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Title: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 11, 2017, 13:12:02 pm Being do a little bit of research before I dive in with an engine built, the plan is a hot 1600 to power a buggy.
Specs would be.... Stage 1 Heads from GAC in the UK. Counterweighted Crank. Stock Rods balanced? Standard pistons balanced? Lightened flywheel with 8 dowel. Engle 110 cam twin 40's full flow oiling. SO hoping for 100hp and 6000 RPM with that. Is that possible? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Fastbrit on July 11, 2017, 16:42:43 pm Speak to GAC - they are the experts at getting power from small engines (Formula Vee etc). It will be all down to head work – and the right cam and exhaust.
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 11, 2017, 19:33:20 pm Spoke with Alan at GAC today, really really helpful, I am away to strip my heads of and send them down to him and take it from there. ;)
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: 2085 72 gtbug on July 11, 2017, 20:19:05 pm Kieth is spot on
My old spec engine really gac heads which Alan did plus he did the match porting on the manifolds to Car ran an engle 100 Plus a really good exhaust (turbo Thomas) Oh and good ignition Did 98bhp on the rollers Chris Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 11, 2017, 20:25:46 pm Kieth is spot on My old spec engine really gac heads which Alan did plus he did the match porting on the manifolds to Car ran an engle 100 Plus a really good exhaust (turbo Thomas) Oh and good ignition Did 98bhp on the rollers Chris That's good to know, DO you know what the whole spec was of the engine mate? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: 2085 72 gtbug on July 11, 2017, 20:51:56 pm As 41 case drilled tapped full flow
Genuine vw crank Genuine vw flywheel Gene Berg steel pulley Kennedy stage 1 5.4 chromo rods All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up Gac heads autolinear vw Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds Cb ignition Exhaust as mentioned above 1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 11, 2017, 22:20:28 pm Wow! lots of people build big motors and end up with 120hp. :'(
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: brian e on July 11, 2017, 22:58:33 pm As 41 case drilled tapped full flow Genuine vw crank Genuine vw flywheel Gene Berg steel pulley Kennedy stage 1 5.4 chromo rods All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up Gac heads autolinear vw Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds Cb ignition Exhaust as mentioned above 1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount What cam and compression? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 12, 2017, 08:18:54 am Wow! lots of people build big motors and end up with 120hp. :'( One of the reasons I want to do this hot 1600, see what can reliably be done. (and its a light car) Speaking with Alan at GAC he said 100bhp and 100ib torque. Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 12, 2017, 08:22:06 am As 41 case drilled tapped full flow Genuine vw crank Genuine vw flywheel Gene Berg steel pulley Kennedy stage 1 5.4 chromo rods All Dymo balanced at Andersons racing Bath Genuine mahle b&p's weighed to match up Gac heads autolinear vw Genuine nos 36 dellortos on matchported manifolds Cb ignition Exhaust as mentioned above 1500 4.125 r&p gearbox bracebar midmount What cam and compression? Same question. I was thinking 9:1? Title: Re: Post by: kever65 on July 12, 2017, 19:48:21 pm (1600ccx5500rpmx10.5)/910000=101.5 hp
Verstuurd vanaf mijn GT-I9505 met Tapatalk Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: 2085 72 gtbug on July 12, 2017, 19:57:12 pm Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun....
Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉 Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 12, 2017, 20:26:13 pm Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun.... Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉 Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor. Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: 2085 72 gtbug on July 12, 2017, 21:35:42 pm Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun.... Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉 Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor. [/quote Keep at it fella Think as kieth said choices are key and my motor revved so well so balancing also paramount... With my new build I've gone down that route and had all that done again by a well respected race shop in Cheshire Front pulley crank flywheel plate rods pistons all Dymo balanced... Look forward to seeing your results Chris Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 13, 2017, 09:38:09 am Sorry can't answer that guys as the motor was installed...but it pulled like a train great fun.... Will update on my new motor soon lol 2054 48idf on the same case 😉 Sounds good I am looking forward to putting this together. Was all about an 1835 or 1776 or similar until I spoke with a few people and decided if we can get 100bhp from a 1600 it sounds like a fun little motor. [/quote Keep at it fella Think as kieth said choices are key and my motor revved so well so balancing also paramount... With my new build I've gone down that route and had all that done again by a well respected race shop in Cheshire Front pulley crank flywheel plate rods pistons all Dymo balanced... Look forward to seeing your results Chris Cheers Chris, do you have a built thread going on yours? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Eddie DVK on July 13, 2017, 10:29:27 am I liked the engine from Johannes from JPM, I think he made a 1600 engine out of a 1200 crank 64mm and 90.5mm pistons making it 1647cc.
With very impressive HP an RPM figures. Always thinking in my head to built one of those. Hope you will post progress here on the lounge. Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 13, 2017, 12:59:42 pm I liked the engine from Johannes from JPM, I think he made a 1600 engine out of a 1200 crank 64mm and 90.5mm pistons making it 1647cc. With very impressive HP an RPM figures. Always thinking in my head to built one of those. Hope you will post progress here on the lounge. Sounds a really interesting engine! Would like to see the build up of it! I have just go of the phone to stateside tuning here in the UK, they are going to supply me a counterweighted crank and flywheel, I am going to send them down my conrods as they do an exchange service on these for some balanced ones. (I will sort of the pistons myself with a dremel) Whilst speaking with James @ Stateside, he asked what I am trying to get out the engine so I explained it and he said I am maybe better going with a VZ30 Cam. (downside being I may only get 10000 Miles out my valve train) Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Eddie DVK on July 13, 2017, 13:24:38 pm I think it is on here
http://cal-look.no/lounge/index.php/topic,3257.30.html 2nd page somewhere in the middle. Ok not a 64x90.5 engine... thought I came across that one too. Hello! After following this very interesting thread I have decided to build a "mouse motor" with almost only original parts and by using some simple math and sience. Engine spec: Case: original AS41 Crank:German stock Rods:German stock Pistons:JE 86mm 24mm comp hight Cylinders:Stock 85,5mm honed to 86mm Heads:043 40x32mm valves Compression:12,0:1 Rockers:Jpm two stud 1,5:1 ratio P-rods:Manton 3/8" cromoly Cam:Fk45in/Fk44 ex Cam gears:Magnum Oilpump:26mm Deepsump:1,5lit Flywheel:180mm stock lightend Clutch disc:cush lock Pressure plate:Kennedy Header:Custom made 1 5/8" tuned length Manifolds:Custom made tuned length(second order) Carbs:IDA 48 The most expensive parts in this concept is the JE pistons, but I feel they are nessecery if the calculated power should be optained. All the parts will of course be inspected and modified(linebored,shuffle pinned,balanced,fullflowed etc..........) to take the higher output. Heads: The heads will recive a little welding in some areas and ported to achive as high flow as possible in the limitations of the calculated port size. Cam: I will use a cam with split duration, fk45 intake and fk44 exhaust.The less ex duration will give a superior midrange without loosing top end, if the ex port flows enough, a good choise when using a "Hi-Po" engine on the street. I have decided to use a 40mm intake valve because of the 86mm bore, and the valve will not be moved to the center of the cylinder,a bigger valve will be to much shrouded from the cylinder wall. Calculation: The formula I will use to see how much rpm the 40mm valve will be good for is: RPM=3300000xPort dia xPort dia/BorexBore xStroke This formula is based on a mean port velocity at 110m/s or(360ft/s), and the Port dia is the smallest area in the port. As this engine is going to be used as a street engine the smallest port size I will use is 0,88 x valve dia(0,88x40=35,2mm) RPM calculation:3300000x35,2x35,2/86x86x69=8012rpm The teoretical rpm where peak power will be is 8012 rpm. Now we have the RPM,diplacement but not the Bmep, a realistic Bmep is between 12-13 bar(171-185psi), so I choose 12,5bar Bmep.With this information we can calculate the POWER of the "mouse motor". Formula: P=Displ x rpm x Bmep/910 POWER=1,603 x 8012 x 12,5 / 910 = 176,4hp This is the power that could be expected from the "mouse motor" if everything is properly done. With properly done I mean everything like heads,compression,cam timing,exhaust length,intake length,friction etc..................... . I will start on this project in the next week but as I run a company it will take some time to finish it, probably in mars 2008. During that time I will keep you updated with pictures and info as the project continous. When the "mouse motor" is done there will be som serious dyno testing and tuning, hopefully we will see the numbers that i come up with in the calculations above. To me,this is what I belive is "Thinking outside the box" and "The next level". With Best Regards Johannes Persson JP Motorsport Sweden Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: 2085 72 gtbug on July 13, 2017, 15:51:09 pm My engineering/balancing guy polished/balanced all my crank rods pistons for £185....
You could do with getting all your rotating parts balanced together and your rods weighed/balanced to... Use Jim to get your pistons done might seem a cost but worthwhile Chris Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 13, 2017, 16:26:48 pm My engineering/balancing guy polished/balanced all my crank rods pistons for £185.... You could do with getting all your rotating parts balanced together and your rods weighed/balanced to... Use Jim to get your pistons done might seem a cost but worthwhile Chris I shall do, its all money well spent though, I don't think any point in half assing on costs when trying to build a quick little engine. I want something that will last a wee while before it goes bang. :) Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 13, 2017, 23:13:05 pm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJdyA9G6N8
120 at the crank 72 x 85.5 35 x 32 040 heads with 6mm stems and beehive springs WEB 122, 44 idfs 3 step header Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 14, 2017, 02:39:19 am Looks like the perfect car to go with it.
What rpm was that? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 14, 2017, 08:35:47 am https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErJdyA9G6N8 120 at the carnk 72 x 85.5 35 x 32 040 heads with 6mm stems and beehive springs WEB 122 44 idfs 3 step header Crikey that's impressive! Same questions as Martin? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 14, 2017, 16:08:49 pm Peak HP was at 6800 The Web 122 is .506 x 288. The heads just had a clean up P&P by Clyde Berg....I was hoping for 100, overshot it a bit...damn...car is 1600# Berg 5 speed, ran 14.60 spinning all the way through 1st gear...(no slicks)
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 14, 2017, 17:03:17 pm That's impressive! What was the torque?
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 14, 2017, 19:59:06 pm 97 at the wheels.... the heads were hemi cut and 9 to 1 on 91 octane
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 14, 2017, 20:47:25 pm 97 at the wheels.... the heads were hemi cut and 9 to 1 on 91 octane Just watched that video again dude, that an impressive little motor!!!! Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 15, 2017, 03:14:22 am The most interesting part of this is the chamber. The project here is 12:1. That motor was semi hemi 9:1. That's a big difference in design.
And I'm trying to picture what the SH would look like at 9:1. Kissing at the edges? Smaller dip in the middle? When I ran a Berg type motor it was 7:1 lol. Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 17, 2017, 16:21:47 pm The Hemi cut in the chamber was cut to the bore diameter, 52cc's and 0 deck..
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Doogster on July 17, 2017, 20:18:27 pm The Hemi cut in the chamber was cut to the bore diameter, 52cc's and 0 deck.. Who did the Hemi cut for you Joel? Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 17, 2017, 20:23:25 pm Clyde...
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 17, 2017, 22:36:53 pm Was the piston flat top? We thought it would be interesting to use my Berg SH cut heads with a domed piston.
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Neil Davies on July 17, 2017, 23:16:49 pm I've got a pair of semi-hemi cut heads under the bench. Could you guys post up some pictures of yours so I can compare? They came off a complete running engine that I stripped as it was always running hot, but I wasn't aware of the semi-hemi heads at the time.
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 18, 2017, 02:14:40 am Flat top, dome would be fine...Porsche used domed in the super 1600...I've had these chambers as high as 11.5 to 1 on 91 octane, but around 10 works the best..
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 18, 2017, 16:31:57 pm Here's my 'ported by Mick Wooten' at Bergs from the 90's. Notice how the SH cut has been smoothed right to the edge. It makes it simple to run zero deck because there's nothing to hit. I had it set at 7:1 as per Berg, but I can't remember if there was any deck added. Need to do that math and find what the Cr would be with no shims.
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 18, 2017, 16:51:59 pm Beautiful! Just like mine....10 to 1 would be no problem....
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 18, 2017, 17:10:47 pm Awesome! I have all the parts from that engine except the case which was re-used for my 2332 turbo. Now you are giving me some ideas...
Here's a pic of the Berg crank that was in it along with the 110 cam and Kads, a classic engine for sure. Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 18, 2017, 17:42:23 pm Here are the ports on these heads matched to Kad manifolds. I would have to get them matched to Weber manifolds I suppose.
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Joel Mohr on July 18, 2017, 18:25:11 pm Wouldn't take much....
Title: Re: 100HP 1600cc Engine builders help? Post by: Martin S. on July 18, 2017, 23:04:11 pm That little 1776 was such a fun motor! I loved the way it sounded as it revved up to 6k.
Then, when I added the AJ Sims draw thru 2bbl weber prog turbo to it at 7:1 it was a real blast. Soon after I had Steve S. fuel inject the car without pulling the motor. Draw thru fuel injection and holy fu$k. Steve eventually turned up the boost to 15 psi on 91 and it rocked my world. Only when the intake boots started leaking and sucking air did it come apart and eventually got rebuilt as a whole new motor I have now. |