The Cal-look Lounge

in my racecar was a Oberg-oilfilter fitted. I would like to keep it, but I`m not sure if it realy works compared to a Fram HP1. What do you guys think?

I just brought myself a NOS Oberg in the box - It's going to be fitted to my new "Looker" project

I use a System 1 dam good as you can take out the filter and see what going on. Then give it a good clean put it back in and off you go. This also means one fewer filter in our landfills which is always good. ;D

Hi Helge,

A couple of our Guys are Using Oberg Filters without any Problems, always good to Know what's going on in your Engine!!!!

I would keep it on your Racer!!!

Frank

I'm with Martin on this one, a System 1 is the way to go. I run one and would never run anything else

System Ones also look bitchin when they are detailed! ;D

Cool any photos of a System One that has been detailed.

I use System 1, good to know what's going on inside... Before I used Fram HP1, but they are not that easy to open...

What about these?  Does anybody have any time on one?

(http://images.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/pix/1310304.jpg)

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=364968

Well, I do really like the look of on Good old Oberg...

Frank

here's the one I just brought  :) it looks alittle different to yours

I run one and it works!

Canton/Mecca.  Very good Flow and (8!) Micron ratings.
No by-pass.

The Oberg, System1, Jaycee and Geers filters are the best to use, very little pressure drop, re-usable screens/filters, superb micron ratings.

Fram HP 1's are micky mouse in comparison, why put a $10 HP1 on a $5000 engine! You get what you pay for in life and there is a reason the fram is cheap!

Rob.

I have run a 6" tattletale Oberg for years.  I would highly recommend.  As mentioned above, you always know what's going on inside your engine.  The screen is simple to clean and inspect.  Plus, it won't blow out when cold like the cheap HP1. 

When the engine is cold and oil pressure is at its highest, the increased pressure will cause your light to come on.  Just making sure you knew that and didn't worry. :P

If you are set on a traditional canister type filter, look for the WIX filter #51515R.  Bitchin!

If you want max protection for your engine DON'T use an Oberg, System 1 or any of the 're-usable' billet style oil filters

Yes, they'll show if anything major is breaking down but so will taking a look inside the 3-4 valve cover (a lot quicker and less messy).

The micron rating of a stainless mesh filter isn't good enough to prevent the kind of wear a good quality conventional throw away filter provides. Stainless mesh filters are little more than a sophisticated version of the original stock strainer.

I used a System 1 on the dyno for years but ran it as a pre-filter before routing through a 'proper' oil filter. Recently I quit using the System 1 and reverted to conventional 'throw away' filters.
I cut them open with a filter cutter after each test session to check for abnormal wear... quicker, easier and more convenient than dismantling, cleaning and reassembling the System 1.

In the long term, engines fitted with re-usable filters will see more wear and tear on the bearings and journals than those using paper cartridge filters.

The re-usable/eco claim doesn't quite stack up either... what fluids do you use, where do you dump the mess etc?

A lot of of re-usable, stainless mesh, washable filters with billet housings have appeared on the market in the last couple of years. One of the claimed advantages is lack of a bypass valve. The advertising hype implies regular filters bypass oil at pressures as low as 8psi. What they fail to mention is bypass pressure is DIFFERENTIAL pressure, NOT absolute pressure.
Note the System 1 and Oberg feature a bypass valve.
Maybe the lack of bypass in the billet filters is more a cost saving measure than a performance enhancement  ;)

Don't know the HP1's bypass pressure offhand but it's around 20psi IIRC. To achieve that level of pressure differential across a filter, the engine would be history anyway. The advertising hype used by some of the billet filter people is (for want of a better word) misleading  ::)

There have been quality control issues with the Fram HP1 lately. It appears they've changed method of manufacture. There are a number of good quality alternatives. I've switched to K&N Gold HP-3001. Similar in size to the HP1 with slightly higher burst pressure, lots of surface area and excellent micron rating.

As always SUPERB info from Mr Maher - Thankyou :)

How about Baldwin B253?

Despite what the micron ratings are on the Oberg, they don't filter well. The oil gets dirty way faster. I did an experiment about 15 years ago with the Oberg I had. As usual, the oil was getting real dark way too soon, so I put the HP1 back on and the oil went back to a nice light color. No, the Oberg was NOT loading up and by passing. The paper element simply woks better. The biggest problem I have with the system 1 is that the by-pass is at the place where all the crap accumilates. So, upon start up, the oil is thick , and , of course, goes on by-pass and sucks all the crap back into you engine. And, it , also does not filter as well as a paper element filter. By the way, the System1 will blow out under pressure. Warm up your cars.

I had an Oberg that I ran for years. The Kendall "green" oils was always darkeven after a few hundred miles. I swapped it out for a HP1 and the oil remained nice and golden green much longer. I have a Napa Gold (made by Wix) going on the new motor.

damn, looks like i wasted my money on the System 1....duh

i wonder if they make replacement paper elements for them?

Does anyone use Vix oil filters?

Absolute Micron rating on the oberg can be changed with different screens or you can even run a dual screen kit. So can use a 115 and 28 Screen to trap larger particles in the 115 screen and the real tiny ones in the 28 screen. Also as the Oberg is bolted together there is no chance of blow outs! Afterall Gene Berg recommended Obergs so if they were good enough got him!

The HP1 has a rating of 20 microns:

Q: What is a micron?
A: A micron is a thousandth of a millimeter or a millionth of a meter or .000039 of an inch. Micron is the unit of measure used to determinate the size of particles in a fluid which are filtered out by the filter.


Q: What is the difference between Absolute and Nominal micron rating?
A: Micron rating is the size of particles which are filtered out by filters at a certain efficiency. When this efficiency is at least 98.6%, we speak about absolute micron rating/filtration. Nominal micron rating is just a commercial trick for all efficiencies lower than 98.6%, meaning that for the same micron rating (for ex. 10 µ) in the case of nominal rating, not all particles will be captured in the filter as in the case of absolute micron rating.

So basically if the HP1 stops 20 micron particles for 10% of the time its still a 20 Micron, Where the oberg has to stop 28 Microns 98.6% of the time! Sounds like a no brainer!

Not sure if the System1 uses absolute micron rating or just nominal?

ok. what is the micron rating on conventional paper element filters?

System 1 has 2 screens i think, normal and extra fine....not sure what micron

The Oberg filter has very small filtration surface area. If you run the fine screen it can't flow the required volume. At that point the bypass opens due to large pressure differential between inlet and outlet. Now you have ZERO filtration  :o

Only time I've seen filter blowouts is when people use too big an oil pump/rpm the engine when cold/oil pressure boost springs etc etc


Gene Berg took the time to share a ton of great info. Most of it still valid today. Unfortunately he's not around anymore to do our thinking for us.
We're allowed to modify our opinions as we acquire further knowledge and evidence.
Some people still think the earth is flat, less than 6000 years old and was made in a week. Says so in a book somewhere.... doesn't make 'em right!  ::)

Someone earlier in this thread mentioned the Oberg tattle-tale version.... a light comes on when the bypass opens
Great! it tells you when the filter ISN'T working  :o

OK... so you fit the fine screen along with 'tattle-tale'. Race your car down the track and see the light's on for most of the pass because the screen can't flow enough volume of oil. Each time that light comes on your engine is consuming crud.

Maybe the answer is buy the version without the light and live in ignorance?  ;)

Cut open a conventional filter, spread out the paper cartridge and measure the surface area. Compare it to an Oberg screen. Absolutely no comparison.
You'd have to run a stack of Obergs in parallel to achieve the same filtration AND flow qualities of a good spin-on filter.

System 1 is better than Oberg in this respect due to the pleated design (lots more surface area). But like all stainless mesh filters, if you use a very fine micron screen, they can't flow the volume/bypass opens and round we go again

Look, I'm not on some kind of anti Oberg/System 1/billet/whatever crusade....
someone asked the question and I'm contributing factual information based on physics and reality - not marketing hype and sales talk

If people want to run Obergs because they look cool, cost lots of money etc, fine.
I used an Oberg on my first race car thinking I was doing the right thing. I too thought it was letting me see what was going on in my engine. What I didn't realise, it was preventing me seeing the small stuff it CAN'T catch

Obergs and other similar products no doubt have their place but if your primary concern is taking the microscopic particles that can damage bearings/jourmals/pistons etc out of circulation, they're not the best product on the market for that application.

If used as a pre-filter before a proper filter you can still play detective and have a look inside to see how much silicone your engine builder used  ;)

===============================================

Link to filter tests and recommendations: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/opinions.html)

I allways use MAN filters oil stays clear very long.
Michael

I tried a System 1, noticed oil and rocker chambers looked odd, after a short period of time. Even when I lost a Berg cam (but running HP1) my rocker chambers didn't look as bad as they did running the System 1.

I'm an advocate of the Canton-Mecca, not a stainless mesh media in these, but a cartridge, similar to something found in MBZ or BMW motor. A friend that raced midgets turned me on to these. A.G. Bell plugs them in his various tuner books. I don't have the micron or GPH ratings, but you can look at their website. When I don't have cartridges for the Canton on the shelf, I run the HP1 or the Baldwin.
Nice thing about Canton is you can disassemble the canister, pull the cartridge and unroll to inspect.

 8)

Those are nice and that is not a bad price.

--louis

John,

Its probably "- a Cal Look thing - we woudn't understand"  :D

Canton filters down to 8 microns and flows so well there's no need for a bypass valve

That's what I call a PROPER filter

Filter element isn't re-usable but replacements are reasonably priced

Gets my vote  8) ;)

I'm surprised how unknown the Canton is in the VW drag scene.
Among the circle track guys, they're like a pre-requisite.

Some good info on this thread. Thanks to all involved ;)

http://www.cmfilters.com/

Thanks for the tips on the Canton filter.

What's the preferred filter set-up - the remote mount like the #1281 or the spin-on filter like the #1284?

I found this with some pricing and replacement filter info:
http://s2.pegasusautoracing.com/2008/069.pdf

If you've already plumbed a conventional style filter, #1284 is a straight swap - screws straight in (3/4 x 16)

Starting from scratch you have the option...
#1281 saves having to buy a regular oil filter mount but you'll need to add in a couple of hose adapters eg #12 to #8
It's a little more work to access the filter element - easiest to remove the unit from the car

http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=25-262

(http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/getimage.php?id=25-262)

25-262 - CM -15 BILLET SPIN-ON FILTER 3/4-16 (25-262)

The 4-1/4" tall BILLET spin-on filter has 3/4"-16 thread and a standard o-ring. It accepts CM’s -15 2-5/8" high synthetic fiber depth filter element which flows 15 GPM of hot engine oil with no loss of pressure. It has a 3" dia. heavy duty light weight billet aluminum housing and a blue anodized finish. 
Our Price: $99.60 



seems to be the same as John described, p/n 1284, but this has a diff part number.

Good filters I think VW even recomment MANN filters.


John I understand what your saying about the pitfalls of the oberg and other cleanable filters that bypass under high pressure, but disposable canister filters do this too!
Not sure what F1 teams use but I am sure its not a HP1 or similar! My main point here is for people to stay clear of HP1's they are not good!

Now the Canton that looks like a nice bit of kit.

Rob.

Agree on the HP1 - they used to be a good quality filter but like so many things nowadays, you can't rely on a part to have the same quality several years on just because it carries the same name.
Suppliers and manufacturers get swallowed up by large companies. Corners are cut to lower costs. They rely on 'branding' to push profits up, while quality goes down.

Only way they'll learn the error of their ways is if the consumer hits them where it hurts i.e. stop buying their piss poor products and spend your money with the good guys  ;)


I doubt F1 has used a paper element filter (let alone a washable strainer!) for years
http://www.magnom.com/index.php/tech/howitworks/ (http://www.magnom.com/index.php/tech/howitworks/)
Removes particles smaller than 1 micron!  :o

 8)
What more can i say ! I'm using the Canton spin-on (with removable bottom plate) for years. No more
System One or Fram for me. Although i use the System One as a pre-filter for break-ins.

PS. Canton uses the same filtering medium for their fuel filters as well....

Thanks for the Link !

If you just would like to swap from HP1 ( 3/4 - 16)  there's the Canton # 25-462.
Unfortunately they do not make the removable 4 bolt bottom - filter anymore.
 :-[

The Canton oil-filter with four bolts at the bottom is back again.

Where did you order yours Harry?
directly from the US?

Yep, no problems with shipping either.

Harry, which vendor did you use? i have the System 1 now, just remove and bolt on?

I have used HP1 and System 1

I have now changed to Canton, I have had to turn down the Preshure on the pump as the prshure drop accross the media is much less. Its also a lot smaller than the system1 set up.

You have to bare in mind im using a Peterson V8 style of pump on my car

as for looking at the filter, once its been in the oil for a few weeks you can pull the filter apart and roll out the media, its amazing what it catches!


Canton all the way for me now, can't recomend them enough (and there cheeper than system 1's)

canton mecca on street car.. Cause jim rattto said so....A little painting done to matching color of inset brm spoke area.  Hangs a little low but not dangerous. My Baja has k and n spin on. Have dealt with many oberg motors and like to be able open it and see what's going on, rod brng, shop rag lint, rtv.. messy deal  though, depends where you mount it, sometimes can unbolt then let it hang into a drain pan . bill

As usual nicely done.  Any chance on getting Clyde to weld up a couple of sumps like yours?  ;)

i use system one for break in (the same one on every engine i build), after checking i use a paper filter afterwards - with the berg relief cover i cant blow it

Phil, that would be dougs work not clyde. Doug is so meticulous in his work. I am so fortunate to have him close by. Sump holds alot of oil, it gets VERY warm here in nevada , no over heating issues. I believe it's design helps, along with deck lid propped, thermostat controlled fan, 9.2 comp. etc . Maybe if enough people requested ? 

Directly from Canton / Mecca.
Just remove and bolt on.

How about CSP oilfilter? Is it bad as rest of billet washable filters? I have one, but i havent used it.


http://www.machine7.com/section.php?xSec=102

(http://www.machine7.com/shopimages/products/normal/250-dscf5150.jpg)

You just can't beat 8 Micron filtration (without by-pass). My 2 cts.

I've been using the WIX 51515R filter.  This website led me to it, along with the recommendation of others as well.  When the filter is cut apart, you can see how many paper pleats are used......more pleats = more surface area = better filtration.  Also, some filters, such as the HP! from Fram, use a plastic bypass valve.  Plastic gets hard and brittle with heat.  The last thing you want is a chunk of plastic in your motor.  The Wix filter's bypass is made of rubber, which will hold up to heat better. 

Here's some good reading for you guys.   ;)

http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html#wix (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilters/reference.html#wix)

Update for my stupid mistake: The correct part# must be 25-464, it has 3/4 x 16 thread and the endcap is removable with 4 bolts.
My apologies for the error. (Thanks PUPJOINT).

25-464 - CM 6.25" BILLET SPIN-ON FILTER 3/4" -16 THREAD 2 5/8 O-RING (25-464)

NEW!
This 6.25" tall billet spin-on filter has 3/4"-16 threads and a standard size o-ring. Like all CM filters it features a billet aluminum body built for strength and durability for a lifetime of use. Heat sink ribs add to filter's functionality and aggressive aesthetic. The filters bottom cap is easily removed with four bolts for filter element inspection and replacement. A CM 4-5/8" tall synthetic fiber filter element which flows 45 GPM of hot engine oil with no loss of pressure and filters down to 8 microns comes preinstalled

Been using one for 8 years now and it saved my engine when a valve spring broke and the pushrod chewed up the aluminum Pauter rocker and  dumped shavings in the oil. Nothing got past the filter and after a few kerosene flushes the engine was fine.

(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r172/oldnslow/186_8689.jpg)

Like i wrote earlier: Canton uses the same filter-medium for their fuel filters. You might change the o-ring for Viton...

Ok, time to change filter ;)      Information is correct about what CM filter fits to vw filter mounts?

I like the CSP,Jay Cee and Geers filter. Easy to clean and works nice-

Udo

This is much too long if you want to go racing .

Udo

Ok, I am convinced after reading this,
But is there a version that fits right on the Type 4 filter mount?

Regards Edgar

got a canton on order plus 6 elements.  Anybody want a spare element?

Just let me know.