The Cal-look Lounge

If all goes well this coming year will be the year that I finally get a real Cal Looker with a new engine for the '58 to replace the existing dual carb 36hp (having first read about the cal look in '81 and been reading ever since...).  Like a lot of others my dream is a 2276 with IDAs but I have a few questions:

- Are IDAs an option for a daily driver; a car that I can jump into and use every day without having very regular maintenance?
- I don't want to cut the body on the '58 at all; would I fit a stroker engine with heater boxes without doing this?
- I have a budget so looking to stay 4 speed; what would be a good torque producing combination that I can use in daily traffic?
- I recall reading that a good free flowing exhaust will help with cooling; will the heater boxes restrict things too much?  Ideally I'd like not to run an external cooler.

I'm sure there will be more questions but I have a few months to plan things yet!

Thanks
Richard

Drive daily with no air filters?
I was able to fit LYNX filters on the 48IDA stacks, BUT I had short manifolds . . . AND it was in a '67. See those filters here . . . http://www.dellorto.co.uk/merchandise/products_details.asp?PartNo=LYNXRF648S&CategoryID=16&PartsectionID=65
The filter element is a THIN layer of oiled foam . . . Probably not the best filtration!

Maybe consider dual Weber IDF carbs for daily driving so you can fit proper filters?

The heater boxes cannot be the stock type . . . you'll want to get the style that are basically "J-tubes" that have a box built around them.

or an eberspacher, i love mine

Easy solution, sort of, 40 hp "stale air" heater boxes. Remove the puny stock pipe and have one bent up to match the diameter of your exhaust system. That assumes that your header is setup to use heater boxes. There is also some sheet metal trimming required to accommodate the larger diameter pipe, but that is quite easy. I did this back in 1989 for the 1 5/8" merged system I purchased from the Berg's and it really came out nice with a LOT of heat. Pretty lightweight, too.

Not to hijack, but Herb, was it as easy as you make it seem to fit the J tubes to a non fresh air 40 heater box? 
I have the heater boxes to build such an exhaust, but when I talked with Tiger at A-1, his reaction to the effort needed to build me the parts was less than excited.
Do you recall what was needed to get the correct bend to the J tube so as to get good fit?
Steve

Stale air is definitely cleaner, and allows more room in the engine compartment.
There is also these (and others):
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?submit=yes&type=text&keywords=Berg+heater

Instead of doing heat, how about heated seats? Kits are cheap and simple to install, easy to hide.

Gday Richard.
Whoda thunk Ocklund would get chilly?  ;D

I'm with Zach, heated seat pads work well.
Also........

Heated lap rug, I had one on a scooter that I commuted on at 2am in winter. The temps actually got down to about 2 or 3*C some nights, jeez I thought I was on an Antarctic exped or something.

12V electric fan heater, a bit loud but instant heat NOW. One little blower and your cab is good within minutes........
http://www.ebay.com/bhp/12-volt-electric-heater

Now all this takes away valuable grunt from your gennie, so fit LED headlights (20W instead of 55W, gives you another 3A), leave your wipers off (they never really work anyway), switch to a mag to save the 3A from your points (or 6A from a HEI conversion), and take out your tail lights coz no-one will keep up anyway.
 ;)

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PS:   fan heater and a little lap blankie mate and your good.  8)

I just remembered a similar thread was posted here years ago, the response was something like, "Trade in your skirt for a pair of pants."

 ;)

Thanks for the thoughts everyone.  I like the sound of the stale air or gas heater for the clean engine bay look.  I've tried the blanket, long trousers, coat and gloves but perhaps I am getting old?   It gets down to 2 or 3 degrees C here sometimes and that can feel pretty cold after 30 minutes in the car. 

Any more thoughts about whether I should forget about IDAs if I want a car I can jumping and use any time?  Should I be looking at Dcnfs for and old school look with practicality (although still think IDAs look the best).

I do have another car to use, but enjoy the Bug more. I work from home but have to head out to meetings which can include an hour on the motorway in heavy traffic.

Many thanks
Richard

To run at their best, IDA's do need constant attention. Changes in temperature and humidity can effect the way they run. 42-44 DCNF's are great running carbs, but they don't fit nicely in a type one engine compartment. They work really well in a type 3 though. Dellorto's and Weber IDF's may not have the great look of an IDA (nothing does!) but they are more attractive than a DCNF and run just as well.

Enderle stacks, with EFI retrofit.
 8)

x2 for IDF for me if that's your thing.

In Canada we get all kinds of weather, and I've tried all the tricks for staying warm. The heater boxes are the best because once they're installed, they are maintenance free and work well not only heating the cabin, but also directing the warm air to the window for defrosting or to your feet if it's dryer. My turbo is the ultimate street vehicle for a couple reasons. It has stock heater boxes which work well with a big turbo because one of the tricks to getting power is to have small exhaust not large exhaust. My builder said that when he built the big engine in 'the worlds fastest street car' Red Victor a few years ago, the turbo header was only 1-5/8" !! Not sure if your budget would allow EFI, but that helps make a car a pleasure to drive and maintain too. No problems with gum in the carbs when the car is stored, or fouled plugs with the coil-on-plug ignition. I've idled mine in traffic jams for a couple hours in the summer heat without a glitch.

In my country we need ventilation on the windshield, at least for the year of car that I have.
So I installed a 914 or VW bus vent under my rearseat connected to the normal air in and outlets under the seat... works perfect..  
Maybe you can use a oilcooler in front of it so it can suck in warm air.

(http://www.keversite.nl/fotoalbum/fotos/128036.jpg)

Hope this helps..

I have an Eberspächer aux.heater in mine....bring on the frost! ;D ;D ;D

i do get funny looks with mine when you have whips of smoke coming from under the front fender where my exhaust for it is though  ;D

What's the noise?-jet engine! ;D ;D

Honestly?Mine's an original install(Swedish import -02),it makes a lot of noise coming from the fan that draws air from the knee area.And it exits the heat pointed straight at the accelerator pedal ie my foot!I think some ducting is in order.

 On the other hand:my -03 has the whole stock heater setup and it works pretty well.

 ;D
mines an old BN4, need to refit it now its getting cold, but i have now thermostat for it, so its off or hot. but i just flick the switch, and have it sucking in from the bonnet (but will change that if i can) and it doubts into a hole i made thick points to the gear stick, i tad ghetto but works well.
looked at a cheap divi thermostat to put in the airstream and then wire to the on off switch. as when i turn it off the fan continues but it just doesn't burn, so you can get a nice level of heat if you do a min on and 2 off or so...
great thing though!

It was quite easy as the system I used from the Berg's was set up with the #1+#3 pipes already bent to be used as the replacement j-tubes in a big bore heater box. I just used them in a stale air box for a cleaner look and better heat. The rest of the exhaust system of course was designed to accept these pipes in this location. There was some work to the tins, of course, to let the larger pipes work.

I have a stewart warner gas heater in mine as well as heated seats. That being said, I'm planning on modifying a set of stale air heat exchangers for my '61 convertible if a ever finish it.

Some more good information everyone...

I hear everything people are saying about IDAs, but would really like to go with them if possible....I thought that I'd seen them with short manifolds with 'real' filters?  Any thoughts?

I currently have the multi layer wire stack filters on the 28PCIs on the 36hp....how effective are these really compared to say K&N filters? (the photo below shows the engine before I fitted these).

Zack; interesting to hear your comments regarding the DCNFs...looking at pictures you are right. They have less presence in the engine bay than the dual carbs on my 36hp!

(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-EOWi0Kh48z0/UKsq85X9JaI/AAAAAAAAEBU/rXBkK2GfCrU/s640/DSC_0001-002.JPG)

Thanks
Richard

You don't use DCNFs for looks.  You use them for driveability.  I love mine and wouldn't trade them for IDAs, but that's just me...!

Interesting thread......

Yes; I'm still watching and reading!   Have plenty of time to think about what route to take.   Richard

I made my own heaterboxes with a wide merge exhaust from the Bergs.  I actually bought new heater boxes and put the tubes from my merged exhaust inside them.  I have since replaced the j-tub flanges with v-band connections.

48's need owner involvement, especially if driven on a "daily driver" basis. My car will go 6 weeks or so of regular commuting and weekend blast off's without attention, but eventually, it needs a "once over", and every 6 months or so, need the accelerator rollers and ramps cleaned and relubricated. With my old fresh air VW doghouse fan shroud, this meant removing carbs (gives a nice excuse to change plugs too). With Thing fan shroud, I think I can get in there without removing carbs. And with Iridium NGK's it doesn't have the plug appetite it did.

IDA's are much more forgiving than IDF when it comes to idle jet plugging. They rarely plug (on my car), and if they do, they're on top of carb, (like DRLA). The other thing to remember, IDA's are bigger and heavier than IDF, and manifolds are typically taller. Means more stress on manifold and sealing joint between head and manifold. So use good hardware and stay on top of making sure nuts are tight. Manifold cracking happens too. I had a friend TIG a pair of "ears" on each side of manifold, near 8mm holes, to strengthen manifolds (where they are thin).

If your motor pulls air hard, you can make 48's run well on the street, just make sure you plan to take time to get the idle and transition phases worked out and you have a good ignition setup. You need to determine venturi diameter for your true intent too. Bigger is not better, but neither is too small.

Jim

Donny; nice setup.

Jim; thanks for the advice.  I'm feeling more content that it could work for me.  Now my daughter has a car I do have another car I can use and so this could take the pressure off the VeeDub so it could become more of a sunny day car but available to use as often as I like.

Richard

I just read your preference to not run an external cooler. Keep that in mind when setting up your valvetrain and cam. Spring pressure has a huge influence on oil temperature. I've seen 15F differences with same CR, same main jet, similar timing setting but different seat and full open spring pressures, when fully warm. I also had a 1.1:1 motor that ran only single HD springs that had 8.8:1, and an aftermarket lousy fan housing and it ran almost too cool (oil temp). A few months later I changed heads and went dual VW springs and oil temp rose considerably. This is when I started running the VW fan shroud, in an effort to cool the engine better. (This did drop oil temperature, but not down as low as single spring setup). My "Chevy" spring motor made way too much oil temp. Admittedly, they were in Super Flo heads, so that had an influence on heat too. And the copycat shroud didn't help.

I still think a tuned hot rod VW motor with compression, cam, etc, needs a good external cooler in the full flow circuit. I know the oils can take 260F or whatever, but the cases sure don't seem to like that heat. Just something to keep in mind. Depends on climate and driving style too.

Jim

Hi Jim
Thanks for that additional information.  From what I read from your posts before, the exhaust also makes a big difference to temperatures?  This might be a slight worry if I am to run heater boxes?  However, I am still thinking I may keep the car 6 volt (not sure why, but I just like the idea) and a setup that does not need an electric fan etc on an external cooler appeals.  Perhaps it might be a case of 'suck it and see' and add an external cooler later if I find I need it?

Richard

Hi Richard

My 2275 doesn't have one and i haven't had a need for one, good tinware and test fitting each piece. and my motor runs 10.5 to 1 comp.

Nicholai

CSP makes bigger heaterboxes. 38, 42, 45 and 48mm outside diameter (from the exhaust pipe).

http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&rub1=Exhaust+%2F+Heating&rub2=Exhaust+System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes+%2F+Heat+Exchangers&artnr=22333a&pn=0&sort=0&all= (http://www.csp-shop.com/cgi-bin/cshop2/front/shop_main.cgi?func=det&rub1=Exhaust+%2F+Heating&rub2=Exhaust+System-Modified%2CJ-Tubes+%2F+Heat+Exchangers&artnr=22333a&pn=0&sort=0&all=)

This is the same system I purchased so many years ago. I just used the stale air boxes for a cleaner look, and I "think" they put out more heat as well.

I posted this picture in one of my other threads.....

This is the header I welded up for my 1200/40hp Pre-Cal engine last summer, See the x2 heater pipes I made up and then attached with x2 metal plates one top and one bottom.....

It worked AMAZINGLY well, Put out LOADS of heat  :)

I don't claim to know anything about anything here, but having done the full heater box conversion (fresh air type boxes) for 1-5/8" merged exhaust on my 2276, I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you really want heat and you have the tools, skills, and TIME to tackle this job. The stale air heater boxes will be a little simpler and cleaner looking, but I decided that I wanted to use the fresh air heater boxes for my conversion. Admittedly, I wanted the boxes to look close to factory, but if you wanted to take a lot of the work out of building them, you could eliminate the factory style seam used to assemble the heater box halves and just stitch weld every 4 inches (oops, I mean every 101.6mm ;D).

(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_5281.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_5281.jpg.html)

(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_5387.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_5387.jpg.html)

Here I formed the tin to fit around the bigger 1-5/8" (42mm) pipes, but I went a little too far and they were actually able to fit 1-3/4" pipes snugly:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_5415.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_5415.jpg.html)

This is after I started shrinking the opening back down to fit the 1-5/8" pipes:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_5435.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_5435.jpg.html)

(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_5651.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_5651.jpg.html)

My engine uses 48mm IDF's and I wouldn't hesitate to use them again, but I can't comment on the IDA's since I only have limited experience with them. Some guys praise them, others curse them...but then again, many don't understand or want to learn to tune dual carbs, so that may be some of the cursing we hear about. ;) I like the fact the IDF's allow for air cleaners, so that was a big part of why I used them instead of IDA's....well that, and they were less $$$!!! My Big Beef intakes don't allow the decklid to close with a standard size air filter, so I had to use these K&N tapered filters:
(http://i698.photobucket.com/albums/vv348/youngnstudly/IMG_6257.jpg) (http://s698.photobucket.com/user/youngnstudly/media/IMG_6257.jpg.html)

As for running with seat warmers, they are for little (sissy) girls....I know this because I installed seat warmers in this pair of seats I built so I could be a little sissy girl....a WARM little sissy girl! ;) The problem is seat warmers don't defrost windshields!:
(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/802324.jpg)

Andy

I know a lot of guys "get away without" an external cooler, using only the stock VW doghouse. Personally, I would love to eliminate the weight and tangle of my external cooler and lines, etc, but I have never been able to keep oil temps where I want them, without an external, in the 26 years I've been building engines for my own car. I've never been one to build the motor mildly, in an effort to NOT use an external cooler, either. All my motors have run 94mm, and have had some compression. Almost all of them had some spring pressure in them too. All that adds oil heat. Not getting fuel curve where the motor wants it will too. I like my oil temp, on a 100-105F day, to run around 185-190F, under steady state cruising. Under load, on the highway (long grade), 200F-210F max. I use a Setrab cooler with two fans, fed by cold air duct under RH torsion tube. Fans are switched on manually from toggle on dash. This has worked for me since 1997, on pump fuel, latest motor 9.9:1

Thanks everyone for the input....still watching the posts and listening to what is said.  We are heading to our long summer break here and have plenty of work to complete before then which is why my responses have been infrequent!

Richard

Very nice job Andy . . . . those are bitchen!

Thanks! They turned out nice. I keep thinking about building a pair out of stainless steel (with some form of fins) in the future, but we'll have to see if I even have a need for them. Would be cool though! 8)

Andy