have tried to make it look fairly period correct - Forumla Vee wheels, fat biscuit interior, hex T bars, no modern gauges etc.

Shortly after I built it I decided my engine was too modern looking for the rest of the car. I have changed the 45 DRLA for a pair of IDA on short reverse manifolds, and have just bought a Deano swivel linkage to replace the CSP. I have also bought a Magneto to replave the CB dizzy. What else would you suggest I change to look more traditional cal look?

Any suggestiong for the breather box?
As soon as I have some more money I will replace the sump and rocker covers for DDS or Race Trim, and I would like some Deano manifolds.
I'm un-decided on the black fittings for the breathers. I think they look more smart than just a hose clip but I know they are not period correct either.
Should I fit the stock velocity stacks?

Basically, Im looking for advice / opinions from you guys that were around 'back in the day' on how to improve my car :)

How it looks now:

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/10457774_737735176290908_7617498728691042595_n.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/10295695_737735119624247_3169057848552637361_n.jpg)

Cheers,
Mabbo

Good morning Neil ;D,

I'm probably not going to be much help :D, but both of Keith Seume's Cal Look bibles would help I think, unless you have them already 8)

:)
Martin.

Morning Martin,

Iv read them, prob still have them somewhere. More than likely in my moms loft.

Hope your well anyway mate.

Personally I don't think many would have had all those parts, you were more likely to see a german 009, blue coil, IDAs on Empi or generic manifolds, stock valve covers, Berg sump, maybe a Santana pulley with stock original top pulley etc than the collector type pieces[DDS, Race trim, Truhaft etc] and a small breather box

cheers Richie  

Cheers Richie.

I did consider an 009 or 010, but a Magneto came up for sale and I love the way they look.

I'm currently running stock valve covers so will keep those and look for a small breather box. What sort of breathers were popular back in the day? I have read about people running a hose from each rocker cover with a slit over the gearbox to vent - I wont be doing that :)

Thanks again.

If you got the mag already then run it 8) hopefully your linkage will clear it?

I don't know if there were any fabbed breather boxes back then, all I can think of is the small rectangle box like the DDS and Race trim boxes, there were several versions available with and without logo's but all similar in size and style

cheers Richie

Someone much more in the know than me told me to be correct for back in the 70s with a Mag its important to have the correct brown cap, cant remember if it was a top entry or right angled entry to the cap though, all in the details ;)

richie , someone said to me that those breather box (small one DDS racetrim etc..) don't breathe correctly  big engine , just small displacement
is that true ??

I think you can't really make a strocker engine breath through the valve covers and the size of the breather box will not be that important. Oil return from the heads through the pushrods tube. Adding a breathed valve covers help the oil to return to the case because valve covers no more are airtight and help siphoning the oil from the heads to the case. If oil puke through the breather box, it's because there is still too much pressure in the case and the oil is pushed to the breather box.
On a bigger engine, adding a venting through the fuel pump hole seems to me a better option.

On the other hand, I'm not an engine builder or experienced hot rod VW guru, but that's something I've got some thinking  :D

You have a beautiful car there. But if you want to be totally period correct, a true period cal look car wouldn't have trim. It would also use Lucas turn signals and shave the originals. Also you saw a lot of color matched headlight rings.

(http://reoriginals.com/ProductImages/L0285x.jpg)

And although period correct, and even though I had a set of those same wheels on my '67 back in '77, the early Rivies weren't very popular. All the cool kids were running Empi 8's, later Rivies, Sprint Stars, Centerlines, and of course Alloys, on late model cars.

Burg Linkage, blue coils, 009's, and Santana pulleys were common. Hurst or DDS shifters were popular too.

-jeffrey

Good looking car you've got there. I would swap out the alternator for a generator, and put a Santana pulley on the crank. A power pulley will give the best look, if you can afford the cooling loss. Some chrome tips on the QP's would be a nice touch also.

from what I have seen the engines of the era ran real VW stale air fan housings (with the indent clearance for stock air filter in top-center). Stock IDA air horns, not the Jaycee ones. Low gloss black finish on shrouds. And no breather. Most guys ran the dump-hose right off stock VW filler down through rear tin and/or breather hose up over trans, connecting each valve cover, with a small cut at highest point over hose. Somewhere there's a thread of DKP at Featherly Park 1972 here with the pics you need to see. Nice car.

have a look.... http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,17153.msg248244.html#msg248244

I was looking at cars built in the mid-seventies when I was building my cars in the late-seventies . . . SO, what year do you consider 'Back in the day'?

I always had the backing plate chromed before bolting it to my Motorola alternator.
I could afford to have just a few things chromed . . . at the chrome plating shop!  At that time, the cheap, pre-chromed junk was not drowning us yet!

+1 on the Santana pulley & stock VW rocker covers for my cars.

Self improvement tip>> lift and tuck the muffs.....   Nice car, .... just keep it simple and clean..!!

I too sold Lucas lights and 48 IDAs out of the same store on 1515 N. St. College when it was owned be BAP/Geon

Thanks for all the replys guys :)

As for the body, I know it wouldn't have had the chrome but when I restored it I wanted to keep the body as close to factory as possible. As its a 1200 base model the indicator housings are painted body colour - which I like as you don't see many. I'm not a big fan of the way Lucas indicators look on late wings either.

I want my car to look how someone may have built it late 70's. Someone commented on Rivieras not being popular in the late 70's and the cool kids were running Empi 8's or Sprints etc... I don't mind not being in the cool crew ;) I don't really mind if the car has parts that weren't popular, as long as they don't look out of place. I chose the Rivs as they are not very common and were around in the 70's. I didn't want a repro wheel and loads of people run Sprints.

So, were there any big differences between mid to late 70's styles, and early 80s? I don't mind if its not 100% correct - I just don't want modern parts like MSD ignition, billet top pulley, turbo muffler, autometer gauges that you see so often. I will change out the Jaycee stacks for the stock ones.

A few have mentioned a Santana pulley... I will keep an eye out for an original :) Also, I would like a dynamo, but my Alternator is brand new. I will change to a dynamo when the alternator gives up.

I had already planned to chrome the muffler tips at some point, I spent ages looking for a Thunderbird or similar duel quiet pack with flared tips but couldn't find anything, so went with one from Richie as it had flare tips that I could chrome later ;)

What are peoples opinions on the Berg 207 breather box - http://www.geneberg.com/images/IMG_4046%20(Small).JPG
When were these available?

Some very cool pictures on the DKP road trip thread. There are a few more than I expected that ran the chrome trim. I have to say, I love Mark Thurber's dash.

Another current engine pic if anyone is interested:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2708.jpg

I would like to change the black fittings for the breather hoses too I think.

Thanks again for your comments,

Mabbo

I would loose the aftermarket 36hp shroud and go with a stock Type 181. Also a Bosch 010 over a mag.

My 2180, while not 100% Cal Look, it's heavily influenced.
(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/2180_3.jpg)

Here's the "period-correct" 1835cc I was running in my rig just before we parted company back in 1972.  What a rat's nest... but it DID run good ;D
As for venting the valve covers and breather boxes... to this day, I still run the vent hose over the trans from one cover to the other with a notch cut
at the high point and no breather box.  Old habits are hard to break.

Those red manifolds are great!

The breather? Just a piece of braided cloth hose running from the oil filler straight down through the engine tin.

in the "how to do it right" encyclopedia of hot rod VW stuff for sure.... right here.

as said before, change alternator to a dynamo, change the dizzy and a blue coil.
here is my version of a tsz-h dizzy from a vanagon in an old housing.
[attachment=1]
[attachment=2]
[attachment=3]
[attachment=4]

what about an modified oilfilter for breatherbox?
seen on www.oval56.com

http://www.oval56.com/bilder/Motoransicht.JPG
http://www.oval56.com/bilder/181106%2004.jpg

or a breather box on the alternatorstand from a 356/912 model?

and maybe change the carb linkage to a berg..?

Thanks

Glenn,

Love your engine, and your car for that matter. I would have gone for an 010 direct from you, but a Magneto came up for sale fairly local and I really like the way they look, and its something a little different from the norm... From photos Iv seen, it looks like a few people used them in the 70s/80s - Not as popular as an 009 or 010, but more in keeping with the theme than a CD / Petronix / MSD :)

Sarge - Cool pic. Those red manifolds are ace.

So, I fitted the DDS linkage. I had to put a slight bend in one of the arms to clear the Mag:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2801.jpg)

Magneto:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2804.jpg)

I also decided to replace the 36hp shroud with a 181 style shroud. I took a stock doghouse shroud, drilled the spot welds out the bottom corners so that the
air that went to the snorkels now goes over the heads:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2785.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2783.jpg

Trial fitted the flaps - They required some trimming but they all clear ok now, so I welded up the snorkels ready for prep and paint:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/IMAG2793.jpg)

I will fit that once I have decided on a breather to replace the CSP box.

Cheers for all your advice guys :)

nice linkage ;)

engine looks more period correct , change the alternator to a dynamo , the breather , and for me , would go for non shiny paint for the tins i prefer the "original" color , as an original engine ,  for me john plow(cornpanzers) had a nice period correct enfine  may be richard roth have some photos  ;)

or here's another good example of cal look motor made by DOC DETAILS aka Frenchy

another bice engine , is DUMPER 's engine

A better picture of JP's 2110.
(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/John_Plow_010_2.jpg)

Now there is a great looking engine, is the fanshroud painted in a textured paint or is it just semi gloss?? Also what are people's thoughts on painted cases was this done in the day? Or were they left factory mag?? Cheers Alex

Paint is a crinkly finish.

My only issue are the blue Allen bolts holding the generator stand. That's a Art Thraen trick. I replaced the blue with stainless bolts.


It allows the generator/alternator to be removed without pulling the shroud.
(http://www.glenn-ring.com/engine/images/145_02063.jpg)

Plow's motor and Glenn's... Know what makes these stand out and look "right"? They look as if Volkswagen had intended the engine to run Webers, etc. Nothing that DOESN'T have to be done away with has been. Factory shroud (that works better than the aftermarket ones do) stayed. No flash, all businsess.
The problem with this hobby is the un-dying concern for what something looks like and not so much with the end result as far as function. These engines look "right" becasue they are. Look at Sarge's motor from 1972-ish. I don't think DKP of the era were entirely wrapped up about adhering to some model their engines had to look like. The Top 10 List was all about winning drag races.
the old motor in Wade's black '67 wheelstander... same thing. Nothing flash, just the stuff that made the car haul ass.

The funny thing about the factory... they were pretty smart. I'm using every piece of factory tin including the Hoover Bit and Type 126 (industrial) shields to close off the hole by removing the heater boxes.

2180, stock offset oil cooler, 1.5qt sump and remote filter... it runs as cool as stock.

(http://www.glenn-ring.com/temp/thing_tin_1.jpg)

A few "Pre-Cal" ideas......

356/912 engines used this trick. The rear fasteners (closest to pulley) are bolts, the front uses studs/nuts with slots in the stand. Just remove the hardware and the stand slides out allowing easy removal of the generator assembly. I adapted this trick to AssHull's 1915 (one of countless Porsche influences I gave the car), but the extra bulk of the alternator makes it difficult. Needs a generator to work properly.
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1236139.jpg)

The Cal Look is based on performance, but it is a look. It is a careful balance between function and form, and is slightly different for everyone. I prefer the function of a factory doghouse shroud, but I really like the "less is more" form of a 36hp shroud (which is why I built one out of two German shrouds for AssHull's car). It also makes working in the engine bay easier.

Zach, do you have pics of that 36hp shroud you could post up? I've a Scat that dosen't fit well and I don't want to mod to fit. Like the genny stand trick and have the incerts to do it. May use the Scat just to get it on the road.

I have no idea where the fab pictures are. Looks like a bog standard early 40hp shroud. It was a TON of work. I also added a type 4 cooler and FI venturi ring. Not sure if I would bother doing it again.
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5626.0;attach=43162

Couple of pics for ideas, both from Dave Rhoads :)

picture is from about 1976 after painting green.  Early Berg linkage with the down strap, Deano pulley and 010 dist. on both motors

This is from I believe 1970 before the car was painted green.   It's my 69 X 88 with IDA's.  All cylinders covers and shroud is Deano purple

Thanks Richie

zach ,here's AssHull (http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,5626.0.html) tread

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5626.0;attach=43162;image)

(http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5626.0;attach=43210;image)
 ;)

Thanks for all the replies everyone  ;D

For now I'm going to replace the CSP breather box and replace the fanshroud with the 181 style shroud I'm making. I'm also on the look out for a good condition OG top pulley.

Over the winter I will remove the engine and change a few more things - I'd like a DDS power pulley, remove the paint from the case, maybe replace the alternator with dynamo.

Thanks again, some great pictures and info - really appreciate it  8)

Thanks Fabs. It's hard to copy the pictures from my phone ;)

When did alternators become popular?  I remember buying Colin Burnham's book and looking again and again at that photo of Dumper's engine, which to me is still one of the simplest and best looking Cal Look engines out there.  The book must have been published in the mid 1980s?

Richard

Read the whole A$$hull thread. The shroud build wasn't in there. But nice build anyway. For period builds I'd be looking in the Fisher book or one of Mr. Seume's books. Zach if you run across those pics please lost 'em up.

By the early 80s some of us were making the switch to alternators.

My '67 will be sympathetic to the era I originally built it ('78-83) and I'm planning on running an alternator.

I'm not the best with taking pictures while I work ;) I do remember that I used the lower 2 backing plate holes (to correctly align the backing plate) along with the back and guts from the doghouse shroud. Most of the face and surround were from the early shroud. I had never built one before, I just reverse engineered it and tried to make it as factory appearing as possible. Not difficult, just time consuming.

you're welcome zach  ;)

here's another cal look engine Scott Baken /Aronson replica when the car was a streetable car before she became racer

Wow. The firewall looks like Rhino lineing. I thought they used trunk paint in there?

Nice engine. Looks like it's easy to service and functional. Nice finish on shroud too.  8)

Thanks, Jim. I had it painted to match the wheels, and I was going for a 356SC sorta look there. Only thing I would have changed on that engine is the alternator in favor of a generator, but AssHull had it in stock and it worked.

Hello Zach!
How did you fit the 356/912 oil filler?
Thanks.

Fabricated an aluminium adapter.

Its getting there :)

How it looks now:
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/25351215/Mabbo/sams%20pics/Retro%20Shoot26.JPG)

I will re detail it all over the winter to be less black, more factory.

Looks like John P is selling his engine!  :o :o :o :o

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=2131570

That's a good deal! When I had my engine built, after all the pain and suffering was over I asked what he would charge if someone at a show saw it and wanted exactly the same thing built again. He said, "I wouldn't do it". So I persisted, and said, "Aw c'mon, if some guy pulled up in a Jag wearing his penny loafers and insisted you build another engine, just like my 2332". He then said, "$60,000".

I let out a guffaw, and then he walked away, not laughing.  :o

Here is a couple of pics from when I first bought the car. [attachment=1]

   Here a picture of the engine bay of my 1954 Looker.

  Frenchy

Nailed it..

 Thanks !!!
 Frenchy

When I was searching for parts for my stock 1600 I was looking for period parts and happen to come across a few. Things I've always liked are brown cap blue coils, 019 distributors, and Santana pulleys. You would've never found a Black cap on a Bosch blue coil back in the 70s. They just didn't exist.
As for the Kadrons, I had to cut the air filter mesh in order to fit my washable filters but I wanted to keep that period look without having to use paper filters. The only thing I'd like to change still on this small motor is some yellow Taylor spark plug wires, a 912 generator/breather and a Berg linkage with the blue hammered paint on it.

[attachment=1]