The Cal-look Lounge

The first thing I notice about the CB model pictured is, you will have to remove the transaxle bracket to change the oil.
Whereas the original Empi model has a hole in the bracket for that purpose.

I ran one of CB's in the 1980's and it broke one day hurrying to work. Sparks flying.
Probably my fault.

Anyway, I run the SAW one now, and I like the way my car throttle steers through Box Canyon up here in Canoga Park. You only have to remove leaf spring portion to drain gear oil. Not bracket. Plus you can shim the carriers up to stiffen spring if you so deisre.... :)

The EMPI/CB ones seem bass ackwards to me as they pull down on the axles rather than pushing them up as the SAW unit does. Right???

If they were bass ackwards then how come they worked so well?  I have had one on my car for about 15 years and would never go back.  I even have a spare sittin' in the garage.  I was going to put it on my wife's '61, but don't know if I will ever finish that.  I love mine.  It is especially good on long high speed sweeping turns like exiting or getting onto the freeway.  It really calms down the back end.

The 1967 bug has a Z bar built into it, which you can shim. The camber compensator would just duplicate it. If you read up on how the compensator works, it needs to push and pull. That is why the EMPI and CB one are better than the SAW. IMHO

I'm about to install the CB one.
I bought it because I was ordering some other parts from CB at the time and because it's cheap.
I thing the basic design (original EMPI and CB) seems to be OK, what worries me is that EMPI one had a different design of link (pivot point) between the bar and the mounting plate.
CB's is simple and cheap. Maybe it works (I hope), we'll see on the car, but it seams that it there is little place for the bar to roll before it hits its mounting plate, comparing to original EMPI.
The other thing is that even if the design is identical, like in case of EMPI/MrBug and sway a way, the crucial factor here is stiffness of the bar. Something that is difficult to check and compare.

here's my NOS on the 61  ;)

 ;)

the only thing i found in the past is that they do not fit built boxes with HD side plates!

I use a speedwell camber
found in nos and fit in 10 minutes on the ghia
really nice feeling on road with this part
a must have for any bug/ghia
I believe that the empi is similar on look and quality
don't have pictures sorry

Good topic, I've been wondering about these for my car, as well.  Not sure if you saw the guy on thesamba.com selling refurbished EMPIs.  Don't know how the cost of one of those compares to a modern version.

Ooops, I forgot they were that expensive!  I only looked at the ad once...now I remember why.   :o

Well, that's why I ask. Could someone explain to me the engineering behind each design??



Found out that one the hard way too!!

They work in an exactly the same way. They connect the wheels on the opposite sides acting contrariwise to anti-roll bar. If one wheel goes up, the other goes down. The fact that one of them pushes both the wheels up a little doesn't matter. 

For those people with heavy duty sidecovers.
Empi had an earlier bracket that mounted to the framehorns, not the transaxle.

this might be a daft question but does this set up help or hinder at the top end of the dragstrip when coming off the power?

It should help. It prevents both wheels from going down at the same time (=rear end of the car going up). Of course, only to a certain degree, depending of the stiffness of the bar.

Sorry to hijack slightly but am i right in thinking that when shimming a factory 68> swing axle Z bar you put the shims just above number 21 on the diagram just below the rubber stops cup? Or do they go below the rubber stop?
(http://www.vwheritage.com/diagrams/P24-2.jpg)

Thanks.

If you want to take the play out of the z-bar and therefore make it work sooner, then you would shim under the rubber stop i.e. in the cup.
If you are trying to limit the axles downward movement then shimming below the cup would achieve this.
Remember the z-bar is only there to help stiffen the rear suspension when under load, and in my opinion neither a camber compensator or roll bar.

Thanks Gibber. At the moment I have got small anti roll bar bushes shimming under the stop. I've tried shimming below the cup too but it doesn't seem to do much to reduce downwards suspension travel. I'm thinking of adding an adjustable limit stop to the lower spring plate stop which would solve the positive camber problem.

 :)

I took stock Type 1 rear axle subbers and sawed them down (just so there was an opening at each end) and stakced them under the stock Z bar bumpers. Cheap and easy.
Then I broke my Z bar...  I think; a) it was shimmed too tightly and b) I drove it too hard too often.

Any advice on camber compensators that can be mounted to a box with HD Side covers?

I would just have the side cover machined down a bit where the spring perch mounts. It doesnt need much to work.

I know, but like you I found out about it too late. Now I don´t have the time to take the box out,  I´ll miss this years Bug-Run in Sweden which is one of the very few events that has 1/4 mile racing in scandinavia...  :'(

cut and weld the mount.

I've heard that there can be problems when fitting a camber compensator to a '67> swing axle beetle with a Z bar due to the ends of the compensator fouling on the Z bar cup mounts.

Has anyone had any experience of this?

I'm considering buying the CB performance item marked as B in the photo below and i'd like to be sure it will fit!

(http://www.vwheritage.com/diagrams/AC5019615.jpg)

Thanks.  :)

                                                I put one on a friends 67 with z bar still on, and I seem to remember using one that I had for a 356 porsche. It had a much shorter torsion bar and fit really well.

Thanks John. Thats just what I wanted to hear.  ;D

Putting a camber compensator on my car really improved the handling, also helped reduced wheel hop a little bit.

Sorry for taking it a bit OT, but could anyone help me out with a correct rubber mount for my empi/speedwell compensator? I just have a rubber disk in there now, to thick. Can't get it out to drain trans oil. Need to remove the entire bracket...

the A type will fit as well as the cups are on the sides and it wont interfere. i am not sure if the B type fits as i think the cups and war will move to the same point when cornering.

and i have a question myself. i have installed the Crown sideplates on the trans and they are a bit wider as the original ones. so i can't fit the camber comp. i have 28mm torsion bars on the type3 now as well. will it change handleling or do i need to a way to make it fit again?

 ;)

                                         I always ran EMPI's frame style mount to avoid the issue altogether. I never wanted to grind on the sidecover. Plan B was to fab extensions to make the standard mount wider, but never had to , obviously. I always liked the frame mounts better as there would be far less movement than a mount attached to the trans, especialy if the trans was floating on rubber mounts.

do you have a pic off one of these mounted to the frame. it sounds like a good option. mine is always in the way if you have to work on the car (set suspensionhight, new springplates,... and now the gearbox leaks as always take it off and the gaskets let oil through. and if i only remove the crossbar you can't drain the oil on the bugpack ones. 
so i am open to suggestions to change it for a better CC.

hey do bother these do the same job?

as they look to do different things? ???

cheers for your help ;D

yes they do lol  :D

im guessing no one has decided which is best thou?  ???

cheers  ;D

(A) could not work the same, because (B) would work like the original and be pre loaded, pulling on the axles, like EMPI's.While (A) would not have the ability to pull the inside axle down in a turn .

I have to agree with John.  Of course I am predjudiced.  I have been using (B) for years and let me tell you, you can feel the difference on the road.  Where I noticed it the most is in a long sweeping turn while accelerating onto a freeway.

Long freeway sweepers are where I always seem to see the biggest difference too. The car just feels planted.

Exactly!

OK, resurrection a really old thread here. But I've installed my SAW camber compensator a few years ago. And a few weeks ago I discovered the odd clunking I can hear when slowly driving on uneven roads. It seems the urethane ends of the camber compensator interfere with my rear shocks. Has anyone had this too?

The only thing I can come up with is that my rear axle are (all the way) forward. But they're not and I had my car aligned when put the built gearbox in. The shocks are white KYB so not bigger or wider than usual either.

I had the same problem on a stock ghia. I ground of some of the urethane where it touched. I used a belt sander.

http://356enterprises.com/suspension-and-brakes-porsche-356/ (http://356enterprises.com/suspension-and-brakes-porsche-356/) and look for camber regulator

I am going to try one of these:
https://www.kerscher-tuning.de/kaefer/detail.php?id=204 (https://www.kerscher-tuning.de/kaefer/detail.php?id=204)