The Cal-look Lounge

I'm just throwing an idea around for a street mouse motor, what you guys think?Doable?My motor has a 69mm crank stock.It will be my daily, also any idea what kind of power, maybe 100-110hp?

94mm pistons
64mm crank (from DMS maybe, or other?)
FK8 cam with 1.4:1 rockers
10:1 compression
044 Super Mag CNC Round Port Heads w/40 x 35.5mm S/S valves, CNC Porting, Dual Super Rev Springs, Chromoly Retainers, and Hardened Valve Locks. 94mm Bore
Match Ported Big Beef Manifolds for Round Port CNC 044 heads
48IDA's
1 5/8 merged header
Pertronix full ignition
AS41 case

You'd be better going for a 74mm crank - I'm guessing you're going for the short crank to get the revs up. 74's rev as well as anything.

I think that he means 69mm and that 64mm is a mistake...

No actually I meant a 64 , I didnt know 10:1 comp wasnt doable. so I guess 69 or 74 will be the idea.I was just trying to think of a high reving small CC engine similar to the 1603 in the other thread.

Jeff[ugly duckling] did one a few years back now,64 stroke with chevy rod journals if I remember correctly,wanted to rev like a 2 stroke,it was a lot of work[heads particularly;-)  ]  Maybe he will chime in a share a few details?

cheers richie,uk

mmm, interesting, I never heard of a 64mm crank, is it a standard vw crank?  ???  ???  used in older 1200 engines I guess then...?

it was destroked 69mm when ground to chevy journals

cheers richie

Many years ago I knew a german guy that had a type 4 66 X 103 mm. with a hefty cam of german origin. It wasnt worth much below 3500 and at about 4700 it almost "exploded" in power. Reved clean to about 8400, and was really mean between 5500 and 7600 rpm.
So it liked short gears. It had 48 IDF carbs on it and a very nice looking  homemade header/muffler. It was a blast to drive, but a bit too  hysterical for daily driving IMHO.
T

keep thinking about a few dream motors.......3 ltr N/a touque monster... then theres the real short stroke (50mm x 104mm) motor with pnumatic valve springs, and top ported heads, exream RPM but plenty of hp.........

 one day when I have a few years to wast....




dream on martin, dream on.............

64mm is a stock 40hp crank I was told.I was thinking if I got one of them cheap, send it out to get counter weighted, then buy some cheap pistons off thesamba.What kind of compression would you guys run, since apparently I cant run 10:1 cr (which I didnt know) with a 64mm crank?Maybe 8.5:1?
Also yes Im going with a 64 to get the revs up, and Id go with a 74, but a 64 seems cooler IMO lol
Would this motor make any power before 4000rpms to move out its own way at all with a fk8 cam or would I want a crank that makes some torque at lower RPMS?
Also what all needs to be dont to a 1600DP to put a 64mm crank in it, I know the case needs to be bored out for 94's though.

Another idea would be 87x64, LOL I want a daily motor good to rev to 8k, if it lasts 50k thats fine, least I will have a learning experience.

if it lasts 5k you will be doing well :o

cheers richie,uk

Wow...ummm ok thats not what i want LOL
ok from my understanding a mouse motor from the other topic is a small CC motor under the 1800cc range or am I misunderstanding?

I know that size works, and its actually a backup plan  ;) but I was hoping for something under 1800cc that could rev high an be heard, know what I mean lol

the 1200 64mm crank is from all 1200 engines, the 40hp has the 69mm crank..And i would not use the 64mm on a performance engine, because:

1. the oil galleys are smaller then the original 69mm crank, for higher rpm you need a lot of oil to lubricate....
2. the oil galleys are not x-drilled....

But perhaps someone can told about that point and say it is not to so bad....

Bye
Tom

Thanks for that information, I didnt know that about the 64mm crank, like I said, it would be a learning experience, least I didnt start the build and do it not knowing this. ;D
I was just told on the cal-look forum uh...the other one LOL that a 94x64 would be a fun motor but on the street they werent sure because it was a drag motor back in the day.
Also Ive had some people like I stated above that say these motors didnt actually move till after 4000rpms, but do they mean it was slow until it hit 4k or do they actually mean it didnt move till 4k? If so is there a cam that could change that, or is that all in the gearing, I have a stock tranny I'd have to run for a while though.
Sometime in March I'll start shopping for cheap deals on thesamba, ie pistons,crank ect.Ive sen a few 64mm cranks on thesamba go for 30 bucks, if I grab one of those,send it in to be counterweighted it should be fine for a mild hi perf. motor right, if you can get those counterweighted,not sure.

Waste of time and money. Be smart and build a 1915.

I had something weird happen today, come to find out my boss is a hardcore VW nut and I mentioned a 94x64 combo, an he told me (just like you guys) DONT DO IT! Instead he insists I go for a 1776cc with some Oval Port heads, dual IDA's and the wildest cam I can get for a 1776cc then run a 1.5 fuel sump, and a merged header with stinger (im not using one, no way) and a bosch 009 but I know theres better ignition kits.

The best thing a 64mm crank does is break in two. Raise the compression and you've got a real grenade on your hands.

there are a lot of things to think about when you build a destroked motor.

if you use a 69mm crank and destroke it you will only get to about 65.5mm with a chevy/buick rod.  but if you want to keep it vw  then you will have to have it welded.  that will cost you a ton of money. more than if you have a stroker welded crank made.

Also, if you do have one made make sure the rod journal oil hole is on center or it will be a lot bigger when they are done grinding it.

Head studs will be another pain when the motor is that much narrower especialy if you want a high C/R.

C/R is another thing  the heads will have to be welded up alot to get a lot of C/R

off the shelf header wont fit either.

Thank you Taylor for that good info, I didnt know that stuff.Sucks it narrows the motor I definitively dont want that.I may just go wild  on a 1776 or 1914, not sure yet, whatever I find cheapest on samba is what I'll get startin next month.Im going to buy a part here and therer to make it fit my budget.
 

I knew someone who was trying to experiment with different turbo applications and came up with a 64mm x 94 engine.  The crank was an old Berg unit, I believe, and the pistons were standard Mahle's.  The idea was built around rod ratios and large piston bore.  I think he ran long rods.  He wanted to run big boost numbers and see what happened.  As I recall it ran good enough to run low 11's in a fairly heavy street car.

The car Dave is referring to is a 64x94 fuel injected, intercooled turbo.
Crank is a welded, 69cw that was destroked to 64mm with a porsche journal. Rods are 5.5 carrillo.
Best run to date 10.72 @ 130 at Vegas last October

 

Thats pretty cool, but since the cranks are weak they didnt last long right?

Also Ive decided on a 1776cc after talking to a few people.I know a 1914 is a good option too but Im liking the 1776cc.
Since I was told I can run 48IDA's on a 1776cc, what is the biggest valves in a pair of heads with these carbs you guys would recommend while keeping it someone street worthy but fun at the same.
Thinking of these as and option
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1181

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1323

http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=79

On the last link I posted what are DRLA's? I know these are the manifolds but what carbs?
Cam would be a FK8 maybe unless you guys think I should go better and depending on the cam 1.25 or 1.4:1 rockers, a 1 5/8 merged header and a 1.5 qt fuel sump with some type of ignition.

What you guys think, would it be kinda streetable?

I would go for the wedgies ;D

my engine was a 1804 65x94 as far as i rember i have breated in a few aluim chips since then so the memery is kind of fuzzy  :D. cool littel time bomb thoe.  d stroked 1500 noncross chev jornal p lenght jet tit rods. std maule 94s. i had two sets of heads on this engine 47x37 split ports oem. and SHO 46x38 turbo heads. in both combos lets just say you couldent give it enogf rpm. rpm red line WHATS THAT. good luck to ya if you do build one. D driver well i gusse it could be with some small heads on it and small cam but then your not taking atvantage of its rpm potential so then you should build a 1915 with some CI. these type of small engines have always been expencive to build espesily if you want them to become the high hp buzz saws.  UD.

Ok so what would be better bang for the buck, that 1914 with w125 w/stock rockers and dual 44-48 webers and 40x35 heads or a 1776cc with 48ida with matchport intakes with one of the types of heads I posted above in a previous post and using a FK8 with 1.4:1 rockers?

1915 all the way. cool little packedge. it packs a good punch for low dollar signs.  UD.

so the 1915 with the wedge port heads then, or just standard heads?

if you are going to put any of cb heads on it i would put there 42x37 rnd ports on that engine. smaller port but good airspeed. somthing that you will need with a daily D more snappy and more drivible with the right cam and comp.  UD.

44ifs are good enough to make 180+ hp- save yourself some $$ and don't go with a 48mm carburetor.

*if you have some 48's taking up space in the garage, or want to upgrade the motor later, 48's could be a rational decision on a 1914- just saying 44 webers and 45 dells are good for WAAAAY more h.p. than people think.

True, but it depends on the volume and the rpm the engine is living at. Tiny engines need relatvely big carbs to deliver high end hp, and the other way around for big engines..
The reasons for this is unclear to me, so if someone knows exactly why I would love to hear it.

Well Ive talked to Bewitched a couple times and hes told me about his 1679cc he has.It makes about 100hp and he says its pretty quick for what it is.
He has this done to his motor:
69 crank c/w
Engle w125 cam
CB 044 heads with 40x35.5 ss valves
Fully ported and polished by Pat Downs
Berg double springs
Titanium retainers
lashcaps
1:25 rockers with solid shafts
swifelfeet adjusters
case is full flowed
26mm oilpump with full flow cover
chomo pushrods
CB standard lenght clearanced con.rods(stronger bolts)
12 lbs flywheel
Berg equalizer pulley
009 with pertronix elec.ignition
40mm Dellortos

Id run bigger carbs, diff cam,and 1.4:1 rockers, and have some VW cast heads p&p by DRDracing.
DRD has a Level 3 and a 5 Port job I might get.Which do you guys think would be best for a 1679cc?

DRD Level 3:
For use on VW stock Dual port heads
This style of head porting is for a street car/ off road car with a increase of approx 30% more than stock hp and flow.
 Power output, depending on your combo, power ranges from 75HP to 125HP.
 A full port and polish, small  port, combustion chambers reshaped, intake manifolds matched, fly cut for
 compression, comp valve job, springs shimmed to your cam and rockers, and flow bench tested. This port combo retains bottom end torque, with excellent mid range and high end pull to 6500 rpms and increased
fuel mileage. For use on stock vw castings with stock  intakes an stock exhaust valves.
 Recommended mild cams shafts and mild lift  .400 ~.450 numbers at the rockers.
Flowchart:
http://www.drdracingheads.com/l3fs.html

DRD Level 5
For VW heads or 044 Dual Port Heads
This style of head porting is for a street car/ off road car. Power output, depending on your combo,
power ranges from 145HP to 175HP. This is are best selling package.
A Full port and polish, small D port, 60 CC intake port volume, combustion chambers reshaped, intake manifolds.
matched, fly cut for compression, comp valve job, springs shimmed to your cam and rockers, and flow bench tested
This port combo retains bottom end torque, with excellent mid range and high end pull to 6700~7000
rpms  on pump gas.
For use on vw castings/ 044 castings with 40mm intakes and 35.5mm exhaust valves.
Recommended mild cams shafts and mild lift  .450 ~.550 numbers at the valves.

And there at a good price too.Id like to go with the Level 5 but I don't know if thats overkill.