The Cal-look Lounge

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A reminder of how it looked, back in the early 1980's.

It seems to me this car was always regarded as more of a Custom than a Cal-looker, but I'm not so sure.... Lowered, roofchopped, Porsche India Red, color coded headlights/indicators custom interior/roll bar......very clean & simple.
If it didn't have those awful (IMHO) Marathon wheels might it have crossed the boundaries more easily?
I don't know.... I wasn't there?

Which brings me to the point of this nonsense....... It doesn't have the marathon wheels anymore......they're cheap enough to find, BUT, I just don't think I can bring myself to do it...

Here are my thoughts......

Original Anodised Fuchs
Genuine Empi 8 spokes ...color coded or bare cast finish or what?
Early solid pre 66 solid wheels ...India Red, trim rings and Porsche nipple caps?
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(http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c260/jick-r/E891AE61-05AA-4F7A-B6B5-96F55C6B1414_zps865zfawb.jpg)

We all like discussing what people should do with their cars! Haha
What d'you say??

Other thoughts.... In the x2 features I have, March '84 HotVW's and the old Colin Burnham book 'Air-Cooled Volkswagens'
Both write about the amazing candy-apple-red paint..... That's not very Cal-Look is it?

But it was always just good old India Red..... Another case of excitable journalism!?

Anyway...... Maybe that didn't help? Or maybe no-one cared? Haha.

I think with the additional bits of chrome on there it would definitely edge it more towards full custom than cal look, but again, I wasn't there either!

I personally think in a nod to the original (horrible) wheels, a set of fully polished EMPI 8's would look right at home.

Wise words Mr Kaferboy...

Indeed,  some polished 8- spokes would reference the original feel of the car nicely....

I'm really leaning towards the solids/trimmings/nipple caps option...
Always loved that look on all those 80's pastel Cal-Lookers...

I think the bumper treatment, the angled B pillars, and the interior take it to Kustom territory. But that's ok, I like it. Doesn't have to be cal look to be cool. But I agree, those Marathon's are awful.
Also take into account wheel offset. 8 spokes have a lot of that, so you'll likely end up with fender brakes while turning. Narrowing a type 3 front beam is not an option far as I know.
Instead of standard type one wide 5 wheels, how about factory type 3 wide 5 wheels? They are slotted (similar to bus 15's), and will keep the tires off of the fender lips.
Original anodized Fuchs would look right at home, especially if they were detailed in body colour rather than just black. Possibly 14's all around, or a staggered set of 14x5.5's and 15x6's would look very nice. They also have a more friendly offset.
Any of the 914 wheels would be a good choice coming from a offset perspective. 2L alloys would fit the time period well.

Cal Look all day long, remember cal look was a individual style, this was a customs guy's attempt at his cal style, so I agree change the wheels.

Remember the cal look type 3 van with the filled inside panels, that was cal look not custom and some of the original DKP1 style cars had similar style seats and material

Russell

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look like 14" in front

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i'll play!

it's just my opinion, so it's only worth that.

if it was me i wouldn't run the marathons either,  i like 8 spokes a lot so i would go that route, not fully polished, i don't like that, but then again on this car it can work. but for me it is too much circus, so what i would do is either color match them to the cars color, with a polished edge, or go for a darker red, this will bring them out better, but it is difficult with red i think.
or like the picture you posted a set of fuchs. it is amazing how good they look on most type3's. it just works. not sure if they need to be anodized or polished, both can work.

I think that Colin Burnham book has loads of inspiration as all the cars are of the exact period!  Unfortunately I gave my copy to Alex at Defcon3 when I moved here from the UK so am doing this from memory...however, I recall that the polished 8 spokes on the Red Notch in the book looked great but best of all would be nipple caps with 'hot rod'  trim rings...I recall there was an oval in the book with this?  That'd be a nice nod towards what was originally on the car too.

Richard

put it on seventeens and fit chassis raising kit,   ::)

or just put fuchs on it  8)

Craig Foster's "DKP style" car.  Back then, nobody knew much about lowering the front ends on Type III's nor was stuff
pigeon-holed as Cal-Look or not; that car was just plain cool! :)

I would listen to the Square-back expert here ;)

Nicolas.... Your Brown car has to be one of my all time favorite type3's! it just looked/looks soooooooooo "Right" :)

great comments and thoughts guys......I agree that the bumper modifications maybe help direct it to custom territory, but as Russell has correctly stated, Cal-Look back then seemed much more "free"   imagine it with T-bars and no other changes........no contest surely?   a Cal look type 3?

I suppose that's why I brought it up, particularly with reference to Craig Fosters car that I had in mind too......I just find it interesting, the distinctions between different cars and styles. it seems to me like cars were maybe more pigeon-holed by the builder and associated friends etc rather than by the actual car itself?
if a member of DKP built the "kid-Dean" car,  and Dick & Keith Dean built Craigs Panel van then which one would be the Cal-Look, and which the Custom?
I know....im possibly stretching things a bit...haha.

Zach...great info on the wheels offset etc..... important considerations....I don't have any experience of type 3s, didn't realise the wheels varied?
a friend has an early notch awaiting works....I'll take a look!

hmmm......lots to consider    ;D

does anyone want to hear my "conspiracy theory"  "2 plus 2 equals 6"    thoughts about the roll-bar in the car?

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So early 60's and up and coming customiser/painter/striper Dean Jeffries decides to build a car to win at the Oakland Roaster Show to make his mark on the custom scene....he scores a couple of old Grand Prix Maseratis ( as you do!) from his Father-in-Law.
Cuts out all the shit he doesn't need.... Engine, body etc and builds his own handmade body, wins the Oakland show...,the most prestigeous event in the USA and fame & fortune & women & respect of his peers are his!  
So..... Dick Dean, ( AKA the customisers customiser)  Kid Deans dad had done his time with Barris, and was now helping Dean Jeffries to build that car... The Mantaray.  A truely iconic and historic car.... Is it fanciful to think that Dick Dean at that point acquired  a rollbar out of one of those butchered Maseratis and nearly 20 years later found a use for it in his sons VW?
Who knows.... Just  thought  it was an interesting tale if nothing else!

oh the things that could go on in the back of that car..... ;D

Those tales give your car character, great story.
If you could drive that car as is to a few dozen custom car shows in So Cal you cold unearth many more similar stories.  8) 8)


I take it you own this car now?  8)
I think the spokes on the current wheels complement the slanted A, B and D pillers.
Maybe that is why he chose them?
http://selvedgeyard.com/2010/12/25/hollywoods-innovative-kustom-kulture-legend-dean-jeffries/

Dean had a custom 356 that was recently restored to original.
It rides on basic chrome rims and no one questions it.
A mild/plain looking wheel puts more focus on Dean's custom body work.
If you personalize enough items on the car no one will recognize it as a Dean built car.
Then the nostalgia, notoriety and value as the only chopped squareback built by a famous So Cal craftsman will be lost forever.
Back in the day most car culture guys/gals would have been thrilled to have something built just the way Dean liked it.
  
Cookie cutter mass produced reproduction Cal Look wheels seem contrary to Dean and his one off inspirations.
You wouldn't put fake 5 spokes on Tar Babe, so why not be true to Dean's original design of your square-back.
If you have to change (I wouldn't) how about something like these...

Hey MG..... I agree in concept with most of what you've said about not changing Dick & Keiths work, but Dick Dean was known as the king of the roofchop... THATS where the main interest lies in this car.... His history, his knowledge, his experience all coming together to produce, along with his son,a car that was SO much of its time and place.
The wheels on this car are a minor distraction to the real artistry.
this car is going to be restored /repainted to how it was back in the early 80's..... But those awful wheels are missing.....
I really don't think it's going to ruin or disrespect the original builders vision to just change them?? It's a little bit strong to suggest that the original vision etc will be lost forever if enough things are changed.... That's hardly the case here.
It's No problem to also replicate a set of marathons & trim rings to keep everyone happy.
ive clearly stated that my preference is for early solid VW wheels, color coded with trim rings and Porsche nipple caps....very close to the original ethos and surely perfect for the mild/plain looking wheels you advocate?    of course, a set of Rudge wheels would be nice......any donations gratefully received!  haha
Oh ..... And who said anything about "reproduction" wheels???
You don't know me very well....haha.

thanks for your thoughts dude..... interesting stuff!

 ;D

A reminder of how it looks now...

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did you flame it?  ;)

Someday you may want to roll like Dean, so save his old wheels.

Seriously!.....Those flames are something else aren't they?

That was an incredibly bad decision.

Like I said dude, the original marathon wheels are long lost....if they were still there I wouldn't change them......

As a customizer and Dean car owner, you no doubt can respect Dean's car and his contribution to the car hobby.
It would take a pretty special Cal Look bug to usurp your real Dean one off chop.

I'll throw my hat in the ring.... I would luv to see this car with polished Centerlines.  

Cal Look Police be damned, it's a non traditional individually sculpted ride.  Would have turned some heads on Whittier Blvd for sure back in the day.

How could it of not been cool Sarge it was owned by a FOSTER.

Hmmm.... I've never really been a fan of Centrelines, but you're right ...they really would suit this car!

Are any stories about Craig Foster and/or his car suitable for  broadcast?  :)

Read up on Craig here... ;) ;D

http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,14497.0.html

haha....sounds like great times!     

Great thread..... I had actually forgotten about this little beauty  :-[ ;) :)

Now that's an interesting topic, when tar babe was bought by Ron Fleming, he changed the wheels, when it went to Mexico it also had another wheel change or two.

Not until I got it did it return to BRMS, so nobody would dare suggest that Ron F, didn't know what he was doing.

So change is good, go for it Jick.

Russell

When restoring a historic car most pick a point in time and bring the car back to that specification.
When Ron changed the wheels on Tar Babe it had not yet become a car of historic interest.
But if you wanted today to emulate how Ron set up the car you could pick that point in time.

Point is Historic cars are restored to a point in time.
When you pick a rim (or chassis) that was never on the car then your restoration is no longer historically correct.

Historically correct cars (in non VW circles) can be found at events like Pebble beach, Monterey reunion and Goodwood.




  

I've decided to edit this as after reading you post again MG I have misunderstood the vain in which you were writing..... Sorry but a ver good point

Wrong.... The car was more historic before Ron got  it as far as cal look is concerned as it was famous for its quality, ask
Ron and he will admit this, he treated the car as race car and was not so into it for how it looked and was built that is all down to Greg .

Rons changes were all about speed....

So my new reply is...

So to counter above if we look from today at tar babe entering a concures de elegance I agree that it would need to be 100% right! however I don't think that all cars being restored need to be a 100% correct! they need to be 100% saved.  I think that tar babe was a historic car when Ron took it over all be it after a short history but a respected one in the Vw circles at the time.

I think the problem with any race cars they all evolve not just year to year but race to race, over the last few year string to restore some simple Vws to original condition has proved to be almost impossible to do correctly, the biggest problem being that during a restoration you try and do things a 100% but in reality this is most likely better than when made originally .

Anyway Jick change the wheels, you cal always chane them back... It's not like your doing a roof chop and changing the original car..... Unlike tar babe lol....

Jick and I have been in discussion about this and have come to the conclusion it should roll 17s and air to bring it bang up to date. ::) ::)




 :P :P :P

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If any of you are coming to the Volksworld show next weekend you can have a look at this old thing!
Still lots to do, but it's looking achievable.

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Wow looking good,  8) a lot better than when I delivered it.

Unfortunately won't be there to see it so plenty more pictures please.

Cheers

Wray

Thanks Wray!    Will do....