The Cal-look Lounge

Back in 2003 I found a very nice stock one owner 1959 for a reasonable sum.
It had not been waxed or polished since new, but I liked it!
About a week later it had BRM:s, lowered front and T-bars.
I drove it like that the first summer.

Fast forward to 2004.
I built a 2332 with wedgeports and Berg 52:s.
It was never more than a mock up due to a warped case.
That year I also was a lot inspired by "The gates of heaven", but my car was so dull I called it "the gates of hell".

Fast forward to 2005.
I finished the 2332, but broke the trans first time even if it was on the street.
Took it apart and did my first trans repair. Found the error:  A worn out shift fork.
The season was over though before I finished.

To be continued...

2006. Now it was time to be seious. I bought a new KCR built trans.
The wegdeports were sent to JPM for porting and installation of 46 mm intakes.
More or less all parts except rockers and carbs were new. Increased the stroke to 86 mm so it was a 2387.
Made 228 hp on JPM's dyno.
Went 11.9 hitting the rev limiter after two shake down passes.
I gradually turned up the rev limiter every race and in the end of the season I Went 11.29 at SCC.

you've a saab SA35 draken too  ???  ;)

;D
No, it was taken outside a museum...

2007.
I wanted to go faster. The 10 was in reach.
At dyno day in Oct 2006 JPM talked about making the first 4" bore heads.
I bought them... Sold both the trans and Engine and started over.
The end result was a 2789 with Terminators and a 002 trans with Berg middle housing Folts axles.
It was dynoed to 286 hp with pump gas.
Johannes said somethng was wrong, it should be over 300. I didn't listen to him - for the last time...
In the middle of the summer I made 10.96 - 196 km/h on pump gas and with M&H Dots, slipping the clutch and spinning in the start.
Johannes kept complaining that the top speed was too low. Tear the Engine down was the order.
I tore it down and the cam was flat. At the best cylinder I had 11 mm lift on the valve.
Everything inside was worn a lot from metal particles.

2008
Heads were sent to JPM for some more porting. They made over 300 cfm...
Custom JPM cam was made, home made oval throttle bodies was designed, vacuum pump was added.
 ...and then I lost interest.
The car was collecting dust, I bought a new house, changed job, got a second child etc.
It was collecting dust until 2011 when I sold it to a friend and bought a boat instead.

Thanks Roman!

Your timing with this thread could not have been any better. Looking forward to the rest of the story!

Best rgs
BB

Very fast forward.
2014 - september.
Exactly Three years later I got a phone call from the new owner.
He was Selling it. More or less complete without engine. I felt the timing was right.

I had an urgent need for a new engine.
I started to make a budget but to get anything finished that was high class before the start of the season was impossible.
Until I met an old friend last weekend.
He said he had sold his bug, but he said he still had the engine so I bought it, more or less complete.
It is a former World record engine, one of the very few aspirated VW Engines that has been under 9.50 in the quarter.

To be continued...

In a dragster? I can only think of 2 in a car and dont see them likely to be for sale, i have seen one under a bench this week



Great story and glad you got the car back 8)

cheers Richie

Exactly...  ;D
Ex Brian Hyerstay 1679 cc. A mouse!

 :D  one extreme to another for your car then :o ;D

Hi Roman,

Damn good you got the car back,if you ever need some 62 terminators for the mouse ;D Still have them ;)

As Richie said,talking about one extreme to the other...2.8L to 1.6L  ::)

good luck and have fun!

If we now can get Hakan back on here with his "Roman killer" bug",then we could have some nice cars in for a streetbattle...

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,19397.0.html

rgds steve

I Think Håkan still has the blue looker.
His nick here is Fast54 and I could see he was online here just minutes ago.
I know Anders "Herminator" Hermansson that bought my Engine is interested in the Terminators and I think he has contacted you earlier.

I bought it just beacuse it was cheap and 200 meters from me. The trans gearing is completely wrong.
My gear stack is set up for a big motor with approx 330-350 hp.

So there will not be a type4 in it this summer then  ;D. As i said Before, great to have you back on track

The 1679 looks very stock from a few feet.
But if you go closer you see that it is very narrow. The tin has been modified.
I have almost finished taking it apart for inspection and it looks very promising.
Ports are huge wedgeports for a 1679. Intake valves are approx 42 mm and they are titanium.
Looks like K-800 valve springs.

Pistons have really deep valve pockets.
Rods are Carrillos in stock length.
Cylinders has been cut  LOT!

Every part is just as Brian said. The only thing I have found so far is one wris pin that was a bit worn. No biggie.

I also bought a bucket of IDA:s from Another friend. They are in really bad condition but cheap and rebuildable.
Hmm trough bolts with a nut on the back side? Some people shouldn't try to repair stuff...

Next step is to send heads and cam to JPM for flow test and a test in the cam doctor to see the potential.

What sort of power are you expecting from this mouse motor?

It was dynoed to 208 hp on Adam Wiks dyno back in the day. I have no clue how correct it is.
It has been a World record holder in G/Dragster so it seems reasonable.

Some interesting details:
As it has been used in a dragster with mid Engine the pick up is in the front end with no deep sump.
The cam is really wild for a 1600: Engle KB 424 - more or less an Enlgle FK-98 with less lift (332 degrees advertized duration).
I used a FK-98 in my 2789!

Wow Anders, time really flies!  :D
Good to have you back on track, looking forward to see you on a track next summer!

Cool project  :)

I can't understand this, how can it suck any oil if the pickup is in the front half of the engine? Maybe I'm just tired... TGIF  :)

mid-engined with gearbok in the back i guess. flipped around.

Correct Erlend!
I will change to a standard pickup.

Cool. I am in for a mouse race;) i am building a 1735 cc for my new 67cal look.

But cool to see you back on the Track Anders.

What kind of times are you chasing?

Massive heads and cam  ;D

My all-time favourite engine was around that size. I used parts from other local engines to bore and stroke it out (off-the-shelf stuff was either not available then or hugely expensive), valves, springs, pistons, rods, a real hotch-potch! Hahaha! But it was just a really sweet little engine.
Offset ground crank for about 75mm, local pistons for a 3.375" bore, 1.49" intake valves, 1.27" exh valves, etc, etc, etc.

1735cc from 87 bore x 73 stroke?

I love mouse motors!  ;D

Thanks for all the pics Roman.

The goal is to have fun!
Low 12:s high or 11:s maybe? It is a full weight car in street condition with a trans that isn't optimized for a small high revving motor.

That is what it is all about!

I hope you do not mind me asking Roman but how does the lifters look like after being used with K800`s?

Best rgs
BB

Flawless!
If I had the box I could repack them and sell them as new.

Are you spraying the engine or driving it completely NA?

Low 12 / high 11's on a small engine like that, in a full weight car is cool!

Cool. Anders how long are The rods?

Lets make a class at scc. Max 1776 cc and Cars above 750 kg  ;D that could be fun.

I`m ALL in on that idea  :)

Rods are 5.352", stock length.

I am in on a race class!
750 kg with or without driver? I think mine is 750 without.

Times without NOS. I havent excluded the possibility to spray it yet though.
The car has made these times with this HP, me or Anders Hermansson as a driver.
2387 - 228 hp, type 1 trans: 11.29
2276 - 225 hp, bus trans: 11.7
2276 - 180 hp, bus trans: 12.3
2789 - 286 hp, bus trans: 10.96

If 208 hp is correct I hope to be somewhere between 11.7 and 12.3 - low 12's or high 11's.

750kg without driver sounds fair for a fuld Body car.

My rods are only 4,75 and crane is 62,5 but 94mm bore. Raptor cam and wedge port heads.

208 US pony`s is one thing but the missing torque is another thing you need to take into consideration. It is not easy to drive fast with a mouse engine and especially so when the gear ratios are not tailored for the engine and car. But on the other hand, the new driving style needed to go quick with a mouse engine will make you quicker when you later build a new and bigger engine.

I always like reading about folks who buy their old cars back.... think we all want to turn the clock back sometimes! Good to see you back with your old car, and look forward to hearing how it runs :)

I like the sound of all this mouse motor talk!

Good on you Roman and Bang. I hope your plans come together over the winter and I'll be interested to see how you get on next season, particularly with the planned 750+ driver weight break.

I'm sure you are well aware, but getting off the line will be the biggest challenge, with limited torque and a reasonable amount of weight. That said if you select your parts carefully and get a decent clutch set up, then I'm sure both motors could certainly punch above their weight.

A word of warning though if you fall for the charms of a small cc screamer my guess is you and your cars will be going on a diet and the gear ratios will be getting shorter!

Have fun......

Peter

Time for an update.
The heads are still at JPM so I have started restoring my IDAs.
Before:

After glass blasting and then plastic media blasting they look like new!
I still have to remove the stuck check valve in the bottom of the float bowl. My machine guy is on vacation and will be back net week so then I will be able to assemble them will mostly new parts.

I have also looked a lot for a good ignition.
I need a crank trigger to have exact timing, but to use a distributor feels so wrong. It is also quite expensive.
The distributorless ignitions I have found are half lame so I have seriously been looking for an EFI update.

I tested Passat coil on plugs today on another engine I had in the garage and they fit!
According to Motor Nord who is the Scandinavian distributor for Link EFI thay have been dynoed to 1000+ hp and 10 000 rpm with no problems on other cars.
I know Juggas is using it on his type 4 turbo engine as well.

If someone is interested in a set of Italian IDAs, just restored with lots of new parts (500 + euros invested just in new parts) just PM me. They will be done in a week or two.

I found a series of pics from the period I "borrowed" it.
Hope you dont mind me posting in your thread :)
The pics is copywrited but here's a link:

http://www.ziken.se/Galleri_Motorsport_2013/2013-08-31%20Pistonhead%20Open%204%20-%20Kjula%20Dragway/index_7.html

With the street 2275 (185hp with belt, muffler) it went 12,54 -not as fast as 12,3.
Then the engine was moved to the rail before I went any faster but thats an other story.

love this story , hoping to get my 1776 out of the bus and in to a bug asap.

The carbs are finíshed since about two weeks and they turned out really good!
I sold them to a frend locally that had an urgent need.
And now on to the EFI etc. I will update later.

.

Phase II: EFI
I was looking at several options for the throttle bodies, but they all were expensive. A set of ITB with injectors and TPS easlily breaks the 1000 euro range so I started to look for bike parts.
The problem with the most was that they were to small. After a bit investigation I changed track and bought two sets of Ducati 749/999 throttle bodies.
They have the same TB, the difference is the idle settings.
Ducati 749: 2 cylinder, 748 cc, 108 hp at 10 000 rpm.
Take the power x 2 and the CC x 2 and you have approx my 1680 with 208 + hp at approx 9000 rpm. 
But... if you look at the size, 54 mm people will think I am mad. 54 mm ITB on a 1680!
The best part was the price, $80 for a pair, so it was $160 in total!
Pictures and more information later.

One of the two complete airboxes.
[attachment=1]

Air box removed, a weber IDF as a comparsion.
[attachment=2]

Close up of the TB.
Wire to the left is the control for fast idle. I plan to connect it to the choke wire.
The one in the middle is throttle and the one to the right is a return wire for the throttle. It won't be used.
[attachment=3]

The throttle bodies has top mounted, pico size shower type injectors. F1 style!!!
[attachment=1]

Bottom view through the throttle. Injector is visible at the top.
[attachment=2]

Practical C/C distance is about the same as an IDF if you don't angle them. In that case the tabs between the TB's and the velocity stacks has to be trimmed.
 It will take some time and work to shorten and angle them, but I think it will be worth the effort.
It will straighten out the port and give a shorter intake length that is good for the high RPM.
Mainfolds are bugpack with a lot of meat to port them out.
[attachment=3]

would it be possible to fit them on IDA manifolds without mods?

Another one with Ducati TB's, I like :)

Here you can see what I (we) plan to do with mine.. Using the existing linkage between the two (shortened down), and using the cables for throttle.
Making custom manifolds..  :D
[attachment=1]

Here is my
 

Nice! Very nice.. and that goes to all of you.

-BB-

No problem! It just takes an adapter.

Seems like more people that got the idea!
Nice!

Nice idea with 90 degree turned and linked through the axle!
There is more than one way to skin a cat...

Is Ducati ITB the new IDA's?

Last week I made a phonecal to JPM and I he made a quick calculation of the intake length.
Total system length should be 340 mm for 9000 rpm peak power.
I measurement showed that with the bugpack manifolds I just needed a 15 mm spacer/adapter to be perfect.

I took the rotating file and cleared the tabs and air horns so they could be fit close enough.
 [attachment=1]

Since the throttle bodies aren't parallell on a Ducati the balls to the linkage aren't parallell either.
There are two ways, either bending the linkage rod or turn down the spacer and and flip the adjustment tab.
I choosed the later, because it gives better clearance to the fan shroud and feels more stable.
[attachment=2]

Since the bottom of the TB is oval and smaller than the diameter of the manifolds they will be adjusted to 51.5 mm to get a round port that matches the manifold.
Before Picture, port size approx 51.5 x 43 if I remember correct.
[attachment=3]

I made a CAD drawing this evening and my machine guy will make an adapter during the week.

Come on Roman!

Please make your thread a proper winter warmer for all of us here on The Lounge!

Best rgs
BB

Please, Some news Roman  :)

Sorry, I didn't see that I had a reply on this!
The car is sold and I have bought a RLR Prostock chassis.
I have also sold the 1679, but it is still in my garage and will be started any day now, but with IDA's.
I have assembeld it for the new owner.
(http://[attachment=1])

More info later about the Prostock, but I have most of the parts now and some chassis upgrade is underway.
A certain JPM built Prostock record holding engine is in the garage and will soon have some more HP upgrades too.

Pro Stock is the new Cal Look!

I couldn't agree more!  Which is why my split is getting 910s!! haha