The Cal-look Lounge

Hey dude's - a good friend of mine is building an old gasser replica and he's thinkin of running and SPG roller bearing crank.

Does anyone have any usefull info or opinion's on this subject?

For drag racing duty the crank needs to be pinned or else it will twist. I would use a large oil pump to get alot of psi to those roller bearings, and a very light flywheel because those cranks are heavy!

If it's "All show no go" Superb! But if he's going to race it: Refering to "The bible:" Use it as a tablelight. ;)

They are weak, and expensive to rebuild. I have one in my garage that needs rebuilding, but I can buy at least three chinese cranks just for the rebuilding cost.

Who cares if it is a roller, you can't see it on the outside of the case. Put it on a shelf as a showcase instead, that is where it belongs.
The only exception would be if I was restoring a car like inch pincher, then it HAD to be a roller.

Here is my flywheel that was on the roller, this is a light flywheel!  8)

Interesting way of removing metal there! I saw a flywheel at AJ Sims shop once that was lightened with what seemed like a 100 holes. I think it was something like 7-8lbs. Funny that flywheel there is only drilled for 4 dowels!

thanks for the advice guys - its pretty much what I have been told by people over here in the UK including Simon Emery

I don't want to say too much but the replica he is building did have a roller crank and it would be really cool to run one  ;D

does anyone know how high they can rev?

The funniest part is that  the crank is a SPG. The 8-dowel pattern is called SPG pattern, but this SPG crank has just 4!

Ironic!

Sure is  ;D the only flywheel I've ever had come loose was on my 1200  ;D

10200rpm that must have sounded AWSOME :) :) :) I wanted to get this thread going again and see if there was any more opinions out there  ???

I really want to use a Roller bearing crank on my new project too maybe an 82mm SPG item on a 2180 just like Mike Mahaffey ;) - I want to know their advantages, they must have some  ??? Also didn't Porsche use them on the 912/ super 90 engine  ???  :)

Does anyone have one for sale  ??? Does anyone know a specialist ???

lets hear your opinions guys  :)

i know when i sold the little wopper fiat 500 to martin in the UK. that engine had been in the car since the early 70s the old 2180 when i tore the engine down it looked like brand new it was pined and welded. of corase the car sat for 23years in a garage. but before that it was hammerd at every drag stripe in so cal from liones to ocir true the littel fiat dident wight any thing but still was drag race started many times and street driven for years. i feel there preety darn strong for what they are. and if im not mastakin martin still has that same engine in the car and stands the car up on the stinger. i could be wrong to.   UD.

No, you're Right UD..., still the same Motor with the same old SPG Crank...!!!

Frank

no your not mistaken dude, I've seen that stinger dragin on the floor plenty of times  ;D I did not realise that Lil wopper had a 2180 with an SPG it seems like these are pretty good combo's (82x92)

I have always thought that they must be fairly strong especially when pinned and welded, and if I do decide to run one it will mainly be seeing street use so I think I should be ok  :)

The main thing I have been wondering is what are they like to drive with ??? and does anyone have an 82mm SPG for sale ???

come on guys some more of you guys out there must have a couple of cent's to drop in on this subject  ??? :) ???

p.s thanks to Dave mayes for the pic :)

So what's the story with these roller cranks anyway? Please shed some light on the subject as I feel like a total ignorant fool.

We sold a ton of the SPG rollers back in the 70's at Auto Haus. They retailed for $349.95. They were originally built for industrial motors but were soon sold by Empi and others for racing use. The off road guys loved them because they reved very quickly (light rod weights) and were able to survive periods of low oil pressure because the rods are splash oiled from notches machined in the main bearings that created a "mist" of oil that lubricated the roller bearings in the one piece connecting rods. They were pressed together and we usually had them welded and pinned to prevent them from going out of index. They rarely failed but if you had one rebuilt with high mileage rods from other damaged cranks then they could create quite a mess when the rod let go. ( Corona Raceway, 1981) they are still popular with people building "retro" cal-look cars. I just picked up a nice example, but I don't know yet what I am going to do with it yet.

Proformancemotoring.com

now thats some good info  :) and I'm finally glad to hear someone say "they rarely failed" I have always thought that they must be pretty dam strong - What size is that one you just picked up Dave  ???

What sort of engine set ups did people use them with back in the day ???

The crank that I picked up is an 82mm with the VW length rod. The Empi version had th shorter Porsche length rod with a narrower small end on the rod to work with the slipper skirt 88's.
Drag cars would use the standard 48ida, DDS 92 piston sets and either an Engle 160 cam or later on the FK-89.  At Ascot Park on Gardena the "Sprint Buggies' ran 48's on methanol with 13-1 compression  on a dirt track off road course. This is where 4 time Indy 500 winner Rick Mears started out and Richard Bays ,(original builder of the Little Giant Killer fiat) built engines that won several championships.



Proformancemotoring.com

I was wondering why some roller cranks wouldnt fit on EMPI's slipper skirt pistons! Thanks!

"You can't hurt a roller"  right Dave ?

I am going to use one for sure  :)

I don't surpose you fancy selling me that crank you've  got dave  ??? ;)

Bill was with me that night in 1981. I had 2 or 3 people tell me that even though I had a smaller motor than most, that at least "You can't hurt a Roller". This was of course 15 minutes before it grenaded!  Bill has been quoting that line to me for 25 years. I think that he was only 5 years old at the time. LOL

Only 5 yrs old at the time...  I wish..  I won't say anything about the time the waitress thought Greg Brinton & I were your sons.

 ::) ::) ::) ;D

LOL... is that cuz you all look alike?  ;D

There seems to be a lot of talk here about SPG Roller Crankshafts. Quite of a lot talked here is incorrect. I have been building these cranks for over 35 years and it is the only crank I use. If they are properly set-up there is still nothing on the market that can beat it. Yes they take special tools and knowledge to take apart and set up. That is why I am here! In the 70"s I ran a H Gas car called the Little Snort. A few years ago it was sold to Simon and since then he has sold it to a guy in Scotland. This car went 10.80 at 120 mph in 1970 and yes it had a 82 mm SPG roller crankshaft. Yes you need to pin the cranks in 4 places to keep them from twisting out of index. We prefer to pining next to welding. Welding is not smart. It causes a balance and fatigue problems. A lot of advancement over the years has been made in the rollers. Also advancement in flywheel attachment has been made. Yes the cranks are heavy around around 35 lbs but remember the rods are attached. Also because of the rollers the crank spins more freely and the extra weight becomes an advantage. As far as all this talk about oil pressure and such is just plain not correct. The mains need to be notched so the extra oil sprays on the roller rods. That is how the system works! Extra oil pressure and such is a lot of nonsense. The worst thing you can do to a roller as well as any engine is lug it. With the use of the high teck oils now days oil problems are a thing of the past. If you have a roller just laying around collecting dust email me at ghglass@sbcglobal.net and lets get it back on the road.
Gary

At Last someone with some faith in the Old SPG's ;) :) - I have ALWAYS thought that these crankas were an awsome bit of kit and I never understood why they lost favour with the  VW world  ???

I look forward to hearing some usefull information for my 2180 :)

Hi Gary,

Great to have someone in the known about these cranks on here!
If you ever find the time, we would all love some story's or old pics about lil snort...
A lot off us on here are crazy about that car!!

Jelle

A friend of mine has broken his rollercrank in the past..,i think it doesn´t function with to much power....
It was a 2276 with FK87 IDA and welded 040 heads 42x37...

Regards
Tom
 

Hi again. I have been reading some comments and thought I would put some wrong statements to rest. Rollers for VW and Porsche basicly consist of: Porsche made a 356 SPG and a Hursh. Their 4 cam engine also had a roller but that is another monster all in its self. Just a quick note here the 4 cam engine, one of the most advanced in it's time, ran a roller. Humm..
SPG also made a 40 HP 64 mm 4 dowel, a 69mm 4 dowel, a 69 mm 8 dowel, a 78 mm 8 dowel stroker and a 82 mm 8 dowel stroker. Now, I don't claim to know everything, but in my 30 years of rebuilding and repairing these cranks I have never seen a 74 mm stroker. SPG made 4 different rods for these cranks. All these rods except for the 40 HP are the same length. Right you heard me all the same length! The later style rods have tested to be the strongest. That is the only rod they put on the 82 mm stroker. Personally I prefer the Porsche 356 rod. They have a beefer shank to them. They are kind of rare and are more expensive to use but some of my customers only use them because of their design. The 40 HP roller came with a 20 mm small end and is shorter throw. The later style rods can be put on these cranks. The throw is shorter 64 mm and the crank itself is about 4 pounds lighter. I have some customers building small motors with nitrous claiming to be getting more than 200 HP out of these cranks. Not to bad for a 40 HP design. One thing I advise you if you dabble in these cranks have someone who knows these cranks work on them. All the rod failure and I mean ALL that I have seen could of been prevented if it was not assembled correctly. Balance and straightness is the key and of course cutting the main bearings correctly. Anyway I hope this puts to rest some questions. If all you would like I could post some pictures of rods and such. Also I might add that the SPG roller that is posted on this website, the nice shinny one, is a 69 mm not a 82 mm.
Gary

Hey Gary - again thankyou for the interesting info and like I said before its nice to have someone who really know what they are talking about  :)

I was wondering would you be able to rebuild the 82mm SPG I have found - it is in the states at the moment so I could get it sent straight to you  ??? :)

I plan on building a replica of Mike Mahaffery's old 2180cc IDA'd motor - Any tips  ???

Great information. About 8 or 10 years ago I almost bought a 2L aero motor with 8 sparks, a Speedwell oil system and a roller and have always been intrigued by them. Cool stuff. :)

Now that sounds like an interesting motor - where did you find that ???