The Cal-look Lounge

Hi does anyone have a photo of one of these headers ( and a muffler ) installed on a sedan?

looking at a stage 1 and matching muffler.

Would like to see how the muffler fits

Thanks

Mee too, i have wasp stage 2 header.  I wonder how high up will the collector comes?   I have two kind of exhaus in my mind with 3" muffler..

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/540/ZnSOWX.jpg

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/674/fB65Q5.jpg

Alex, the muffler we made for my Wasp is kind of like your first example, but the tube has to pass "over" the muffler on a street car to make clearance between the inner fender and the wheel.

Found a pic.

Thanks guys but kinda wondering what the muffler setup CSP has for the Wasp looks like,  funny they have no picutres of it on thier website...
Not sure how they expect to sell any...

Cheers

Are you sure it actually exists yet?

I dont know for sure but it's listed on this web page.

http://www.csp-shop.de/shop/produkte/en/products_exhaust_system_complete_exhaust_system_bug_26005a.html

Its a shame for the $$ that they are not tig welded or aleast it could be an option.

The one in the picture is the first one made by hand. The production one is much better finished!

Yes very true

the one I got its mig -not tig- welded but it's made on an automated machine, not by hand, so much more beautiful than the above picture. I have the impression that tig welding as being not very productive would rise the price of the header enough, just my thought. If I could get the individual pieces unwelded though, I would probably use the tig welding for a single unit

Friendly

Dimitrios

I found the muffler setup from facebook, possibly on sale at december 2014:


(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1024x768q90/674/cB3u8o.jpg)

I'm going to cut and clamp my A1 tailpipe (2.5"/63.5 mm) & Magnaflow muffler to the Wasp Stage 2. I'll post some pictures shortly, showing the positioning on my 68 Beetle.

The muffler is mentioned on that page, but not listed as for sale. So they are still working on it.

Cool, Thanks Amigo!

The muffler should be ready from CSP sometime in December from what I´ve heard.

Here's a picture of my Wasp header mocked up on my '68 Beetle (swingaxle/Z-bar rear end).  There are additional pictures in my build thread: http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,18568.msg311836.html#new

There's more clearance to the rear apron, than I've seen with other brands of headers (you can see the scraping on the apron from my preivous EMPI and Bugpack headers.  I'm probably going to have to reverse the A1 Magnaflow muffler and tailpipe to the left side in order to find clearance (will post muffler photos later).

(http://i57.tinypic.com/2crqae0.jpg)

i had my Stage 1 fitted on Thursday by my friend who runs a speed shop,

will post some pics later, on top of what neil had mentioned , i couldn't get the tins below the pushrods to fit at all. was somehow disappointed with this.


will try to investigate this further once i get back to it.

sorry for the bad pics, was in a hurry . i dint even have time to start it up to hear how it sounded  :(

(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex5_zpsdb4f907a.jpg)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex4_zps47cec18d.jpg)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex2_zpsbe1eef3d.jpg)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex1_zpsb9be680c.jpg)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex6_zps05b05588.jpg)


header was fitted with no mods to it.
i had to
1. redo the muffler part, i reused my exiting muffler, this was expected.
2. readjust the tabs on my CSP mount, this was expected.
3. no probs with my Berg relief cover and lines.
4. removed factory air defector plates under the pushrod. i did not like this, still trying to check what went wrong or maybe my friend installed wrongly, doubt that, please take a look at the angle of the J pipes under cylinder 3-4


these pics are with the old 1.5" merged the wasp replaced.
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/ex3_zps0b4caa6a.jpg)
(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/632_zps0fa94e76.jpg)

Yes, the 3/4 pipe certainly angles sharply down through the lower sled tin.  This wasn't a problem for me, because my previous header had required me to trim the flat part of the sled tin, so there was lots of space.  It looks like the Wasp pipes are further away from the case, so I'll probably find some used tin and re-trim them (to better protect the pushrod tubes from rocks).

The thermostat fits much better with the Wasp, than the Bugpack header.  I had to use a larger dogleg rod from the shroud flaps, on the Bugpack, but just a small one on the Wasp.

Thanks guys I am still watching your progress, It is really hard to tell from pictures but the collector does seem to be significantly lower than most other merge systems, also Neil mentioned that the Berg Bar no longer fits, That's a deal breaker for me.  :(
Cheers

i personally feel it can still be improved on.  fact it was advertised that no mods required on engine tin made me a bit grumpy as i always run 100% engine tin and dont trim nothing.  i will try and put back all the tins .

see the description
http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&wkid=282493964024&rub1=Exhaust%20%2F%20Heating&rub2=Exhaust%20System-Modified%2CComplete%20Exhaust%20Systems%2CBug%2FKarmann%20Ghia&artnr=26005b&pn=0&sort=&all=

the other thing was the kit was supplied with bolt on tabs to secure the pipe's tension during expansion and contraction.  on the old merged i used simple tabs and springs just like on superbikes. both works good, but i prefer the spring option, much easier to work with.

(http://www.ducati.org/forums/attachments/1098-1198/54191d1325907418-exhaust-springs-sany0100.jpg)

Do you need industrial sled tin? Would that work?

Here's a photo showing how the Wasp #3 pipe stops the Berg engine support as you try to raise the bar up to the engine.  I may experiment with creating a larger contact piece to replace the donut mount...perhaps using the Type 2 engine mount stud holes:

(http://i57.tinypic.com/290x9qf.jpg)

Finally got around to test fitting the A1 Magnaflow DRK muffler.  It will only fit on the left side, as the right side is blocked by pipe #2:
(http://i62.tinypic.com/eq19ft.jpg)
Here's a side view.  There's still 25 mm between the muffler and pipe #4, so I'll probably move it a bit close...maybe 10 mm clearance in case of vibration or road bumps.  Will also angle the muffler a bit flatter and weld on a down spout to keep the exhaust from blowing outward:
(http://i60.tinypic.com/dm90sm.jpg)

It's ground clearance that's the deal breaker for us circuit racers or rally crossers, we have to make our own set ups, but it's always been thus[attachment=1].

I was seriously considering a wasp header over the winter but I've got to be honest seeing the pics above I am not too impressed. On a street driven car there seems to be too many compromises :(

agreed

I Will try the set up with the Csp muffler. Hopefully i have it in a few weeks

i have finally managed to drive my car.  i managed to fit it as per pic posted above.  apart from the few issues i have mentioned, i am very happy with how the car sounded now. the higher it revs, the better the sound.  it is a bit lumpy at idle, not much more diff than a normal merged.

next i will try to fit the sled tins or modify them to fit.

(http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee440/pupjoint4/2332cc/image1_zpsb6ab087b.jpg)

Would I be wrong in assuming that the advantage of this header is that it has equal length primary's ?

Thanks in advance

Yes ;)
Many headers are equal length. This is also a step header (tubing gets progressively larger).

Thanks

From what size to what size, if that makes sense

thanks

The Stage 2 starts at 1.625" (41 mm) OD at the exhaust port, and then increases to 1.875" (48 mm) and finally to 2" (51 mm)...checked again and corrected the numbers.  My digital calliper quit working, so I measured with the ruler calliper, and my readings are approximate.

Not sure what the steps are for the Stage 1 & 3.

ok, CSP has revised the description. sled tins/ heater channel tins cannot be used.

http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=detail&artnr=26006a&wkid=91643699368

let me try and fabricate something. 

I notched my Berg engine support (traction bar) to clear the #3 pipe, but the notch ended up being larger than I anticipated.  I had a piece of simliar bar stock handy and had it welded underneath the notch to add strength.  Hopefully, this will do the job.

(http://i60.tinypic.com/169nwq9.jpg)

The Berg oil hoses are contacting the Wasp pipes, so I'll have to either move the oil filter mount, or add longer oil hoses.
(http://i59.tinypic.com/54sygw.jpg)

change the oil filter mounting bracket to a different hand.  they do lhd, rhd and top entry.

Good call. Get the one that will point the inlet/outlet towards the front of the car. Cheap solution.

Good suggestion...the "forward-facing port" filter mount should provide enough slack for the hoses to clear the exhaust pipes :)

Well, switching to the filter mount with "left ports" did the trick.  The Berg oil lines now clear the exhaust pipes nicely:
(http://i61.tinypic.com/96cgi1.jpg)

(http://i62.tinypic.com/52cqpj.jpg)

To keep this all in one thread, here are a couple of pictures showing how I had to slightly trim the "sled tin" to fit the Wasp J-pipes.  It was certainly less material than I've had to trim for other headers in years gone by, approximately 15 mm.

Another option would be to bend the outer lip of the sleds, and then add industrial tin to close everything in.  I may still install some industrial tin in the future, or make by own.  For now, the sled tin should do it's job of routing warm air out to the rear of the engine.

Here is the right side sled tin:

(http://i62.tinypic.com/35d3mlg.jpg)

Left side:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/kcepl.jpg)

bump. anymore Wasp users?

Neil, any feedback from running the Wasp so far? i barely drive mine and will be opening the engine soon for some upgrades.

I haven't driven much, as the weather has been up and down...still snowing and raining.  First race of the season was cancelled yesterday:

(http://i61.tinypic.com/alot9z.jpg)

Here's mine,
Still waiting on a few items for the carbs so haven't driven it yet.

[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

[attachment=3]

And of the muffler setup.

[attachment=4]

[attachment=1]

[attachment=2]

[attachment=3]

Is that a custom flange sleeve in image 5?  Does it just slide over the collector and use a clamp to secure it?  I like it!

Hi Neil,

Yes, it is, I never wanted to interfere with the original stainless header.

And, I'm not a welder but my engine builder is, ( I cut up all the bits to the right angles but he expertly brazed it all together for me ) except for stainless, so, I thought, if I can make a transition flange piece in mild steel, then I don't destroy what it came with, but can add anything I like (stinger) in the future... just through the flange section.

So that's what we did, and if I welded a flange onto the end of the exhaust as it sits, then that's all I can have, I may want to change this 10 times (you know how it goes) so it's perfect I think, the only thing I may do as per other Suzuki hayabusa and other exhausts is a pin so if the clamp fails it still won't fall off.

Not convinced it will ever fall off the way it is until I try it, and there is another strap to the bumper bracket I made to hold the body of the yoshimura muffler (which I've repacked in a 3 stage arrangement) and made sure it is 2 1/2" all the way through. If it doesn't look straight through, it is.

I then of course thought, well I don't want to paint this, or keep painting it, so it got plated...

Soon to see how it all works anyway... just need to tune in the new IDA's...

Greg

hi greg. That is a small power pulley! are you running e85?

No E85, just BP 98 Octane

Well CSP posted this today on their FB page:
[attachment=1]

http://www.csp-shop.com/products/Products/Exhaust_System%2CComplete_Exhaust_System%2CBug/26005a/det/ (http://www.csp-shop.com/products/Products/Exhaust_System%2CComplete_Exhaust_System%2CBug/26005a/det/)

Anyone know what the cylinder is on the pipe before the muffler?[attachment=1]

I would guess a resonator?

Extra weight. Needs cutting off   ;D

Can CSP come with numbers as far as decibel loss with that little device?
or was it intended to help with drone/vibrations at a given RPM range..

Apparently this is the street legal design to give max hp, I cannot see how a pipe being bent 180 degrees on its self will out perform a turbo style muffler like posted above. 
Wondering if it will be better to change an existing muffler to fit as Greg has done above, its cheaper and may produce more power.

I believe that´s because tuned length is more important than a bend.

Yes understand.  But as we know the most efficient exhaust is the stinger - straight through exit.  So is a Turbo style muffler going to be that different in performance than the JSP Muffler?  A question rather than a statement, been waiting a while for these images and trying to justify the extra expense of buying the muffler.  Be interested to see how much the muffler takes from the stinger in HP.

From my own experience I´m not sure if that´s knowledge or myth.

On the Wasp prototype stage I tested the muffler vs. the stinger at the track.
Of about 10-15 runs we ended up with 3 stinger runs and 3 muffler runs where the top speed was identical down to 1/100th of a mile.
Same day, car, driver, weather, track conditions, etc. This was at DDD #11 in 2013.

The difference to the production muffler from mine is that we used an off the shelf muffler for the prototype, but the production one is made for the Wasp from Scratch.
I have not heard the noise level of the production, but the prototype was extremely loud. If all goes well I will do some back to back testing on the production model at SCC this year.

To give an idea how important tuned length is, we tested two Wasp stinger versions on the dyno. One calculated from 3rd order pulse and one 2nd order. Same in and outlet diameter.
We lost 7hp with the shorter 3rd order stinger. That obviously had to be wrong, so we changed back and forth two or three times. 7hp difference every time.  ;)

7HP.
About 3%.
That sounds about right.  ;)

Johnny: Calculations for the exhaust, is that after the collector?

Could you post it, or is it a program that does it?

One option........

http://www.maxracesoftware.com/PIPE395.htm

Erlend, for the calculations best ask Johannes directly.

Thanks

Need to fab up a longer stinger I think :D

Need to add 43cm / 17inches  8)

That's based on 7600rpm and matched to the middle of the sweet spot for the intake length / cam duration.

.

.

.

So just wanted you to show you how the Wasp muffler turned out. It fits well and is surprisingly quiet for what it is. No issues with fit and tire clearance.
It tucks in under the fender really nice and the bend goes on the outside of the body a lot less than I expected. You will need to drill two 8,5mm holes in the body, at least if you use the supplied bracket and don´t do some very clever self made solution.
The pipe from the collector to the header of course needs a coat of black paint like the Sahara needs rain, but that´s what winters are for.  :D

Ok, looks nice.   Probably looks nice also on latemodel germanlooker with CF bumper ;)

I was thinking about adding the Wasp muffler to my Stage 2 header.  However, I'm concerned that the muffler might not clear my rear disc brakes.  Based on JS's photos above, the muffler looks very close to the brake drum, so disc caliper brackets might interfere.  Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.

My Club buddy Tobi has disc Brakes all around and a Wasp Header + Muffler on his oval- fits perfect -no clearance problems

Thank you!

On my 1956 beetle it didn't clear the handbrake mechanism...

It's a massive muffler! And you'd think they would have tested / advise of the fact.

I'm guessing it may be the difference between short and long axle rear.

I had to scallop out a section of the muffler to clear it.
When car jacked up all looks good, so be sure to jack the hub up to load it and see where it all sits.

Do you have a picture of the clearance problem?

I switched my Beetle to short axles, so I'm concerned about clearance as well.

Look at Johnnys car above -it has short axles too.
Of course the system was test fitted before it came on the market - I'm wondering what kind of brake Reubs has installed - can't be original drums or CSP Discs.

CIP1 had one Wasp Stage 2 muffler in stock, and they are local to me here in Canada, so I ordered it.  I really need to replace my 10-year-old Magnaflow muffler this winter, and it makes sense to match the Wasp header with the correct pipe and muffler.

I may have to re-bend some brake lines from my rear disc calipers to clear the Wasp, but I'll make the necessary changes and post any pictures.

Thanks.

I am curious if it will make more power with the new muffler!

I wonder if the wasp exhaust will fit wide rear tires ( lets say some has 944 turbo early alloy arms, 265/35 tires, 9,5x18 et 60 wheels etc)

(http://www.boxergasse.com/assets/images/Bild_014.jpg)

(http://www.abload.de/img/206lser.jpg)


(https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/12615175_1673722946213494_4305605244954148924_o.jpg?oh=00c55eb94b271f0755efc493b6ec56db&oe=58B3D22F)

Great pics Alex,  kaffer cup cars showing the sort of exhaust work required just to comply with noise and emmisions from back in the day, todays testing is even tougher  re my recent post on this very subject,  we have a mantra,  make it fit and fit for purpose.

Early Christmas present arrived today from CIP1 ;)

(http://i68.tinypic.com/2z5qg3k.jpg)

(http://i67.tinypic.com/20i9vgx.jpg)

Complete with voodoo chamber ;)

I started mocking up the Wasp muffler on my '68 short axle Beetle.  I checked it first with the M&H 215/65 tire and it looks like it will clear by about 2.5 cm.  Hopefully that will be adequate when the back end squats and the tire bulges, while launching at the drag strip.

As I expected, there are some interference issues with the disc brake calliper and lines.  The muffler is very close to the bleed valve on the calliper (~5 mm), as well as the brake line exit from the calliper.  I may be able to move the muffler over far enough to expose the brake line.  Will loosen the header and see how much movement can happen to get the muffler closer to the valve cover:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2uxtx8n.jpg)

The bracket overlaps my Weber windows, although I might be able to just use the single bolt (Ghia bracket) on the lower right bolt hole of the window, or reverse the bracket intended for Beetles:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/2yo33vo.jpg)

Here you can see how close the bleed nipple is to the front of the muffler:
(http://i67.tinypic.com/2la8x3q.jpg)

Top view shows how close the e-brake spring assembly is:
(http://i65.tinypic.com/2wm46r5.jpg)

wow, that is indeed close. hope you can work out a way around that issue to make it work.

I spent some time mocking up some alternatives.  I see what Reubs was referring to...the e-brake mechanisim is in the way, as is access to the bleed nipple and brake line entrance to the calilper.  One good possibility might be to move the muffler in towards the valve cover, which will allow it to clear the caliper.  This does move the clamp slightly outward, so that would have to be modified...I don't really want to scallop out the muffler, if possible.

I had to reverse the supplied mount bracket:
(http://i66.tinypic.com/24fg0tz.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/jgrz2b.jpg)

The muffler is close to the valve cover, and it's at a bit of an angle.  I can probably straighten it up by adjusting the clamp:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/2rnd0yr.jpg)

The clamp needs straightening for this revised method to work:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/m9vsp1.jpg)

The power bottle still clears the header pipe:

(http://i67.tinypic.com/33o1ok5.jpg)

To avoid having to use a 2.5" extension/adaptor pipe at the collector, which would disrupt the "tuned" length, I may be able to use a banjo fitting which would just clear the front of the muffler.  Found some similar examples while surfing the net:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/11mdrsy.jpg)

That's a good solution. Will you dyno to see what the system gains you?
Lee

Here's a pic of what I did.
Cut a portion of the flange out and welded with stainless wire then cleaned up a bit.
Works, and who sees it anyway.. [attachment=1]

Thank you for posting that picture!  That actually looks very good, hardly noticeable at all.  I'm going to work on mine this week, and will have to decide what to do.  I've pretty much got it narrowed down to three options:

1.  Move the muffler towards the valve cover to clear the caliper, and then try to straighten out the clamp area of the pipe (risk damaging the clamp portion).
2.  Add a pipe extension to the clamp area (however, this would change the pipe length and possibly affect the tuning).
3.  Notch the muffler like you did (and weld up the gap).  Do you have any photos to share, showing what it looks like after you cut the section out?  Thanks. 

Hi Neil
Sorry it took me so long.
No pics taken when I trimmed the flange. Sorry.
There was what looked to be stainless wool packing.
Look forward to seeing how yours turns out.
Cheers.

Ps. A couple of pics of my 56 too[attachment=1][attachment=2][attachment=3]

Very nice!  The tailpipe is nicely tucked under the fender.

Gday Reubs!
 ;D

I'm glad you posted up a proper pic of your hotrod.
See you down there man.
Dave

You really think that the designers would have tried all the popular combinations of rear brake etc before they manufactured. It's stuff like this that lets the industry down a little in my opinion. You shouldn't have to cut your new shiny muffler just because you have rear discs. It really annoys me!  >:(

That's what has put me off buying one. You can't run a traction bar, how many hot street bugs use that!

You can run a traction bar if you make one yourself to suit. They are not that nicely finished either. The j tubes are badly dented where they have been clamped in the bending machine too. 

I just love the thought of someone cutting into a new silencer and welding a dented piece in to clear a caliper. Thought this exhaust was made to be as efficient as possible. So how is modifying something that's had loads of research and development, to make it fit a car!

Like this. Poor

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/vwhelmot/Fubar64/5874FF71-3EC7-4764-9EA4-49E5E565619F.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/vwhelmot/media/Fubar64/5874FF71-3EC7-4764-9EA4-49E5E565619F.jpg.html)

Shouldn't have to spend time making it like it should be in the first place. Took tig welding to make it better.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l242/vwhelmot/Fubar64/D3478BFF-7CCE-4FBE-86A3-E3303086015D.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/vwhelmot/media/Fubar64/D3478BFF-7CCE-4FBE-86A3-E3303086015D.jpg.html)

Nice work, unless the original dents added power  ;D

There is a lot of this kind of substandard quality since I started my build. It's really poor to be honest, it's all sold at top prices and a lot of the time it's crap.

FYI on those debts

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=azPKIjxmmdU

Now I'm not a advocate of shitty quality or saying it's acceptable. When my son nocked over my S3 wasp megaphone and dinged it I about cried. But knowing it didn't just loose 20hp is refreshing.

The problem with trying to make those fit every combination is it's a enourmous expense and there will be compromises made.  How many disc brake kits are out there?  Is it going to fit my narrowed torsion car, doubtful. The difficult thing is limited US distributors.  If you buy from CSP and it doesn't fit, return shipping is $$$.

Virtually all rear disc set ups use these generic rear calipers so you can't tell me that they shouldn't have tried these combinations before manufacture. All they had to do was make the muffler shorter to suit all combinations. That's just crap.

I'm still reluctant to cut a piece out of the muffler, but this is probably the best long term solution.

I also don't want to bend the clamp area, in order to shift the muffler angle to clear the caliper.  This will disturb the clean flow from the collector into the pipe.

So, for now I think I'll try adding a 2 cm extension to the collector outlet.  With the banjo fitting on the brake line, I just need to have enough clearance to ensure the muffler doesn't vibrate against the caliper bleed nipple during driving/racing.  I'll make this a temporary set-up that can be removed.  I may test on the dyno in the future to see how this affects power.

Look at CBS site for rear kits.  They offer threee different calipers alone.  Then throw is CSP, Geers, RLR, all the other potential variants.  Short axle, long axle.  I bet it works fine with the CSP kit.  Make the muffler shorter he says, compromise he says, but he still expects the same level of HP and noise reduction.

 

Not at all. The muffler is huge, even shortening it an inch and a half would cure it with no performance lost.   You would be pretty pissed if you bought it and it didn't clear your brakes. 
  Have I pissed you off mr hot street with my opinion?

I'm not pissed, but I think your expectations are too high.  These cars are 40+ years old and with the aftermarket that has existed the number of combinations are endless.  As long as the muffler setup works as advertised with their disc kit, end of story.  You don't buy an Xbox game and try to play it in a sony.

 :P
That's bull. I have higher standards than you then. I just expect things to fit and work as they should and on many occasions this is not the case.  I would understand if this system was cheap made in Taiwan but it's not. It's an expensive exhaust and this common combination of rear disc caliper short/long axle whatever should have been tested before being sold. Not everyone has the facilities of tig welding/fabrication to cut chunks out of your new shiny stainless muffler.  All the other rear calipers are smaller i.e. Wilwood, ap racing so it's not difficult to bolt a set of csp/ airkewld which use the same sort it pot metal corrado type rear caliper is it?

Agree 100% with above. If it was an empi part (and empi price) it could all be forgiven

Like they say, opinions are like assholes, well all have one.  We can disagree on this one.  I'll fire up the TIG

OK, now we have to bite the bullit, the only way is to cut the damn box off near the weld and move it 1" nearer the rear apron, worried about the oa length? add it to the tail.pipe but ive learnt it wont matter a hoot.
just move the box rearward and stop worrying. if the exhaust was as critical.as as fook,  F1would have variable length systems, but they dont, only the VW intake Length is critical and no one bothers, they bolt on catalogue generic and go.
only 2 stroke kart motors play with oa system length, dont make a power difference, it only shifts were it starts and finishes.

So, after experimenting and measuring for a few more hours, I chose to add a 3.0 cm extension to the end of the collector and not modify any of the CSP parts.  The deciding factors were:  being able to use the Berg engine support and providing clearance to the caliper bleed nipple.  I could always experiment on the dyno to see if there's any difference from adding the 3 cm extension, as it would be simple to do.

I went to my FLAPS and picked up a 2.5" ID-to-2.5"OD (63.5 mm) connector and cut it down.  The uncut version provided 6.0 cm extension, which was too much, so I worked from there and ended up at 3 cm:

(http://i64.tinypic.com/j5vyhs.jpg)

I added a 3 cm tab to hold the extension for now, until I decide whether to clamp or weld it:

(http://i63.tinypic.com/dhcq3a.jpg)

I can use the lower stock holes to use Berg support bar (there is room for the rod to move toward the valve cover a bit to prevent contact with the muffler).  A fellow on thesamba from Hawaii showed how a shortened Berg bar will work with the Wasp, so I'll use his method:

(http://i67.tinypic.com/mhwmv.jpg)

The banjo fitting bolts the brake line into the caliper with adequate clearance.  Will have to experiment with brake line position, as it's crowded with the Z-bar, e-brake cable, shock absorber with limiting strap, etc:

(http://i66.tinypic.com/nfpoqc.jpg)

The bleed nipple clears the muffler by about 5 mm:

(http://i65.tinypic.com/oqlzzp.jpg)

It looks like i might get the wasp muffler fit, or not. Possibly ordering it soon.

I do have 944 alloy arms that widen the the track about 43mm, and 4-piston caliper can be repositioned..also looks like 4-piston caliper is slimmer than sliding caliper with e-brake mechanism. In my case, caliper clearance should not be problem as much.

(http://www.vogttt.com/tl_files/vogt/Bilder_Teile_KFZ/Fahrwerk/Fahrwerk_Kaefer_Hinterachse_Schraeglenker_Porsche_2.JPG)


(http://www.vogttt.com/tl_files/vogt/Bilder_Teile_KFZ/Fahrwerk/Fahrwerk_Kaefer_Hinterachse_Schraeglenker_Porsche_4.JPG)

Basically with 205mm tire and 6" wheel  + stock fenders compared to 255 tire and 9" wheel with 6cm wider fenders should have similar inner clearance, perhaps.

Well, know i can say it really fits, even if i did just have it test fitted to a chassis. Lots of room with rear arms and 4-piston calipers.

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/paPUTM.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/924/NrjSJz.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/923/lnPZg6.jpg)

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1280x1024q90/922/o6bHjf.jpg)

old thread , does anyone know what size is the OD of the collector for Wasp Stage 1?

(https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2149363.jpg)
(https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/2149355.jpg)

Info from CSP: That'll be OD 59 mm.

thanks!